Ford Center improvements up for March 4 vote

[shunt]

Everyday working schmucks like me can kick these guys butts anyday....

's all I'm sayin!

[jbrown84]

shunt, we won't get big conventions IF WE DON'T UPDATE OUR FACILITIES.

Stop acting as if this is a handout for Bennett to spend on a mercedes. This will impact anyone who goes to the Ford Center for any event, and will make it attractive to even more events than it currently hosts. It's NOT just about the NBA.

[jbrown84]

Good info Karried, however I believe the deadline to register to vote for the upcoming elections was last week. I could be wrong though.

It's too late to register for the presidential primary, but not for the March 4th Ford Center vote.

[BDP]

People act as if an NBA team is the only thing in existence that can help a city becoming something worth anything. Hello? Why can't we get some serious efforts going on bringing big conventions and stuff here? I myself almost got the '08 national conference for media reform to come here... a 3 day event with 7500 people..easily. Thats 1/14th of an NBA season with hotels totally full and restarants full breakfeast, lunch and dinner....come on!

OK. Let's talk about this. I really don't think that anyone is suggesting that an NBA team is the only thing in existence that can help a city become something worth anything and, honestly, anyone who is claiming that people are saying that is really stretching and most likely less than genuine.

BUT, you mention efforts on bringing big conventions here. I doubt that anyone would disagree with you there, but these things hardly have a negative relationship and, if anything, having a major league entertainment organization here actually would help in those efforts. It at least adds a significant line item to the presentation's section on "what is there to do in Oklahoma City while your convention is here." It could be argued that attempts to lure a major league sports franchise is, in fact, part of a serious effort to bring big conventions here.

Furthermore, in what way is this exclusively about the NBA? In many way it IS precisely about luring more larger events to Oklahoma City in addition to the NBA. An arena is part of the convention infrastructure and adding key amenities to make an arena at least on par with the top tier arenas available in the country only strengthens Oklahoma City's position in the convention industry. Having a major tenant, like the NBA, only helps pay for operating costs and keeps the multi-million dollar facility from being dark for more than 30 days a year.

Finally, if your convention had come to Oklahoma City would it have used any publicly funded convention facilities? Probably, so I doubt that your position is an ideological one. It sounds more like a vindictive one against the Bennett basketball group, the NBA, or both. On those grounds, it's hard to take the opposition seriously, because, while the impact of the NBA's economic influence on the city may be overstated, it seems the value of having a top tier arena as part of our convention infrastructure is being understated in all of this.

The reality is that, at the time, the 90 million dollars spent by the tax payers to build the Ford Center was way more speculative than the additional $112 dollars proposed in this measure. We spent almost as much money without really knowing the short term viability of the market. We actually now have a much better handle of the long term viability of the market to support large scale events and conventions, making this money a lot less risky than our initial investment with the potential to significantly elevate one of our public assets to the top tier of its asset class.

If the opposition can reframe their position in terms of the detriment having a top arena in our infrastructure would cause, then I may listen. Personally, I'm not even sure the NBA is the best thing that would come out of arena improvements, but if it takes the NBA to provide motivation for Oklahoma City to begin building a nationally competitive events and convention infrastructure, then so be it.

[betts]

Everyday working schmucks like me can kick these guys butts anyday....

's all I'm sayin!

So, is this about the arena, or about a disparity in wealth? I hope we'll vote based on how we feel about having an NBA team in the city, as well as improving our arena in an attempt to keep events like the Big Twelve Tournament, and perhaps lure others, rather than as a way to punish the Sonics' owners for their wealth. Especially since we still don't know that it's the Sonics who are moving here. It may well be the Hornets, or, far less likely if we pass the bond issue, it could be no one.

[jbrown84]

I also think it's silly to lump Bennett and the other owners into a group of incompassionate Rebublicans who would never give a dime to the less fortunate. You don't know that to be true about them at all.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Oh...snap.

[OKCDrummer77]

From the Chamber of Commerce website:

The election is open to voters living within the City of Oklahoma City.

I take this to mean only people living in Oklahoma City proper will be able to vote on this issue. So, as a resident of The Village, I won't be able to vote. Does anyone else read that statement the same way I did?

[oneforone]

From the Chamber of Commerce website:



I take this to mean only people living in Oklahoma City proper will be able to vote on this issue. So, as a resident of The Village, I won't be able to vote. Does anyone else read that statement the same way I did?

You are correct... Just like I cannot vote for a ballot issue for The Village. The vote is on the sales tax rate for OKC. The sales tax rate in The Village will stay the same regardless of the outcome of the election.

[Karried]

A bulletin from the Myspace group:

YouTube - Discover Oklahoma City

[SouthsideSooner]

I hope Shunt really is the leader of the opposition.......

[Kerry]

This is pretty simple really. SHUNT doesn't like Bennett and some of the other owners for one reason. He doesn't like their politics. It isn't even wealth envy because I'll bet he loves John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards and they are very very wealthy. But you see, to people like SHUNT what really matters to him is own opinion on things. Working to improve OKC takes a back seat to SHUNT's own opinions. Sad coming from someone who claims to be part of the "compassionate" crowd. If it was George Soros trying to bring a team to OKC SHUNT couldn't hand out the money fast enough. To SHUNT it is more about "who" and less about "what".

[Doug Loudenback]

You may be right, Kerry ... as for me, I'll probably vote for either Clinton OR Obama but I'm very pleased and proud of what the wealthy folk are doing and trying to do for our city, too! That doesn't mean that some worthy arguments can not be made by the vote's opposition ... they can be ... though, of course, I already know how Doug Dawgz vote will be cast!

Anyway, as well as the "YouTube" medium (and my amateurish skills) will allow (and that's not very good), here's some eye/ear candy I've put together ...



At 64, I think it's become time for me to learn some new moves with my hands, feet, shoulders, head angles, etc., and get with the rap program!

[Kerry]

You may be right, Kerry ... as for me, I'll probably vote for either Clinton OR Obama but I'm very pleased and proud of what the wealthy folk are doing and trying to do for our city, too!

That is what makes you different from people like SHUNT. People like SHUNT only have one agenda in life and don't realize that it takes all of us to make the world go around. SHUNT doesn't like Bennett, therefore, everything Bennett does must be opposed at all costs.

[betts]

The silly thing is, it may not even be Bennett he's opposing. This is a bond issue fueled by the NBA; this is not something Clay Bennett told Mick Cornett he needs in order to move the team. The NBA wants to make sure the city is willing to support the team, and telling us we need to upgrade our arena is pretty lenient, considering they'll let Bennett move even if Seattle agrees to upgrade the Key Arena, and will make him stay if Seattle agrees to a new arena. Davd Stern has been to our arena, so he knows it's amenities are well below standard for the NBA, with the exception of the number of seats.

I'm still hearing that the city does not know whether the Sonics will be here, or the Hornets, if we pass this bond issue, but they're pretty positive it will be neither team if we don't. So, anyone who is opposing this because they don't like Clay Bennett's politics or his wealth is a little confused about this issue. And poor George Shinn doesn't have any money, so you can't hate him for that. His team is worth twice his net worth, which puts him $100 million in debt, I'm thinking.

[shunt]

Not a fan of any of those people. Or the fact that we have only one option (in your view) more than North Korea. (either your for one side or the other)

This is pretty simple really. SHUNT doesn't like Bennett and some of the other owners for one reason. He doesn't like their politics. It isn't even wealth envy because I'll bet he loves John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards and they are very very wealthy. But you see, to people like SHUNT what really matters to him is own opinion on things. Working to improve OKC takes a back seat to SHUNT's own opinions. Sad coming from someone who claims to be part of the "compassionate" crowd. If it was George Soros trying to bring a team to OKC SHUNT couldn't hand out the money fast enough. To SHUNT it is more about "who" and less about "what".

[shunt]

Kerry...here is a forum I hosted featuring GOP head Gary Jones, talk show host Ron Black and others. Watch it and formulate your opinion on me...rather than playing your infantile partisan games.

Local TV & Local Responsibility Part One (part 2 and 3 also available)

[betts]

You're off topic, Shunt, and it looks like you're one of those people who use issues for your own political ends. Let's talk arena. I'd like to see every reason you have for not voting for the arena outlined and sensibly articulated.

[shunt]

Sure, I'll do that after work...for now read the Zirin piece on my site Home - Oklahoma Media Awareness Alliance it says a lot about what I believe.

Anyway I think it's way more self-promotion and self importance than political ends. Im always up for some shenanigans....great way to get broads, just ask Henry Kissinger. Example:

[venture]

Ummm...to think there are forums out there that will ban people for being off topic or at least delete posts. Talk about a free pass here. :-P

The topic is about the arena...let's keep it to that. Not "Oh yeah sure I'll comment on that, but first here is more of the same off topic crap."

The Arena Sales Tax is one that would benefit OKC and the metro as a whole. It definitely helps to upgrade a minor league facility into one for the majors. I don't see the tax issue having much problem getting passed. I mean, people buying goods in OKC have been paying it for years now. It has definitely gone to help spur on projects that other cities could only dream about.

Unfortunately I'm a Normanite...so its not my place to debate, since I don't get a say. I guess you could say my vote is whether I continue to buy goods in OKC since that is where it impacts me. I've done it for how long now, and I doubt it is really going to shock me to not see that extra 1% being charged.

[adaniel]

Hey I don't think this deserves a whole new thread, but I was watching News9 and they conducted a poll. According to them, the proposed tax is supported by 54% versus 31% who are opposed. Also, 49% of the people polled indicated they would be interested in going to an NBA game in OKC. Perhaps more encouraging, it is supported by at least a plurality all age groups even though interest in attending an NBA game falls as the age groups get older. Very good news for OKC. You can watch the video on News 9's web site, just look in the video on demand box: News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | Politics

Yay! I'm getting excited!

[betts]

We need to move those undecided votes to yes, and make sure people who support the arena understand that it's important to get out and vote. People may assume since the last two MAPS taxes passed that this one will too, and they might not make the effort to go to the polls. But I think, with the new University of Washington request to the Washington legislature for $150 million for their stadium, the fact that that stadium would be funded using the same tax monies Clay Bennett asked for for the new arena, and the fact that the supporters of the arena issue are getting behind the U of W request means it's unlikely Seattle will build an arena, and far more likely that the Sonics will move now.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Polls are not accurate...we'll just have to wait until the vote happens.

[shunt]

It might be worthwhile to focus on the fact that Stern is trying to be the next Ben Siegel or Myer Lansky by extorting OKC or whoever else...he's no tough jew though, trust me...at best he's woody allen or allen dershowitz.

Stern reminds me of a joke an uber orthodox friend of mine told me up in NYC last year, which goes like this:

Did you hear about the jewish pedophile?
he jumped out of the bushes and said "hey kid wanna buy some candy?"

[solitude]

Just wanted to say that I agree with shunt 100% on this issue. I have written extensively about my opposition to this taxpayer giveaway in this thread.