University Town Center

[scottk]

Wrong. There is plenty of room next to existing athletic and parking facilities on-campus. UNP is a horrible place for the arena.

From an operational stand point this seems to make sense. Parking, media infrastructure, campus offices, and the ability to use the arena for on-campus gatherings that are both academic and extra curricular in nature. It may not be the exact location, but in the general area near the football stadium makes more sense to me than UNP.

Other SEC Schools are consistent with the arena location...
Arkansas - Bud Walton Arena - On Campus
Alabama - Coleman Coliseum - On Campus
Aubrun - Neville Arena - On Campus
Florida - O'Connell Center - On Campus
Georgia - Stegeman Coliseum - On Campus
Kentucky - Rupp Arena - Off Campus by a few blocks
LSU - Maravich Center - On Campus
MSU - Humphrey Coliseum - On Campus
Mizzou - Mizzou Arena - On Campus
Ole Miss - Black Pavilion - On Campus
South Carolina - Colonial Life Arena - On Campus
Tennessee - Thompson–Boling Arena- On Campus
Texas A&M - Reed Arena - On Campus
Vanderbilt - Memorial Gymnasium - On Campus

[bison34]

From an operational stand point this seems to make sense. Parking, media infrastructure, campus offices, and the ability to use the arena for on-campus gatherings that are both academic and extra curricular in nature. If not be the exact location, but in the general area.

Other SEC Schools are consistent with the arena location...
Arkansas - Bud Walton Arena - On Campus
Alabama - Coleman Coliseum - On Campus
Aubrun - Neville Arena - On Campus
Florida - O'Connell Center - On Campus
Georgia - Stegeman Coliseum - On Campus
Kentucky - Rupp Arena - Off Campus by a few blocks
LSU - Maravich Center - On Campus
MSU - Humphrey Coliseum - On Campus
Mizzou - Mizzou Arena - On Campus
Ole Miss - Black Pavilion - On Campus
South Carolina - Colonial Life Arena - On Campus
Tennessee - Thompson–Boling Arena- On Campus
Texas A&M - Reed Arena - On Campus
Vanderbilt - Memorial Gymnasium - On Campus

Then get someone to pay for an on-campus arena.

[jedicurt]

Then get someone to pay for an on-campus arena.

exactly... it's really easy... if any of these people want to get a group together and come up with a few hundred million, then they can get it built on campus exactly where they want it.

[scottk]

exactly... it's really easy... if any of these people want to get a group together and come up with a few hundred million, then they can get it built on campus exactly where they want it.

Oklahoma State did this 25 years ago with essentially a grass roots campaign when they raised $50 million in 1999-2000 for expanding/renovating Gallagher-Iba Arena. At the time it was an easy sell to donors and alums as OSU Basketball was a hot ticket, won consistently, coming off of the 1995 Final Four Team...and there was no Thunder to compete for basketball dollars and OSU Football was average at best before the Les Miles/Mike Gundy era.

I don't think OU Basketball is in the same position right now to go on a fundraising campaign to the level they need for a new facility?

[jedicurt]

Oklahoma State did this 25 years ago with essentially a grass roots campaign when they raised $50 million in 1999-2000 for expanding/renovating Gallagher-Iba Arena. At the time it was an easy sell to donors and alums as OSU Basketball was a hot ticket, won consistently, coming off of the 1995 Final Four Team...and there was no Thunder to compete for basketball dollars and OSU Football was average at best before the Les Miles/Mike Gundy era.

I don't think OU Basketball is in the same position right now to go on a fundraising campaign to the level they need for a new facility?

exactly. which is why we are where we are now... with the only option being the one on the table or playing in LNC for the next 15-20 years... that is what we keep saying... but everyone talks about how they want an on campus arena, and that is why i just say they have to pony up the money to do so. that is what it would take, and they just seem to think that they can wish that option into existence.

[Rover]

Oklahoma State did this 25 years ago with essentially a grass roots campaign when they raised $50 million in 1999-2000 for expanding/renovating Gallagher-Iba Arena. At the time it was an easy sell to donors and alums as OSU Basketball was a hot ticket, won consistently, coming off of the 1995 Final Four Team...and there was no Thunder to compete for basketball dollars and OSU Football was average at best before the Les Miles/Mike Gundy era.

I don't think OU Basketball is in the same position right now to go on a fundraising campaign to the level they need for a new facility?

Where else were they going to put it in Stillwater? There wasn’t and still is not anything comparable to move it to there. It’s an inane comparison.

[BG918]

Where else were they going to put it in Stillwater? There wasn’t and still is not anything comparable to move it to there. It’s an inane comparison.

I always wished OU could’ve done the same thing to McCasland Fieldhouse. Gallagher-Iba is still one of the best arenas in college basketball.

[BG918]

exactly. which is why we are where we are now... with the only option being the one on the table or playing in LNC for the next 15-20 years... that is what we keep saying... but everyone talks about how they want an on campus arena, and that is why i just say they have to pony up the money to do so. that is what it would take, and they just seem to think that they can wish that option into existence.

There is an another option - use TIF to fund infrastructure for the on-campus arena and have OU retain ownership, instead of renting from Norman. I’d rather wait 5-10 years than rush into building an arena next to a bunch of chain restaurants by the interstate.

[scottk]

Where else were they going to put it in Stillwater? There wasn’t and still is not anything comparable to move it to there. It’s an inane comparison.

In the 90's when OSU Basketball in Stillwater was king and Gallagher-Iba was 60 years old, there were talks of building an off-campus arena in west Stillwater. Gary Sparks, an OSU alum, and architect heard plans of this and was able to meet with eventual athletic director Terry Don Phillips to propose the renovation of the current space given the building's history. Hindsight, OSU probably wishes they didn't double the size of the arena, as it is hard to fill up in 2024 and average attendance is right around the original arena capacity of 6300. However, all of the adjacent facilities that were built under that roof really elevated OSU's Athletic Program and started the eventual push for Lewis Field to be upgraded.

https://www.ocolly.com/big12sports/t...11e48f635.html

As for OU and Lloyd Noble, the way it was constructed really prevents any meaningful renovation.

Foster Pavillon at Baylor was $212 million and funded about 50% by one donor. While on the other side of I-35, it is still walkable from Baylor's campus. for the same reason McClane Stadium replaced Floyd Casey Stadium which was about 3 miles south of their campus.

[jedicurt]

There is an another option - use TIF to fund infrastructure for the on-campus arena and have OU retain ownership, instead of renting from Norman. I’d rather wait 5-10 years than rush into building an arena next to a bunch of chain restaurants by the interstate.

So you think the city should pay for it, but not own it? that would never happen. if the City is going to be involved, then they would have to have some ownership or ROI.

and that's fine that you would rather wait 5-10 years. but then dont' complain with we keep losing recruits to schools with better facilities.

I personally don't want to wait, and say that the only option on the table is better than doing nothing.

[BG918]

So you think the city should pay for it, but not own it? that would never happen. if the City is going to be involved, then they would have to have some ownership or ROI.

and that's fine that you would rather wait 5-10 years. but then dont' complain with we keep losing recruits to schools with better facilities.

I personally don't want to wait, and say that the only option on the table is better than doing nothing.

Use TIF for infrastructure related to the new arena i.e. rebuilding Brooks for better access, new sidewalks, lighting, etc. There are also city costs involved with the future OU rail station at Brooks as part of the RTA rail line from Edmond-Norman - another benefit of the OU campus site vs. UNP.

[Jersey Boss]

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/...a-01hzmsrv7dxx

Ownership of the arena is still a pending subject; While the University of Oklahoma Foundation currently owns the land, "it is not exactly clear yet who will own and operate the arena once constructed," said Guy Patton, CEO of the Foundation.

Great deal for a university that mismanages assets. Norman takes the risk on providing the funds while OU and the developers take the profits.

This TIF deal will be unlike the ones in OKC. These captures sales taxes and property taxes, not just property taxes. Sales taxes are what pays for local services. So this proposed district will benefit from all the services of fire, police, infrastructure without paying a cent, for 25 years. Sounds fair and smart

[jedicurt]

Use TIF for infrastructure related to the new arena i.e. rebuilding Brooks for better access, new sidewalks, lighting, etc. There are also city costs involved with the future OU rail station at Brooks as part of the RTA rail line from Edmond-Norman - another benefit of the OU campus site vs. UNP.

first, the city of norman isn't going to do a TIF for something that is regional when they would only get a small benefit... secondly, i'm not exactly sure you understand what a TIF district is, because there would have to be things that generate that tax in the area where they are looking at using that money.

and third... the university has no plans to build there... it's not an option on their mind. so they aren't just going to change their mind and do so now.... you are not talking about a reality that isn't possible for decades.

[jedicurt]

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/...a-01hzmsrv7dxx

Ownership of the arena is still a pending subject; While the University of Oklahoma Foundation currently owns the land, "it is not exactly clear yet who will own and operate the arena once constructed," said Guy Patton, CEO of the Foundation.

Great deal for a university that mismanages assets. Norman takes the risk on providing the funds while OU and the developers take the profits.

This TIF deal will be unlike the ones in OKC. These captures sales taxes and property taxes, not just property taxes. Sales taxes are what pays for local services. So this proposed district will benefit from all the services of fire, police, infrastructure without paying a cent, for 25 years. Sounds fair and smart

But this still works out for the City of Norman, because the project isn't just the arena, so even if OU gets all the profits from the arena itself (a win for them) the city will still get all the sales tax still from things purchased at the arena, as well as the surround developments that happen because of this plan, and the property tax of those buildings as well.

[Jersey Boss]

But this still works out for the City of Norman, because the project isn't just the arena, so even if OU gets all the profits from the arena itself (a win for them) the city will still get all the sales tax still from things purchased at the arena, as well as the surround developments that happen because of this plan, and the property tax of those buildings as well.

But for 25 years Norman gets no sales taxes yet still provides city services tax free. In 2008 the city faced huge cuts when taxes decreased yet had to service the TIF there at the time. So in 25 years when taxes are collected what is the break even point for the city? Don't forget Norman gets sales tax fom the LNC now. So that goes bye bye
Also property taxes won't go to Norman. That is a county revenue source.

[jedicurt]

But for 25 years Norman gets no sales taxes yet still provides city services tax free. In 2008 the city faced huge cuts when taxes decreased yet had to service the TIF there at the time. So in 25 years when taxes are collected what is the break even point for the city?
Also property taxes won't go to Norman. That is a county revenue source.

But this is already land that isn't collecting any Sales tax. it's vacant land owned by the university. The city is already providing some services for this land and already getting no revenue from it, it terms of fire, police, etc.

[bison34]

But for 25 years Norman gets no sales taxes yet still provides city services tax free. In 2008 the city faced huge cuts when taxes decreased yet had to service the TIF there at the time. So in 25 years when taxes are collected what is the break even point for the city? Don't forget Norman gets sales tax fom the LNC now. So that goes bye bye
Also property taxes won't go to Norman. That is a county revenue source.

Well, right now, it's an empty area...

And are you sure it's 100% of all taxes on that area for 25 years?

[Jersey Boss]

But this is already land that isn't collecting any Sales tax. it's vacant land owned by the university. The city is already providing some services for this land and already getting no revenue from it, it terms of fire, police, etc.

Nor is the city on the hook for a $600M note right now. To say the area would not grow organically is speculation

[BG918]

first, the city of norman isn't going to do a TIF for something that is regional when they would only get a small benefit... secondly, i'm not exactly sure you understand what a TIF district is, because there would have to be things that generate that tax in the area where they are looking at using that money.

and third... the university has no plans to build there... it's not an option on their mind. so they aren't just going to change their mind and do so now.... you are not talking about a reality that isn't possible for decades.

There is a Campus Corner TIF district which could be extended toward the east side of the OU campus. There will likely be some large student housing projects built in the area east of Trout and north of Brooks to the RR tracks within the next 5 years (I know of at least one project that will be 7 stories and 400 beds).

This is part of a larger Transit-Oriented Development around the future OU rail station - downtown Norman is the other TOD. This would fund infrastructure improvements in this area which combined with the student housing area south of Lindsey will be home to 5000+ students, all within a 5-10 min walk of the arena.

[jedicurt]

Nor is the city on the hook for a $600M note right now. To say the area would not grow organically is speculation

Based upon how long the land has been available and how slowly development has occurred, it is even more speculative to think that it will be developed anytime in the next 15 years, it hasn't in the previous 15.

[jedicurt]

There is a Campus Corner TIF district which could be extended toward the east side of the OU campus. There will likely be some large student housing projects built in the area east of Trout and north of Brooks to the RR tracks within the next 5 years (I know of at least one project that will be 7 stories and 400 beds).

This is part of a larger Transit-Oriented Development around the future OU rail station - downtown Norman is the other TOD. This would fund infrastructure improvements in this area which combined with the student housing area south of Lindsey will be home to 5000+ students, all within a 5-10 min walk of the arena.

the Campus Corner TIF already has it's money allocated for projects for quite some time, so now you just want to divert the funds from that and not go through with those promised projects? lets also not forget that the regional transit authority is still in it's early stages, there is no guarantee when, or even still if it will ever come to fruition. so you are basing all of your opinions on the hopes of what might come. And once again lastly... the University doesn't seem to have any interest in putting it there unless outside money comes in for a donation specific to that. Once again, your suggestion is all based upon a pipe-dream that isn't real in the current world. the only two options on the table, unless a group of investors want to come together with hundreds of millions of dollars to donate for your project, are UNP or stay in the LNC. so unless you are sitting on a massive amount of money, your dream just isn't going to happen, accept it.

[bison34]

Nor is the city on the hook for a $600M note right now. To say the area would not grow organically is speculation

We have almost 20 years of it sitting empty as proof.

[jedicurt]

There is a Campus Corner TIF district which could be extended toward the east side of the OU campus. There will likely be some large student housing projects built in the area east of Trout and north of Brooks to the RR tracks within the next 5 years (I know of at least one project that will be 7 stories and 400 beds).

This is part of a larger Transit-Oriented Development around the future OU rail station - downtown Norman is the other TOD. This would fund infrastructure improvements in this area which combined with the student housing area south of Lindsey will be home to 5000+ students, all within a 5-10 min walk of the arena.

the Campus Corner TIF already has it's money allocated for projects for quite some time, so now you just want to divert the funds from that and not go through with those promised projects? lets also not forget that the regional transit authority is still in it's early stages, there is no guarantee when, or even still if it will ever come to fruition. so you are basing all of your opinions on the hopes of what might come. And once again lastly... the University doesn't seem to have any interest in putting it there unless outside money comes in for a donation specific to that. Once again, your suggestion is all based upon a pipe-dream that isn't real in the current world. the only two options on the table, unless a group of investors want to come together with hundreds of millions of dollars to donate for your project, are UNP or stay in the LNC. so unless you are sitting on a massive amount of money, your dream just isn't going to happen, accept it.

[onthestrip]

Well, right now, it's an empty area...

And are you sure it's 100% of all taxes on that area for 25 years?

Yes. Everything within the large TIF area will have all new property taxes and sales taxes go towards the arena costs for 25 years. The current UNP is getting close to filling in and development will naturally come north to this TIF area, with or without an arena. If this passes all the property taxes and sales taxes from this natural development will be paying for the arena rather than going to the local school district, city of Norman, public safety. etc.

[onthestrip]

Of course it has mostly remained empty as the areas closer to main roads (with exits of I35) are developed. If there is no arena you will still see this area develop over the next decade.