Chesapeake empire marches on

[Laramie]

Until the state gets serious about education and developing skilled workers, we will be fighting for scraps like Canoo.

And there is no energy behind any type of real start-up culture here (also a function of poor education), either, so we're not getting many home-grown companies (Paycom being the notable and almost singular exception).

We're being killed with no concrete plans to improve the quality of education in Oklahoma (Public Schools or Higher Education), hence the lost and potential lost of quality teachers in Oklahoma.

Pete, we have a nice incentive package like the Oklahoma Quality Jobs Act incentive program.

Let's hope we can turn this situation around. Our city is poised for growth and with plenty of room in the Oklahoma City Metropolitan Area.

[bison34]

Once Walters pisses off and goes his merry way (a lot of people are starting to oppose him, which is good) then OK education will benefit greatly. Higher Ed is already in the 20s, in terms of funding, due to quality leadership there. The problem is that Walters position is an elected one, where as the Chancellor of the regents is a hired position. So it isn't the most qualified who gets hired, but the most politically savvy.

[CaptDave]

Walters is a symptom of a much larger problem. Not sure how it gets resolved so we can have a better educated work force that could lead to better opportunities.

[Pete]

^

Our educational issues go back much farther than the current leaders.

It's a mindset to constantly cut taxes instead of investing in our future. "Come here because we're cheap" is a counterproductive strategy.

The only reason OKC has done better than the state as a whole is due to the citizenry voting to tax itself about a dozen times. OKC should serve as a great example to the rest of the state but instead, we have to constantly work to offset their sabotage.

[CaptDave]

^ Yep.

[jn1780]

^

Our educational issues go back much farther than the current leaders.

It's a mindset to constantly cut taxes instead of investing in our future. "Come here because we're cheap" is a counterproductive strategy.

The only reason OKC has done better than the state as a whole is due to the citizenry voting to tax itself about a dozen times. OKC should serve as a great example to the rest of the state but instead, we have to constantly work to offset their sabotage.

Oklahoma's educational policy has basically become national policy at this point so I wouldn't hold my breath for anything changing.

[theanvil]

Considering a large corporation could relocate 200 miles south of here and their executives take advantage of zero corporate tax and zero state income tax for their employees, chances of winning a new HQ relocation are extremely low. Better off splitting it up between smaller office space and residential. It's a great location for both.

[gopokes88]

^

Our educational issues go back much farther than the current leaders.

It's a mindset to constantly cut taxes instead of investing in our future. "Come here because we're cheap" is a counterproductive strategy.

The only reason OKC has done better than the state as a whole is due to the citizenry voting to tax itself about a dozen times. OKC should serve as a great example to the rest of the state but instead, we have to constantly work to offset their sabotage.

It's a deeper cultural issue that starts in the home.
OK as a culture doesn't put as much emphasis on education as say the NE. Funding won't fix that.
New Mexico is the same way culturally. They are 26th in per pupil but 50th in education.

https://okea.org/oklahoma-remains-la...-expenditures/

[gopokes88]

Considering a large corporation could relocate 200 miles south of here and their executives take advantage of zero corporate tax and zero state income tax for their employees, chances of winning a new HQ relocation are extremely low. Better off splitting it up between smaller office space and residential. It's a great location for both.

A large corporation probably does business in every state as well. DFW has 260 direct destinations. That's a huge selling point.

Gonna have to be home grown companies.

[Pete]

^

We lack a great university of any sort, and that's a massive disadvantage, no matter the situation at home.

You won't find one state with a lot of tech and startups and no universities in the top 100; most have top 25 schools.

You don't have to grow a skilled workforce from childhood, you just need bright, motivated people to come to the state for college and then all types of good things (startups, innovation, well-paid employers) follow.

[gopokes88]

^

We lack a great university of any sort, and that's a massive disadvantage, no matter the situation at home.

You won't find one state with a lot of tech and startups and no universities in the top 100; most have top 25 schools.

Exactly and we don't have the private schooling system the NE has that feeds into the IVY league which feeds into the finance world.

It takes decades to build those institutions. The NE was building them while OK was battling the dust bowl or wasn't even a state.

[Pete]

Exactly and we don't have the private schooling system the NE has that feeds into the IVY league which feeds into the finance world.

It takes decades to build those institutions. The NE was building them while OK was battling the dust bowl or wasn't even a state.

That does not apply to California, or Austin, or the Research Triangle, or Seattle... All places where start-ups and techs gave gone wild. Almost the innovators in those places were drawn from elsewhere by great universities.

There is no easy fix but the first place we should start is turning OU into a much, much better school.

[gopokes88]

That does not apply to California, or Austin, or the Research Triangle, or Seattle... All places where start-ups and techs gave gone wild. Almost the innovators in those places were drawn from elsewhere by great universities.

There is no easy fix but the first place we should start is turning OU into a much, much better school.

California has natural environment advantages that rival any place in the entire world.
Seattle has Microsoft which paved the way for Amazon.

OU being a top 50 school would be a great first step. But rural, who control the legislature, do not put emphasis and the University system and that's cultural. Which is my OG point, it's less about the money, and more about what OK culturally values.

OSU was making great strides then Jimmy Harrell forced Shrum to resign. Harrell is a rancher from Western OK.

[Pete]

Seattle had Microsoft in the first place due to Udub.

All these tech jobs happen because of great universities and the culture follows, not the other way around.

[gopokes88]

Seattle had Microsoft in the first place due to Udub.

All these tech jobs happen because of great universities and the culture follows, not the other way around.

If families value education, educational success rate go up regardless of funding. It why the NE has extremely well funded public schools and even better private schools. Even though the public schools are good and well funded, a huge % of people still spend on top of that to put their kids in private schools, because they value educational attainment.

So first the culture must change, then funding will follow because the culture changed.

Throwing money at it, without a change in culture will not change achievement rates. It's literally played out exactly like that in New Mexico. The state lost a lawsuit in 2016(ish) per pupil spending and teacher pay has gone significantly higher with no increase in math science reading proficiency test scores. From 50th to 50th.

[BoulderSooner]

Seattle had Microsoft in the first place due to Udub.

All these tech jobs happen because of great universities and the culture follows, not the other way around.

seattle got microsoft because gates and allen wanted a better place then New mexico and they were both born in Seattle ..

and austin owes its growth as a tech hub largely to Dell ..

[ditm4567]

Walters is a symptom of a much larger problem. Not sure how it gets resolved so we can have a better educated work force that could lead to better opportunities.

I spoke with a colleague who is pretty high up down on 23rd Street. About 90% of Walters’ support comes from out of state “think tank” such as the Freedom Institute—or whatever that wacky pack group down in Dallas is called. It’s only a matter of time until he’s on his way out of this state.

[Pete]

seattle got microsoft because gates and allen wanted a better place then New mexico and they were both born in Seattle ..

and austin owes its growth as a tech hub largely to Dell ..

And they needed skilled workers. No way they grow those companies in places without great universities, which not coincidentally, is true in both Seattle and Austin.

Michael Dell was from Houston but moved to Austin to go to UT.

Paul Allen and Bill Gates were from Seattle, and while still in high school:

used the laboratory of the Computer Science Department of the University of Washington for personal research and computer programming

[Jake]

The onus supposedly being on the general population and not the legislature for largely failing education for the majority of people's lifetimes here is so very Oklahoma.

Back to the main topic. Just sell it to the Chickasaws and have them figure out something cool to do with it.

[BoulderSooner]

And they needed skilled workers. No way they grow those companies in places without great universities, which not coincidentally, is true in both Seattle and Austin.

Michael Dell was from Houston but moved to Austin to go to UT.

Paul Allen and Bill Gates were from Seattle, and while still in high school:

100% Gates and Allen needed a place with talent and they would have only moved to places that had it ..

Dell on the other had when they started and grew as a personal computer company didn't need much skilled talent at all .. ..

[Pete]

Dell on the other had when they started and grew as a personal computer company didn't need much skilled talent at all .. ..

Dell would not have been in Austin if not for the University of Texas. Period.

[BoulderSooner]

Dell would not have been in Austin if not for the University of Texas. Period.

yeah because he was in college there .. dell would have started where ever Michael dell when to school .. he was pre-med at ut ..

[Pete]

yeah because he was in college there .. dell would have started where ever Michael dell when to school .. he was pre-med at ut ..

You are only proving my point.

Great universities attract great minds. Many Silicon Valley startups began with people who moved there for Stanford or Berkeley, many of whom dropped out.

And once you get a critical mass of great minds, innovation and growth are self-perpetuating.


BTW, there has long been discussion about "brain drain" in Oklahoma, where the best and brightest leave for precisely the type of fertile intellectual ground created by excellent higher education. Same is true for the ultra-influencial "creative class".

[Swake]

You are only proving my point.

Great universities attract great minds. Many Silicon Valley startups began with people who moved there for Stanford or Berkeley, many of whom dropped out.

And once you get a critical mass of great minds, innovation and growth are self-perpetuating.


BTW, there has long been discussion about "brain drain" in Oklahoma, where the best and brightest leave for precisely the type of fertile intellectual ground created by excellent higher education. Same is true for the ultra-influencial "creative class".

My daughter for personal/family reasons did a semester of school at the University of Tulsa while she was in college. I forget what the topic of class was, but she had a visiting professor who had worked at a big time think tank in DC. He was a complete arrogant ass and talked down to the class telling them that no one attending a school like TU could get a job like his at the think tank. Or any school in Oklahoma. He was mocking the whole state basically. Beyond being really rude, it's also kinda sadly true. And why brain drain happens. We certainly need to do better with education at all levels.

[Rover]

What is it about so many in this state that it devalues the importance of education? It is almost like a badge of honor to many. Are they are in denial, ignorant as to its importance, or is it a class/culture warfare thing?