Big employer taking hard look at OKC

[OKVision4U]

This isn't monopoly…it's not a buy every property you land on kind of game. The incentives will be used on other businesses. Maybe not another single 1,000 employee business…but what if it lures ten 80 employee businesses that have greater growth opportunity and higher paying wages?

You can't win every battle, so it's important that your strategy remains consistent and sensible.

Ok, I will explain it this way.. If oil drops below $60 Brl, all things will come to a stop here in OKC. The small ones w/ a local "reliance' will have to stop and take a look at their business plan. Then you will want that other business w/ those 1,000 jobs. BTW, these are 800 full-time w/ 400 part-time. And the 800 were solid paying postions. Not just 8-12 hr. And, this Amazon company is bringing in outside investment dollars and not just OKC "recycling" the same one. fyi.

My hope is oil gets to $120 Brl and we keep this going for 20 years.

[soonerguru]

I do agree with this the more I think about it, especially this being against Tulsa. Jobs/economic growth is one area where OKC is really pulling ahead of Tulsa. If Tulsa is able to get a leg up there, combine that with the other advantages Tulsa has and the momentum could easily shift in their favor.

This is laughable. We're less than 24 hours from the GE announcement. We've been smoking Tulsa in jobs announcements, unemployment, and income growth. We've been getting high-profile relocations like Boeing while they have been bleeding jobs from American, lost the Dollar-Thrifty HQ, etc. Name one serious Tulsa jobs announcement in the last 24 months.

It will take years and years for Tulsa to catch up to OKC economically. Years. Don't forget the pending announcement of the MLP; my guess is OKC, not Houston, will be its headquarters.

We should do what we can to win these jobs but don't lose perspective on our city's position. Frankly, the statement above is yet one more example of your "glass half empty" comments that have little grounding in the facts.

[KenRagsdale]

Mayor Norick taught us we should concentrate on enhancing the quality of life style for those currently here, but for those who come later. I trust those responsible for such things to look at the deal and make a reasonable judgement.
Some times, the best deal is the one in which you walk away.

[bchris02]

This is laughable. We're less than 24 hours from the GE announcement. We've been smoking Tulsa in jobs announcements, unemployment, and income growth. We've been getting high-profile relocations like Boeing while they have been bleeding jobs from American, lost the Dollar-Thrifty HQ, etc. Name one serious Tulsa jobs announcement in the last 24 months.

It will take years and years for Tulsa to catch up to OKC economically. Years. Don't forget the pending announcement of the MLP; my guess is OKC, not Houston, will be its headquarters.

We should do what we can to win these jobs but don't lose perspective on our city's position. Frankly, the statement above is yet one more example of your "glass half empty" comments that have little grounding in the facts.

I don't think losing an Amazon distribution center is going to give Tulsa any sort of long-term leg up. Tulsa has been stagnating in terms of jobs announcements and this will be a shot in the arm for them. Its understandable they would be willing to put forth more incentives for this distribution center than OKC would. Tulsa needs this. However, if as OKVision said, oil drops to $60/bbl AND Tulsa lands another high profile high-tech company beyond the Amazon center, the momentum could shift in their favor. With everything that has been announced in OKC this may seem like just gravy now, but things can and do change. I can see both sides in this debate.

[OKVision4U]

This is laughable. We're less than 24 hours from the GE announcement. We've been smoking Tulsa in jobs announcements, unemployment, and income growth. We've been getting high-profile relocations like Boeing while they have been bleeding jobs from American, lost the Dollar-Thrifty HQ, etc. Name one serious Tulsa jobs announcement in the last 24 months.

It will take years and years for Tulsa to catch up to OKC economically. Years. Don't forget the pending announcement of the MLP; my guess is OKC, not Houston, will be its headquarters.

We should do what we can to win these jobs but don't lose perspective on our city's position. Frankly, the statement above is yet one more example of your "glass half empty" comments that have little grounding in the facts.

Our local economy is so tied into the O&G market, that it will swing with the Eb & Flow of that market. ( I love that market, I want it to be here and strong for another 100 years. ) OKC needs to have all the other segments THRIVING. Tech / Healthcare / Bio / Aero and it is getting better each year. I just want to fight for ALL big jobs movers for other families here in OKC metro.

[soonerguru]

I don't think losing an Amazon distribution center is going to give Tulsa any sort of long-term leg up. Tulsa has been stagnating in terms of jobs announcements and this will be a shot in the arm for them. Its understandable they would be willing to put forth more incentives for this distribution center than OKC would. Tulsa needs this. However, if as OKVision said, oil drops to $60/bbl AND Tulsa lands another high profile high-tech company beyond the Amazon center, the momentum could shift in their favor. With everything that has been announced in OKC this may seem like just gravy now, but things can and do change. I can see both sides in this debate.

If the price of oil tanks OKC is screwed -- but so is Tulsa, Houston, and maybe even Denver and other cities. We do not have a very diversified economy. We are going "all in" on oil and gas. It's great right now, but that is the risk. 1000 distribution center jobs would not be our economic salvation if the commodity price of oil and gas tank precipitously. Fortunately, the global demand for oil and gas are not decreasing.

[adaniel]

I don't think losing an Amazon distribution center is going to give Tulsa any sort of long-term leg up. Tulsa has been stagnating in terms of jobs announcements and this will be a shot in the arm for them. Its understandable they would be willing to put forth more incentives for this distribution center than OKC would. Tulsa needs this. However, if as OKVision said, oil drops to $60/bbl AND Tulsa lands another high profile high-tech company beyond the Amazon center, the momentum could shift in their favor. With everything that has been announced in OKC this may seem like just gravy now, but things can and do change. I can see both sides in this debate.

If oil drops to $60/bbl with no corresponding rise in natgas both OKC and Tulsa will be in trouble.

I'm with guru on here. It's never a good idea to start believing your poo doesn't stink, I don't get the negativity here. Crabbiness from cabin fever, maybe?

[heyerdahl]

You have to think it would at least damage the relationship or make things awkward in the negotiation room when the site selectors learn that someone involved in a top secret deal has been leaking details to a public website.

[OKVision4U]

If the price of oil tanks OKC is screwed -- but so is Tulsa, Houston, and maybe even Denver and other cities. We do not have a very diversified economy. We are going "all in" on oil and gas. It's great right now, but that is the risk. 1000 distribution center jobs would not be our economic salvation if the commodity price of oil and gas tank precipitously. Fortunately, the global demand for oil and gas are not decreasing.

Guru / Daniel .... The best times to increase (outside / non-traditional ) economic segements : This is for Oklahoma anything other-than Agri / Energy Oil & Gas / Institutional & Government jobs, is Now. This is when we beaf-up our Healthcare / Bio / Tech / Aero / & yes, Distrubtion too. If OKC metro could get these other segments to "wag the dog" than the price of oil would always be gravy and not primary or single purpose ecoonmy.

Hey, you tell me, would an addtional 1,000 jobs be a major impact to Moore right now? ... Tornado victims could certainly use this to speed up recovery and help them get their swaggr back.

[BrettM2]

Guys... OKVision4U is the Edgar of all other threads. He/She have ideas in their head and nothing you say will change that. He/She is right and you are too dumb to understand the brilliance of those arguments.

Carry on...

[soonerguru]

Guru / Daniel .... The best times to increase (outside / non-traditional ) economic segements : This is for Oklahoma anything other-than Agri / Energy Oil & Gas / Institutional & Government jobs, is Now. This is when we beaf-up our Healthcare / Bio / Tech / Aero / & yes, Distrubtion too. If OKC metro could get these other segments to "wag the dog" than the price of oil would always be gravy and not primary or single purpose ecoonmy.

Hey, you tell me, would an addtional 1,000 jobs be a major impact to Moore right now? ... Tornado victims could certainly use this to speed up recovery and help them get their swaggr back.

I agree, and don't oversimplify what I'm saying. Perhaps I should make it more clear to you: OKC SHOULD FIGHT HARD TO GET ALL KINDS OF JOBS, whether white collar, blue collar, manufacturing, technical, service, and even public sector. Do not misunderstand: we should aggressively go after them. But we shouldn't go in the tank on incentives out of desperation.

We won't win every battle, but we're doing something right. OKC was recently recognized for being in the top 5 of all cities for middle class job growth. Don't lose perspective.

As to economic diversification, I've been a proponent of that for three decades, so no argument there. However, the biggest private sector influencers in OKC and the state for economic development are oil and gas guys, so they tend to dominate the boards / committees / organizations that undertake our economic development efforts, and they have the loudest voice.

Tell them you want us to compete with Silicon Valley. Tell them you want us to diversify our energy economy by focusing on alternative energy jobs as well.

People have been talking about diversifying OKC's economy beyond oil and gas for my entire adult life, and while we have made progress in certain areas, this is an oil and gas town baby.

[OKVision4U]

Guys... OKVision4U is the Edgar of all other threads. He/She have ideas in their head and nothing you say will change that. He/She is right and you are too dumb to understand the brilliance of those arguments.

Carry on...

...no, it looks like just a few of you Brett.

[OKVision4U]

I agree, and don't oversimplify what I'm saying. Perhaps I should make it more clear to you: OKC SHOULD FIGHT HARD TO GET ALL KINDS OF JOBS, whether white collar, blue collar, manufacturing, technical, service, and even public sector. Do not misunderstand: we should aggressively go after them. But we shouldn't go in the tank on incentives out of desperation.

We won't win every battle, but we're doing something right. OKC was recently recognized for being in the top 5 of all cities for middle class job growth. Don't lose perspective.

As to economic diversification, I've been a proponent of that for three decades, so no argument there. However, the biggest private sector influencers in OKC and the state for economic development are oil and gas guys, so they tend to dominate the boards / committees / organizations that undertake our economic development efforts, and they have the loudest voice.

Tell them you want us to compete with Silicon Valley. Tell them you want us to diversify our energy economy by focusing on alternative energy jobs as well.

People have been talking about diversifying OKC's economy beyond oil and gas for my entire adult life, and while we have made progress in certain areas, this is an oil and gas town baby.

Guru, we are on the same page for sure. We probably agree on 95% here. OKC has a great image across the US now and I love it. I just don't want to ever over-look 1,000 jobs to Owasso. It's not like we lost them to Austin / Dallas / KC / LA / Miami / NYC. I get that, but Owasso? Surely we can make a stronger push and "win" that one.

[soonerguru]

Also, until this state puts serious efforts into improving the outcomes AND FUNDING for common education AND higher education, we are not going to be attractive to many employers outside of the realm we have now.

[bchris02]

Also, until this state puts serious efforts into improving the outcomes AND FUNDING for common education AND higher education, we are not going to be attractive to many employers outside of the realm we have now.

+1

[Plutonic Panda]

We can take a loss of this distribution center. OKC does need to the quote "we'll do anything and everything to land every single opportunity" rather than be realistic as to what each deal is worth it to the city and if they one day leave, can we say that was money well spent bringing them here. It sucks and maybe out of some miracle we will still get it but for now, just keep waiting for other wonderful news.

[OKVision4U]

We can take a loss of this distribution center. OKC does need to the quote "we'll do anything and everything to land every single opportunity" rather than be realistic as to what each deal is worth it to the city and if they one day leave, can we say that was money well spent bringing them here. It sucks and maybe out of some miracle we will still get it but for now, just keep waiting for other wonderful news.

..well that's one way to look at it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah and realistically, if we find out we truly missed out on this and Tulsa got it, I guess we'll just have to settle for our street car, possible multiple skyscrapers, GE center, massive retail dev. on Memorial, the countless awesome urban housing projects, 21c Museum Hotel, world class boat row with future white water rapids and whatever other awesome projects the future brings us.

[kevinpate]

By many accounts, a Ford F150 is a dang decent truck, and would serve its owner well.

That said, unless there is one and only F150 available and you must have a truck today,
and perhaps not even then, one ought not pay 2X MSRP just so it isn't sold to some
landowner over near Owasso.

Yes, the F150 is a dang fine truck. But, it isn't the only ride one can choose.

[OKVision4U]

Yeah and realistically, if we find out we truly missed out on this and Tulsa got it, I guess we'll just have to settle for our street car, possible multiple skyscrapers, GE center, massive retail dev. on Memorial, the countless awesome urban housing projects, 21c Museum Hotel, world class boat row with future white water rapids and whatever other awesome projects the future brings us.

Pollyanna Panda, We are all excited about our current progress & our future is incredibly bright. I want 10 towers w/ enough new commerce to warrant my High Speed Rail projects here in Oklahoma. But, that does not let me off the hook for 1,000 jobs in OKC metro to Owasso, OK. I don't take losing any jobs to Owasso. ..and especially groups like Amazon.

[BrettM2]

Pollyanna Panda, We are all excited about our current progress & our future is incredibly bright. I want 10 towers w/ enough new commerce to warrant my High Speed Rail projects here in Oklahoma. But, that does not let me off the hook for 1,000 jobs in OKC metro to Owasso, OK. I don't take losing any jobs to Owasso. ..and especially groups like Amazon.

1) We don't know it is Amazon, so quit acting like that's fact.

2) You haven't met anyone on this board who wants OKC to give up on trying, or stop growing, or quit building new/better things. But you have no sense of reality or scale when it comes to anything you've posted. 10 towers would be great, but it won't happen. Probably not in my lifetime and I like to think I've got another 60 years in me. From where we were 20 years ago, the one we have is incredible. The one announced is only adding to it and there may be some evidence we are getting a third (BoA drive-thru site). Being excited for that doesn't mean people who don't care because we aren't clamoring for 10 towers.

I don't fault your enthusiasm; it's great to have people excited about OKC. Your problem is that you degrade anyone who doesn't believe your pie-in-the-sky proclamations. OKC will not die without 10 towers, or just because we didn't land this facility. Just like OU won't wither on the vine if they don't immediately expand their stadium. We aren't idiots. We definitely don't love OKC less than you, so stop acting like that.

[Pete]

It stinks we didn't get this but keep in mind only a few miles from this proposed business is a monstrous series of distribution warehouses owned by Hobby Lobby.

This project would have been about a million square feet... HL already has almost SIX million sf and is growing rapidly. I'm sure they'll be over 10 million in just the next few years, as they have very ambitious growth plans and have said many times they will do all their distribution from OKC.

So, with or without this new business we have thousands of distribution jobs in that immediate area with thousands more to come, and soon.


Frankly, I hope our economic development people are spending most their time and incentive dollars pursuing high-paying jobs. It seems we have an absolute avalanche of lower-paid jobs, especially when you consider the call centers and other back-office types of operations in town.


And BTW, people forget that first and foremost, OKC is a GOVERMENT town, not oil & gas. Tinker alone employs over 27,000 (!) and that's not including the Boeing jobs. The State employs 42,000 (!) just in OKC; even the FAA employs 7,500 which is more than Devon, Chesapeake, Continental, SandRidge and Enable combined. Then you have the City, County, school districts, higher education... All huge and then a ton of jobs in the healthcare industry as well.

In fact, of employers with more than 1,000 employees in OKC, oil & gas only accounts for 6,600 out of 153,000 jobs -- that's just over 4%.

But the reason that industry gets so much emphasis (this thread is a perfect example) is because they pay well. And we need more of that type of employer than we'll ever need more distribution and call centers.

[OKVision4U]

By many accounts, a Ford F150 is a dang decent truck, and would serve its owner well.

That said, unless there is one and only F150 available and you must have a truck today,
and perhaps not even then, one ought not pay 2X MSRP just so it isn't sold to some
landowner over near Owasso.

Yes, the F150 is a dang fine truck. But, it isn't the only ride one can choose.

I just ran some "rough" numbers in what 800 full time & 400 part time jobs would bring in on an annual basis.... Rough number $35,000,000 in wages in year 1. If they worked there 10 years, it would be est. $350 Mil. That is just a portion of the direct numbers represented to a local economy. That is a $ 1/3 Bil. Now that Ford Pick UP is worth the investment. ...and speaking of Ford Pick Ups, I'm sure they would by a few pickups in that same 10 years span too. So the extra dollars our city ponies up on the front, is well worth it.

[OKVision4U]

It stinks we didn't get this but keep in mind only a few miles from this proposed business is a monstrous series of distribution warehouses owned by Hobby Lobby.

This project would have been about a million square feet... HL already has almost SIX million sf and is growing rapidly. I'm sure they'll be over 10 million in just the next few years, as they have very ambitious growth plans and have said many times they will do all their distribution from OKC.

So, with or without this new business we have thousands of distribution jobs in that immediate area with thousands more to come, and soon.


Frankly, I hope our economic development people are spending most their time and incentive dollars pursuing high-paying jobs. It seems we have an absolute avalanche of lower-paid jobs, especially when you consider the call centers and other back-office types of operations in town.


And BTW, people forget that first and foremost, OKC is a GOVERMENT town, not oil & gas. Tinker alone employs over 27,000 (!) and that's not including the Boeing jobs. The State employs 42,000 (!) just in OKC; even the FAA employs 7,500 which is more than Devon, Chesapeake, Continental, SandRidge and Enable combined. Then you have the City, County, school districts, higher education... All huge and then a ton of jobs in the healthcare industry as well.

In fact, of employers with more than 1,000 employees in OKC, oil & gas only accounts for 6,600 out of 153,000 jobs -- that's just over 4%.

But the reason that industry gets so much emphasis (this thread is a perfect example) is because they pay well. And we need more of that type of employer than we'll ever need more distribution and call centers.

great points. +1.

[soonerguru]

Another thought: it is not in OKC's best interest for Tulsa to wither and die. We need Tulsa to start catching up a bit. The two cities, led by OKC, are what will ultimately lead this state into the current century. Don't like the backwater backwardness of our Okie Legislature? Curse and moan about liquor laws and other silly things? If OKC AND Tulsa become vibrant economically dynamic cities, and experience major population growth, the rural influence in our government will begin to wane. Right now, we have a rurally dominant legislature.

We need Tulsa to do better than it is doing right now for our own self interest.