OKC or TULSA? Which Metro Has The Most Long-Term Growth Potential?

[FritterGirl]

Patrol,

What in my post bashed OKC? I am an OKC native. I am proud of my City, and especially its many accomplishments.

I was simply trying to untie some statements that were not exactly factual, and provide them with statements that were a little more true (especially as they pertained to the performing arts in OKC, a scene I am intimately familiar with.)

I'm not on, nor purport to be on, any high horse. Perhaps you should get off yours so we can see eye to eye.

[kenadams]

Hasnt Tulsa lost the Brady for shows...For decades that area/venue has been able to support the arts. The Civic Center crushes ANY venue in tulsa for the performing arts. The tulsa entertainment group cant even raise money. tulsa cant pass taxes to save its life. It cant even lure in a Wal-Mart downtown!!!!

What does tulsa need..Prune juice to pass that ****.

Bells is gone! Drillers moving!!

Instead of trying to bash OKC, maybe someone needs to give that Kaiser guy a call to pump in life support for a lovely city that is QUICKLY QUICKLY going down the tubes. So before you crap on OKC....Think about your terrible homeless problem that is "down by the river."

Listen to this guy "Bobby" he will tell you how it is...
YouTube - Tulsa, OK

Jeez, man, calm down. I despise Tulsa arrogance as much as anyone, but Tulsa does have some admirable arts institutions and terrific live music scene. The Tulsa Ballet is worlds better than BO and the Philbrook is a treasure. We can't take those away from Tulsa.

OKC is shoring up with deadCenter, the Girlie Show, and the OCMOA blockbusters and I'm pretty sure Tulsans have been watching. The fact that OKC is outstripping Tulsa in Celebrity Attractions subscriptions should tell you right there that OKC's no culture slouch.

But if you want to be taken seriously, take it down a notch and get your words right ("scene" is not "seen")!

[OKC PATROL]

Jeez, man, calm down. I despise Tulsa arrogance as much as anyone, but Tulsa does have some admirable arts institutions and terrific live music scene. The Tulsa Ballet is worlds better than BO and the Philbrook is a treasure. We can't take those away from Tulsa.

OKC is shoring up with deadCenter, the Girlie Show, and the OCMOA blockbusters and I'm pretty sure Tulsans have been watching. The fact that OKC is outstripping Tulsa in Celebrity Attractions subscriptions should tell you right there that OKC's no culture slouch.

But if you want to be taken seriously, take it down a notch and get your words right ("scene" is not "seen")!

"seen" come on.... You are going to tag me with spelling. Notice I did spell it "scene" in the previous sentence. Not to be mean but that is so lame. I am VERY involved with the arts so I most certainly understand what a "scene" is and how it is apllied to the arts.

I can only imagine...The same tulsans who think they know about the arts STILL think that SOHO is NYs art district (scene). What a joke. Move on to Chelsea. Also the same people, who I PERSONALLY know in the art "scene" in tulsa, actually think that NY is still the art capitol of the world!! Say hello to Berlin, Brussels, Antwerp, Madrid, London, Tokyo, Zurich, Milano ect.. Im telling you this because I know 'artists' that reside in tulsa and they are practically retarded in the contemporary arts because there are no contemporary artists in Tulsa!!- poor things.

OU is a research institute that brings more creativity into OKCs youth and actually HAS artists like Adam Brown ect. that actually LIVE in OKC. That is a big deal when you want to talk about who has the edge in the "arts."

ITS the PEOPLE that make up the art "scene" ...Not the elderly idiots that prize a garden as a museum.

Culture also means more than art deco/river/saks....OKC has more culture because it actually has racial diversity that allows its citizens to become aware of the world outside their little town. Wheres Little Saigon in tulsa??

I actually love tulsa, think its pretty too and have friends there...But when I start to read about how Tulsa trumps OKC in the arts...Dont make me sick.

Sorry if anyone doesnt like what I have to say but its only the truth...I get tired of reading how tulsa is so far ahead of OKC....

So enough of the Cowtown remarks...It disgusts me.

[bombermwc]

ITS the PEOPLE that make up the art "scene" ...Not the elderly idiots that prize a garden as a museum.

Culture also means more than art deco/river/saks....OKC has more culture because it actually has racial diversity that allows its citizens to become aware of the world outside their little town. Wheres Little Saigon in tulsa??

I think these are two excellent points, if not stated in a blunt maner.

#1 - The "elderly idiots", I would have said "Old Money" Tulsans...lol. This is a huge problem in Tulsa. The old money population in Tulsa wants to hold on to something from their childhood and they don't want to change. Unfortunately, they are allowing a lot of loss in holding on so rigidly. The Philbrook is awesome no matter where you are from. We can't dog it in OKC folks...remember we have the Myriad Gardens and toot our horn about that place...sort of the same thing. But the old Tulsa folks are really holding Tulsa back because they won't cooperate with anyone on anything.

#2 all you had to do was look around during the imigration law happenings to see Tulsa is just as racially split as ever. Rather than embracing culture, Tulsa seems adament to draw a line in the sand and keep "those folks" on the "other side of the tracks". Tulsa is racially diverse, but the diverse culture isn't allowed to intermigle with the rest of the community. Again, I think a lot of that ties back to that Old Tulsa mentality where people won't compromise or accept tolerance.

In OKC things are just different. There is a whole level of cooperation that doesnt exist in Tulsa. The city of OKC is making it a point to get projects done in the areas that are economicaly deprived right now.

**Warning, this is not a racial statement** Socio-economically (NOT racially, just check the statistics), a higher percentage of diverse cultures live in the economically deprived areas. What OKC is doing is working hard to embrace these areas rather than cordon them off. The 23rd st. corridor has been under development for a decade and continues it's work. The area surrounding it is MUCH better off than it was 10 years ago...and private development is really taking off. Work is slowly spinning up in the east 23rd area to embrace the African American culture. Museums, streetscapes, etc. The sorts of things that help spur private development. Capital Hill has also had a slow but continuous change. It's a more industrial part of the city so people don't travel it as much, but there is work being done. This is probably the part of the city that needs the most help, but I think C2S will help spur that help south of the river.

Now, that being said, where in Tulsa is anything like this happening? Find me depressed areas where the city has really tried. Where are the councilmembers from these areas??? What projects are they pushing?? WHERE'S TULSA'S WILLA JOHNSON EQUIVELANT???

[jbrown84]

Don't forget Plaza District and the Paseo.

[JB1975]

Which city has more growth potential?

Well, the term 'potential' shouldn't even be used when discussing Oklahoma City. It's actually doing it.

[HOT ROD]

"Eastside, Capital Hill, Plaza District, Paseo, Stockyards City, N. Western/Japantown. ... others ..."

Dont forget the Asia District/Little Saigon too. And OKC used to have a historic Chinatown in downtown under what is now the Cox Convention Center.

OKC has it going on - but immigrants (and big cities like OKC, Houston, Seattle who embrace it) is what makes OKC cosmopolitan despite the "show and tell" offerings of the Former Tulsa. OKC is HOME GROWN.

I was very impressed with the OCPD's stance regarding that horrible immigration law - they said, they were not going to become immigration officers and would not harrass nor check people based on visible differences (unlike Tulsa). You would expect this from a big city with lots of immigrants that are well established in said city (although still poor).

OKC has it and does it! It is because of OKC's diversity (white-italian/irish/greek/e. european, Black, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Japanese, brasillian, columbian, australian. .. others?) - that is what sets OKC apart.

No offense, but that IS reality. JB is right, OKC is doing it - so of course it has more potential!

[Architect2010]

Ugh. Someone started a thread on skyscraper forums... Talking about OKC. saying that its dumpy, nothing to do, and worse than tulsa.... Its like people have nothing to better than to come over to OKC and Tulsa and bash them. ugh.

Well heres the link if u wanna see it. They have sum good development threads on OKC in the Midwest SectionSkyscraper

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Sweet! Forum war!

I'll get out my e-trebuchet.

[jbrown84]

Well heres the link if u wanna see it. They have sum good development threads on OKC in the Midwest SectionSkyscraper

I will not take people insenuating that all we have to do for fun is go to the mall. I posted an extensive yet incomplete list of various entertainment options from recreation to arts to sports to nightlife.