University Town Center

[Rover]

norman doesn't like OU even though it is why norman exists ..

Who is this you claim represents Norman? Norman isn't an entity with opinions. And the citizens of Norman don't hate OU. There may be some who think they represent everyone else and are glad to tilt with the windmills, but most know what the soul and economic engine of Norman is. Are some jealous? Sure. Are some anti intellectual and anti universities because of their politics? Of course. But Normanites as a rule embrace OU and the lifestyle it contributes too.

BTW, there are outliers in Stillwater that feel the same way ... they resent OSU. It's just silly. And, if your name suggests you are in or in love with Boulder, the same is true with CU and Boulder.

[BoulderSooner]

Who is this you claim represents Norman? Norman isn't an entity with opinions. And the citizens of Norman don't hate OU. There may be some who think they represent everyone else and are glad to tilt with the windmills, but most know what the soul and economic engine of Norman is. Are some jealous? Sure. Are some anti intellectual and anti universities because of their politics? Of course. But Normanites as a rule embrace OU and the lifestyle it contributes too.

BTW, there are outliers in Stillwater that feel the same way ... they resent OSU. It's just silly. And, if your name suggests you are in or in love with Boulder, the same is true with CU and Boulder.

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

[FighttheGoodFight]

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

Who on the city council hates OU?

[Pete]

It's the classic Town vs. Gown tension that exists in every college town.

From what I've observed, OU has worked really hard with economic development in Norman, especially due to University Town Center, as they owned all the land (and still own a huge chunk).

This whole Team Norman collaboration was formed to adapt and take advantage of the new SEC ties. That group has been a huge part of getting this project back on track.

[jedicurt]

going back to even the early 2000's... (probably earlier) almost every City of Norman Committee had a connection with OU. i sat on the City of Norman Weather Industry Development Committee. it was comprised of people from the City of Norman and many people from OU. i'm sure this was occurring long before i was there in the early 2000's. as is usually the case with claims like this... the whole Norman hates OU theory, is not based in any reality.

[onthestrip]

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

These city councilors do have constituents to listen to, not just Harroz and Castiglione. I bet if you took it to the vote of the people it might not pass. It seems the only people who think this is a slam dunk of a deal are big OU fans and want a shiny new arena regardless of who pays for it.

[Jersey Boss]

The most vocal proponents are folks who do not live in Norman. As far as no opposition to a plethora of TIFS in OKC, who cares? Different cultures. To borrow a popular bumper sticker, Don't OKC my Norman

[Rover]

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

I am sorry, but they don't represent the THOUGHTS and FEELINGS if the individuals in the community. That isn't the role of government. A few people in a few seats do not do the thinking for the 130,000 Norman citizens. And the city council people don't all despise the university anyway, btw. I hate mindless broad brush characterizations anyway.

[mugofbeer]

I am sorry, but they don't represent the THOUGHTS and FEELINGS if the individuals in the community. That isn't the role of government. A few people in a few seats do not do the thinking for the 130,000 Norman citizens.

I guess there is no such thing as a representative government then.

[PhiAlpha]

It's hard to understand the strong backlash against this TIF where OKC has given away billions (yes, with a 'b') with much more to come, and nobody seems bothered in the least.

Exactly

[Rover]

I guess there is no such thing as a representative government then.

You are confused about what government is and don’t acknowledge the fact that elected representatives don’t necessarily represent what everyone thinks on all issues. It doesn’t take near a majority of the population to elect someone, just a rabid section of the small % of people who actually vote. Citizens of Norman don’t hate OU.

[Jersey Boss]

an 80/20 split what are you talking about .... last year the arena was 100% funding with the tif dollars .. now it is only less then 70% funded with tif dollars .. an improvement ..

the city is not the one building this .. and it is not taking local resources .. no matter how many time you say it is

It is taking local resources though. Norman captures sales tax from all the purchases at the LNC. Norman will lose this revenue for 25 years
No matter how much you say it won't cost Norman, it will.

[Jersey Boss]

You are confused about what government is and don’t acknowledge the fact that elected representatives don’t necessarily represent what everyone thinks on all issues. It doesn’t take near a majority of the population to elect someone, just a rabid section of the small % of people who actually vote. Citizens of Norman don’t hate OU.

If the local government feels this is such a great deal, put it on the ballot for voter approval.

[jdross1982]

It is taking local resources though. Norman captures sales tax from all the purchases at the LNC. Norman will lose this revenue for 25 years
No matter how much you say it won't cost Norman, it will.

The city is still getting 50% of all INCREASE in ad valorem taxes and keep 40% of all Sales taxes all of which wouldn't have been paid without the development. But you have shown nothing but bias against it and that is your right. Just speak facts.

[Jersey Boss]

News to me. I thought the only taxes that Oklahoma municipalities could capture were sales taxes. How is Norman getting Ad Valorem taxes, gift from the County?
That 40% sales tax will not be paid for 25 years

[jdross1982]

News to me. I thought the only taxes that Oklahoma municipalities could capture were sales taxes. How is Norman getting Ad Valorem taxes, gift from the County?
That 40% sales tax will not be paid for 25 years

That isn't what it says on the TIF specifically and after the 25 years the city would get all of the sales tax. It's not in perpetuity.

[Jersey Boss]

That isn't what it says on the TIF specifically and after the 25 years the city would get all of the sales tax. It's not in perpetuity.

You are just repeating what I said about no sales tax collected for 25 years. Don't add words like pepertuity to my post. However Norman does not get it all. Norman gets 4.15% and the state gets 4.5%.
Also the proposed new residences will not be paying taxes for 25 years. These residenes will have kids that will require the building of a new school or two. What will be the funding source for new school construction?

[Jersey Boss]

[jdross1982]

You are just repeating what I said about no sales tax collected for 25 years. Don't add words like pepertuity to my post. However Norman does not get it all. Norman gets 4.15% and the state gets 4.5%.
Also the proposed new residences will not be paying taxes for 25 years. These residenes will have kids that will require the building of a new school or two. What will be the funding source for new school construction?

So all of the sudden these homes won’t be paying property taxes either? Is that what you are saying? Bc property taxes are what builds schools not sales taxes. And yes, the city WILL be getting sales taxes from this development the entire 25 years and a larger share after.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Looks like the council will be considering a non-binding special election on August 27th for the TIF district https://meetings.municode.com/adaHtm...f9fe18&ip=True

[BoulderSooner]

Looks like the council will be considering a non-binding special election on August 27th for the TIF district https://meetings.municode.com/adaHtm...f9fe18&ip=True

that is already done but they couldn't get it off the agenda ..

now they want this which is the next item listed on the agenda ..

After discussing the potential legal issues with an “advisory” special election with Councilmember Schueler, the request was changed to a resolution directing the City Manager to hire a qualified firm, like Amber Integrated or a similarly qualified firm, to conduct a scientific survey of the community as a way to gauge community knowledge and sentiment on the proposed project and tax increment financing as a funding mechanism for the public contributions to the project. The estimate for this survey work is $15,000. Funds sufficient to cover this cost are proposed to be appropriated from General Fund balance (Account 10-29001) and allocated to Consultant-Management/Research (Account 10110101-44001).

and this is a resolution from

Councilmembers Schueler, Nash, and Foreman

so it is not close to a sure thing to happen

[Jersey Boss]

Council votes 6-3 in favor of a voter advisory election on the TIF.
Election in August or November. A victory for citizen involvement.

[TornadoKegan]

Who is this you claim represents Norman? Norman isn't an entity with opinions. And the citizens of Norman don't hate OU. There may be some who think they represent everyone else and are glad to tilt with the windmills, but most know what the soul and economic engine of Norman is. Are some jealous? Sure. Are some anti intellectual and anti universities because of their politics? Of course. But Normanites as a rule embrace OU and the lifestyle it contributes too.

BTW, there are outliers in Stillwater that feel the same way ... they resent OSU. It's just silly. And, if your name suggests you are in or in love with Boulder, the same is true with CU and Boulder.

I assume he is talking about the people against the new arena ( I hope I got the he right)

[TornadoKegan]

I am voting yes for it

[bison34]

What a waste of time and money to keep delaying this over a non-binding vote. Essentially a poll.

I hope Moore comes in and blows Norman away and gets this, in the end. Norman doesn't deserve it.