Classen Curve

[bjohn9]

Agreed, Pete. I split my time between Plano and OKC, and though I'm grocery averse, my wife loves Sunflower. WF is very expensive but worth the occasional look-around given their great selection. Another new entrant in DFW is Market Street, which builds huge stand-alones and would not be a fit for Classen Curve.

[foodiefan]

. . . I don't care what its' name is. . . I just want one!!

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

Was at Pearl's this afternoon for brunch and saw that there was a small fire at the Classen Curve site! Looks like just the last south-side building, top floor, took some damage. Fire fighters put things out quickly. Other than that it doesn't look that bad (not knowing squat about construction, however).

Here's hoping the damage didn't set things back too much...

[klhokc]

I would prefer a TRADER JOE'S ... go to their website and put in that you would like them to come to OKC! Their prices are very very reasonable.....and great food too!

[bbhill]

wow thats surprising considering the heavy rain we just received yesterday. . wonder what caused it. . . wouldn't be doing construction on a sunday. idt

[onthestrip]

I had brunch at Pearls as well on Sunday and noticed the same thing. I couldnt tell that it was a fire but there was a section on the corner of the southernmost building that had some brick missing. Didnt look like a big problem.

[soonerguru]

I've never been a big fan of Whole Foods. It would be great for OKC but I'm not 100% sure people would support the significantly higher price points.

As an example, I was having a big party last weekend and needed several swordfish steaks. I first went to Ralph's (the big chain out here but nicer than most grocery stores) and bought a few for about $7 a pound. The quality was great but they didn't have enough.

So off I went to Whole Foods as the location near me has a huge seafood section. Guess how much it was there? TWENTY ONE dollars a pound!! Now, it might have been of better quality but I didn't notice it when I prepared the meal.

Three freaking times as expensive!

I almost never shop at WF and strongly prefer Trader Joe's. I think TJ's or something similar would be a better fit for OKC, at least to kick-off the more upscale specialty groceries.

I've been thinking this for some time. Great points, Pete.

Aside from the economy, I wonder what is keeping Whole Foods out of this market. One thought is that we have 24 Wal-Mart Supercenters in this market, numerous Crests, Buy For Less, etc. This is a very price-conscious market, and it seems Whole Foods may not fit here very well.

I've never visited Trader Joe's, but I've heard great things about it. Here's hoping we have expanded grocery options here soon.

It's so bad in this city that shopping in smaller towns is often better. To wit, the produce, meat and seafood selection at Reasor's in Tahlequah is better than what we often have here.

It is just ridiculous that a city of this size has such a poor offering of grocery options.

[bluedogok]

It is just ridiculous that a city of this size has such a poor offering of grocery options.

Most cities have relatively little grocery competition after all the mergers, buyouts and closures. Here in Austin we are pretty much down to HEB/Central Market (San Antonio based) and Randall's (Safeway), we have a few others scattered around like a couple of Fiesta stores (based out of Houston) but for the most part it is the big two competing with Wal-Mart and a few Target supercenters. The consolidation of the industry has had the desired result everywhere, less competition for the survivors. This has led to an influx of the specialty grocery stores like I mentioned above but they are catering to a niche market, even Austin based Whole Foods is a niche food store here, most still get the "normal stuff" at HEB.

I know that my dad wishes HEB would open up stores up there, they mostly shop at the Windsor Hills Crest.

[carolace]

I'd go for a Trader Joe's any day! And I agree that it's a better fit for Oklahoma City and needs much less space than a WF. I do hope someone is listening to us!

[carolace]

What's keeping WF out of OKC is alcohol, or rather, lack thereof. Same is probably true of Trader Joe's. Their profit margin is greatly generated by the sale of wine and liquor. How would they make it here when they can not sell alcohol in a grocery store in Oklahoma????

[Turanacus]

Rumor: Heard that CHK is struggling to get any space leased. They are giving away the first 12 months just gain some tenants. Supposedly there is a restaurant/bar going in and an upscale clothing store, that's all I've heard. A lot of candidate tenants don't like the fact that there is very little street facing space.

[bbhill]

Looking at the site plan for classen curve, it looks like they built many of the units narrow and deep. It seems as of late that retailers are pushing for more and more frontage. This combined with the lack of street visibility as Turanacus mentioned seems like it could be a deal breaker for many potential tenants.

[tuck]

I think leasing is picking up. I also think that they got a slower start because of the economic conditions, not because of street visibility. The Classen Curve project mirrors many very successful high-end concepts around the country. This isn't a "strip center".

I am betting on a huge upside; don't see many negatives.

[OKCTalker]

Does anyone get the impression that they fixated on visual impact at the expense of utility and function? And remember that not everyone is a fan of Rand Elliott, so that had to have a negative impact on the marketing effort.

[stlokc]

I agree with Tuck. This isn't trying to be one of those strip malls on Memorial Road that is trying to grab the random passerby and desparately pull them in. This is a destination place...or at least I think that's what they are going for. Think Utica Square, or Highland Park Village or even Nichols Hills Plaza. Storefronts in those developments do not front the street. If retailers aren't savvy enough to understand that distinction, they probably don't belong there.

As for the design, sure, its a gamble. But the whole thing is a gamble.

[OKCMallen]

Rumor: Heard that CHK is struggling to get any space leased. They are giving away the first 12 months just gain some tenants. Supposedly there is a restaurant/bar going in and an upscale clothing store, that's all I've heard. A lot of candidate tenants don't like the fact that there is very little street facing space.

Utica Square has very little street facign space, too.

[Shake2005]

But Utica Square has half a million square feet, two very upscale department stores and an upscale grocery store making it a destination.

Classen Curve is only 90,000 square feet, that's pretty small for a "destination", unless this is just phase one of something larger, which would be nice, but where do they expand?

[OKCTalker]

I'd guess that CHK/Blanton's primary tenant prospects for Classen Curve was 50 Penn Place because they already have poor visibility, tight parking, ingress/egress problems onto high-speed streets, an uncommitted landlord and a tenants-in-common structure. Advantages of moving from 50 Penn to Classen Curve? Newer building, better-capitalized landlord, no tenants-in-common issues, and a little closer to Nichols Hills customers, and better ingress/egress. I don't think that CC was ever intended to be a future location for NH Plaza tenants, even in the short-term when the Plaza was being renovated/rebuilt. That rehab project (NHP) would have required shrinking the available NRA and/or even moving everyone north of Avondale so the original, older building could be redone first, and then filling up the new south building with top-drawer retailers, anchors (grocery & drug), and a legacy business or two. It also would have maintained the City of NH tax base which is heavily-dependent upon retail sales from the Plaza, and a critical political issue with their mayor & council.

[Pete]

The design at Classen Curve will probably be fine for restaurants but I'm not so sure about retail.

First of all, the timing is terrible and when a retail project stumbles out of the blocks and has big chunks of empty space to start out, it's hard to overcome that reputation.

Secondly, there is no real draw other than the two restaurants and their business tends to be concentrated in the evenings, and that doesn't help retail tenants that much.

And thirdly, there are a lot of other places on Western or nearby that a smaller tenant could easily lease that offer far better visibility.


I think the design and concept is much better suited to a larger development with something like a Whole Foods or TJ's and/or some other mid-sized anchor tenants.

But I wish them well.

[foodiefan]

90,000 Sq Ft?? Knock out a few walls and presto. . .Whole Foods??!! Central Market? TJ's??

[metro]

Rumor: Heard that CHK is struggling to get any space leased. They are giving away the first 12 months just gain some tenants. Supposedly there is a restaurant/bar going in and an upscale clothing store, that's all I've heard. A lot of candidate tenants don't like the fact that there is very little street facing space.

Yes, the bar/restaurant has already been confirmed by board member tuck. It is going to be called Republic and is going to be a gastropub. There is more info on that in another thread. Also as stated on the page before, the other announced tenant is 105 Degrees which will be a live/raw restaurant with a nationally known chef ( Welcome to 105degrees.com|Oklahoma's premiere Raw & Living Foods destination|Opening in Oklahoma City's Classen Curve in September ). No other tenants have been formally announced.

foodiefan, this project is 8 or so buildings, so "knocking out a few walls" isn't really an option for a Whole Foods, etc. These buildings are pretty much open air already. 1 maybe 2 tenants per building.

[john60]

Yes, the bar/restaurant has already been confirmed by board member tuck. It is going to be called Republic and is going to be a gastropub. There is more info on that in another thread. Also as stated on the page before, the other announced tenant is 105 Degrees which will be a live/raw restaurant with a nationally known chef ( Welcome to 105degrees.com|Oklahoma's premiere Raw & Living Foods destination|Opening in Oklahoma City's Classen Curve in September ). No other tenants have been formally announced.

foodiefan, this project is 8 or so buildings, so "knocking out a few walls" isn't really an option for a Whole Foods, etc. These buildings are pretty much open air already. 1 maybe 2 tenants per building.

It looks to me that based on the site plan on the website, Classen Curve, the plan appears to be to chop these buildings up into more like 4-8 smaller spaces per building that are only slightly larger than 1,000 square feet each. That doesn't seem like a sufficient amount of space for any type of serious retailer. Then again, I think the option exists to lease multiple sections right next to each other (as the site shows for 105 degrees when you zoom in on building E--they picked up all but the smallest section of the building) just because it looks like you essentially would have your pick of the bunch.

[onthestrip]

They are struggling to lease out 90k sf of commercial space that is probably priced on the high side? Shocking.

However, even in a good economy it would still take awhile to lease 90k sf without any big box type tenants.

[soonerguru]

Isn't this just a high-concept strip center? Sure, it has Elliot's design, but it's your basic OKC strip mall with some nice finishes and a pretentious air.

[metro]

Here's a picture of Republic: