Classen Boulevard

[mugofbeer]

Increasing interactions between motorists and bicyclists increases safety for all in that it causes drivers to drive more cautiously and be on the lookout for bicyclists/pedestrians, the caveat is that speeds need to be lower than 30 (which NW 23rd is but no one follows due to environmental cues making it easy to drive 35 down) If people want fast, free flowing traffic with two parking spots for every customer than they should go to Chisholm Creek. If people want a walkable, human centric neighborhood with parks and trees then you come to 23rd/Paseo.

23rd is supposed to be a major traffic artery. You're trying to turn it into a 16th street.

I would also disagree with your assessment that increased auto/bicycle interaction increases safety compared to my example of turning a sidestreet into an alternative-transportation-only. I would like to see unbiased support for your claim.

[GoGators]

23rd is supposed to be a major traffic artery. You're trying to turn it into a 16th street.

I would also disagree with your assessment that increased auto/bicycle interaction increases safety compared to my example of turning a sidestreet into an alternative-transportation-only. I would like to see unbiased support for your claim.

This section of 23rd already has the same speed limit as 16th. Both move through corridors with high pedestrian traffic. they should be designed similarly. "Turning it into 16th" just means getting people to drive the already posted speed limit, which we all want.

[josefromtulsa]

23rd is supposed to be a major traffic artery. You're trying to turn it into a 16th street.

I would also disagree with your assessment that increased auto/bicycle interaction increases safety compared to my example of turning a sidestreet into an alternative-transportation-only. I would like to see unbiased support for your claim.

23rd street is supposed to be a vibrant commerical district. Youre trying to turn it into MacArthur.

Heres some reading for you. What I said was not a personal opinion but the result of numerous studies here in the US and abroad.

Jacobsen, P. L. (2003) Safety in numbers: more walkers and bicyclists, safer walking and bicycling. Injury Prevention 9, 205-209 and 2004, Correction Injury Prevention, 10, 127.

Fyhri, A., Sundfør, H. B., Bjørnskau, T., & Laureshyn, A. (2016). Safety in numbers for cyclists—Conclusions from a multidisciplinary study of seasonal change in interplay and conflicts. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 105, 124-133.

Elvik, R., & Bjørnskau, T. (2017). Safety-in-numbers: A systematic review and meta-analysis of evidence. Safety Science, 92, 274-282.

Carlson, K., Murphy, B., Ermagun, A., Levinson, D. M., & Owen, A. (2018). Safety in numbers: Pedestrian and bicyclist activity and safety in Minneapolis.

[Jersey Boss]

Why the discussion about 23rd on this thread? Inquiring minds...

[Rover]

Why the discussion about 23rd on this thread? Inquiring minds...

Because it is tangentially related. LOL At least Classen crosses over 23rd. On most threads it doesn't even take that much contact to derail the thread.

[BDP]

23rd is supposed to be a major traffic artery. You're trying to turn it into a 16th street.

It's obviously both of these things. It was built out in the 30's as kind of a "strip". The road accommodated cars, but commercial development accommodated pedestrians.

Once it went in decline for decades, planners just focused on the traffic arterial aspect of it.

Now that it functions closer to how it was originally developed, that is, a walk-able strip of entertainment of dining, any changes to its structure should consider, but not favor, both of those things.

[Urbanized]

23rd is supposed to be a major traffic artery. You're trying to turn it into a 16th street.

I would also disagree with your assessment that increased auto/bicycle interaction increases safety compared to my example of turning a sidestreet into an alternative-transportation-only. I would like to see unbiased support for your claim.

http://news.unm.edu/news/research-sh...-roads-for-all
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...streets-safer/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...14140518301488
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...afer-everyone/
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...rs-study-shows

There are many others, but you get the gist.

[mugofbeer]

23rd street is supposed to be a vibrant commerical district. Youre trying to turn it into MacArthur.

Heres some reading for you. What I said was not a personal opinion but the result of numerous studies here in the US and abroad.

Jacobsen, P. L. (2003) Safety in numbers: more walkers and bicyclists, safer walking and bicycling. Injury Prevention 9, 205-209 and 2004, Correction Injury Prevention, 10, 127.

Fyhri, A., Sundfør, H. B., Bjørnskau, T., & Laureshyn, A. (2016). Safety in numbers for cyclists—Conclusions from a multidisciplinary study of seasonal change in interplay and conflicts. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 105, 124-133.

Elvik, R., & Bjørnskau, T. (2017). Safety-in-numbers: A systematic review and meta-analysis of evidence. Safety Science, 92, 274-282.

Carlson, K., Murphy, B., Ermagun, A., Levinson, D. M., & Owen, A. (2018). Safety in numbers: Pedestrian and bicyclist activity and safety in Minneapolis.

I read your studies with interest and they bring up interesting points. First, my thoughts were primarily commuter and family joyriding-oriented, not going-out-to-restaurant/bar oriented. Second, the studies focus on intersections and neighborhoods where pedestrian/bicycle activity is significant. It focuses on densely commercialized and densely populated urban areas and intersections.

23rd St. east of Classen lS a nice commercial district but to justify what you favor, there needs to be 1) much more commercial density, 2) much more urban residential and 3) much more pedestrian/bicycle activity than ypu currently have or likely would see for many years.

It is common sense than if your pedestrian volume is so high there is a constant danger of a car/pedestrian fatality (such as trying to get away from Owen Stadium after an OU game or driving a car through the state fair midway) then of course automobile driver's will be more careful and drive more slowly. The reality is NW 23rd pedestrian volume is nowhere near that kind of level right now. The same is true of Classen Blvd. OKC simply needs far more urban density to justify impeding auto traffic.

Here in Denver there absolutely ARE neighborhoods where restrictive traffic are warranted such as areas near the football stadium east to downtown, areas north of downtown, S. broadway and Colfax Avenues east and west of downtown. But central Denver is also far more densely populated than OKC. There are traffic restricted throughfares such as S. Broadway but there is little comparison between NW 23rd St. and Denver's S. Broadway. There is also little comparison between OKC and the cities in any of your studies due to density issues.

Again, where bicycle/pedestrian numbers are consistently high, what you are talking about is common sense. I don't see that much of anywhere in OKC except parts of downtown.

[SEMIweather]

I think you also have to consider that 23rd Street as currently designed doesn't even consistently move traffic in an efficient manner. Anytime a car tries to turn left onto any street from Shartel to Harvey during a busy time of the day, it's an absolute mess. Anytime a car tries to parallel park during a busy time of the day, it's an absolute mess. It's easy to see that there are ways to make this road safer for pedestrians and less frustrating for drivers.

[mugofbeer]

I agree 23rd has excess auto traffic at many times and that only makes my point more evident. Inhibiting traffic even further there would simply create a traffic nightmare DIScouraging people from frequenting the 23rd St. businesses.

Moving non-auto traffic to quieter, safer streets next to major traffic arteries would encourage more to use those alternative streets and transportation methods.

[Canoe]

I agree 23rd has excess auto traffic at many times and that only makes my point more evident. Inhibiting traffic even further there would simply create a traffic nightmare DIScouraging people from frequenting the 23rd St. businesses.

Moving non-auto traffic to quieter, safer streets next to major traffic arteries would encourage more to use those alternative streets and transportation methods.

Mug is right. It is one of the advantages of have a grid street system.

[Rover]

I agree 23rd has excess auto traffic at many times and that only makes my point more evident. Inhibiting traffic even further there would simply create a traffic nightmare DIScouraging people from frequenting the 23rd St. businesses.

Moving non-auto traffic to quieter, safer streets next to major traffic arteries would encourage more to use those alternative streets and transportation methods.

So, would the businesses move with them? The businesses people want to walk to and walk past are on 23rd, not the residential streets.

[Teo9969]

Can someone help me understand why the outer lanes on Classen are always falling apart as the road approaches the curb? The amount of potholes is truly impressive and it has to wreak havoc on our brand new rapid lines that are constantly driving over those potholes on the right side of the vehicle. And they always come back. As soon as one is patched, it either wears away quickly or pops up in a new spot. It's particularly bad between 36th and 44th.

[The]

Because the quality of construction here is an abomination. The weather also doesn’t help.