Tiffany Apartments

[Urbanized]

I disagree, café. along with redoing Covell in the area that have put in new sidewalks along both sides of the road that feed into the surrounding neighborhoods as well. so you can walk to all those places if you want. depends on how much time you have.

but the real issue is that you can put a sidewalk or a new sidewalk anywhere in the city connecting everything making it all "walkable," but most people will still want to drive. if its stupid cold outside or stupid hot, Im driving. If not, ill contemplate a walk.

Why would you WANT to walk in most parts of the city? There is no good reason for it. Now, if goods and services are nearby and the walk is safe, rewarding and interesting, many more people WOULD walk, if even only occasionally. Good suburban development can involve planned proximity to those goods and services. When done well, it provides a small-town feel where you can walk out of your house, stroll past your neighbors' homes for a block or two, turn a corner and be smack dab in the middle of an attractive commercial area where you can buy essentials, grab coffee or lunch, say hi to your neighbors, stroll around (because it is appealing to do so) and walk back home. OR you can hop in your car, drive onto a feeder road, hit an expressway and be anywhere else in town. That is a GOOD SUBurban experience that - for the most part - we don't even OFFER in this city. This is a quality of life amenity that is nonexistent here.

OUR suburban experience mostly involves, as you say, driving everyplace. If you are stupid enough to try to walk somewhere you will generally have to walk through endless streets and cul-de-sacs until you emerge on a feeder road that is really more like an expressway, only to find that you are a mile (or miles) from the services you are looking for. No WONDER everyone prefers to drive...

[Teo9969]

The issue is that overall, we've given TOO much advantage to the car over the pedestrian, in these areas.

Not every thing needs to be pushed up to the street blah blah blah. But How many parking spots do we have that we don't need in this area? I'll tell you right now, the Target parking lot feels like it has acres worth of wasted space, and the development with Whataburger/D&Bs/etc. has way more parking than necessary. We are so accommodating to the car in OKC that we develop our lots so that 5 days out of the year (the 5 busiest days of Christmas shopping) people can still find 2 or 3 parking spots when trying to go somewhere instead of the normal 10 to 15. It's a heinous use of resources.

The orientation of buildings on lots makes walking incredibly uncomfortable and undesirable. It's impossible to walk to a development without walking in a parking lot. And it's ridiculous because it's totally unnecessary.

Take the Ferguson for instance. They could remove the front 2 to 4 spaces and extend and landscape the sidewalk from the street to the building. It would cost them no more than 4 parking spaces (and I assure you that's not going to break the bank), but if that standard was applied to every building in this area of town, it would do wonders to change the culture of how people operate in OKC.

But kudos to this design for structuring their parking UNDER the building. That's a good use of space. Those are the types of things that we need to see in this area of town. Parking garages and more development would be wonderful as well.

[Spartan]

PluPan, while I think there ARE a few lock-step urbanists here, I don't believe that is where the disconnect exists. I think the reason you see so many people bristle when you champion wide multi-lane raceways and massive parking lots is that most of the posters here are focused on making great PLACES, and making OKC a great PLACE. Freeways and expressways aren't great places. They merely serve to get you quickly from one place to another, and more often than not ugly things up and make places LESS accessible for many other people in the bargain.

There has been and will never be a parade down Northwest Expressway. Memorial Road will never appear on a post card. Simply put, they're not great PLACES.

There is no question that suburbs can be done well (or at the very least, better), but they haven't been done well here, and there are no sigs that is changing. Most people who post here have come to understand that big wide limited access roads, giant parking lots and big box developments are not a panacea, perhaps not even desirable, and that they are things that we already have PLENTY of. THAT is why you are hearing a backlash when you post about such things in glowing terms.

It's not even favoring one lifestyle over the other. Look at what we have. We have an endless prairie that gave way to suburban sprawl. We don't have a whole lot of urban living. In the interest of choice, what we need to do to continue our momentum is obvious. Nobody will cancel a move to OKC anytime soon for lack of available ranch or colonial houses.. But many successful people today are also looking for townhomes and industrial lofts and they would rather live in Kansas City or Denver if their lifestyle here would be lacking.

You seem to be debating yourself in many of these posts, but it sounds like our ideal isn't too far apart. We both want suburbs to succeed as quality places and urban neighborhoods to thrive and keep growing. NW Expwy and the whole box between Lake Hefner and Penn Square is a chance for a do-over and to maybe make the area into a smaller version of Uptown Houston or Dallas or Buckhead in Atlanta.

This area has an interesting combo of mixed uses and sheer density, and I think the time is right. If we're going to succeed at city-wide LRT or commuter rail we will need nodes of density and activity to create strong connections between. This would be very successful.

[AP]

It's not even favoring one lifestyle over the other. Look at what we have. We have an endless prairie that gave way to suburban sprawl. We don't have a whole lot of urban living. In the interest of choice, what we need to do to continue our momentum is obvious. Nobody will cancel a move to OKC anytime soon for lack of available ranch or colonial houses.. But many successful people today are also looking for townhomes and industrial lofts and they would rather live in Kansas City or Denver if their lifestyle here would be lacking.

You seem to be debating yourself in many of these posts, but it sounds like our ideal isn't too far apart. We both want suburbs to succeed as quality places and urban neighborhoods to thrive and keep growing. NW Expwy and the whole box between Lake Hefner and Penn Square is a chance for a do-over and to maybe make the area into a smaller version of Uptown Houston or Dallas or Buckhead in Atlanta.

This area has an interesting combo of mixed uses and sheer density, and I think the time is right. If we're going to succeed at city-wide LRT or commuter rail we will need nodes of density and activity to create strong connections between. This would be very successful.

Very well said, Nick. I agree.

[Urbanized]

Debating MYSELF? Do you have PluPan on ignore or something?

[MWCGuy]

I think sprawl is the wrong word for OKC. When I am up on the 10th floor at work, I see more trees than I do streets, houses and buildings.

[Plutonic Panda]

You're right; it doesn't mean everyplace HAS to be walkable. But I still don't think you grasp what "walkable" means from a planning perspective. A place can be SAFE to walk but still not be a place where people WANT to walk (i.e. "walkable"). Simply having good sidewalks means a place has accessibility. It's confusing. Personally, I don't think "walkable" is a good term for what we are trying to describe, but is the one that we are stuck with. On the surface it literally means "a place where you are ABLE to WALK." From a planning perspective, however, it means "a place where people WANT to walk." There is a difference.

I think I have the general concept of what walkability means(maybe not, idk), but as far as making this area walkable in the sense of how I am thinking of it, I'm not understanding how to do that without an extreme overhaul that would seriously hinder the efficiency of moving and getting cars through here and to the destinations that are here. I think whenever I say something like that, people seem to think I am against urbanism which is not the case I promise you.

[Spartan]

Debating MYSELF? Do you have PluPan on ignore or something?

Oh sorry, that's who I thought I was replying to lol..

I think sprawl is the wrong word for OKC. When I am up on the 10th floor at work, I see more trees than I do streets, houses and buildings.

Would love to hear what city you're looking at..

[traxx]

Why would you WANT to walk in most parts of the city? There is no good reason for it. Now, if goods and services are nearby and the walk is safe, rewarding and interesting, many more people WOULD walk, if even only occasionally. Good suburban development can involve planned proximity to those goods and services. When done well, it provides a small-town feel where you can walk out of your house, stroll past your neighbors' homes for a block or two, turn a corner and be smack dab in the middle of an attractive commercial area where you can buy essentials, grab coffee or lunch, say hi to your neighbors, stroll around (because it is appealing to do so) and walk back home. OR you can hop in your car, drive onto a feeder road, hit an expressway and be anywhere else in town. That is a GOOD SUBurban experience that - for the most part - we don't even OFFER in this city. This is a quality of life amenity that is nonexistent here.

OUR suburban experience mostly involves, as you say, driving everyplace. If you are stupid enough to try to walk somewhere you will generally have to walk through endless streets and cul-de-sacs until you emerge on a feeder road that is really more like an expressway, only to find that you are a mile (or miles) from the services you are looking for. No WONDER everyone prefers to drive...

Great points. I think if we had what you're talking about, areas where people want to walk, the ability to walk out of our house, stroll past the neighbors and turn the corner to an attractive commercial area, we could solve more than one problem. We would use less gas, we'd have a higher quality of living and we'd lose weight/become healthier. Most people don't like to walk purely for exercise. But if they can stroll down to commercial area and get a coffee or grab a gallon of milk etc., they'll do it.

The thing is, none of us on here appear to be urban planners, developers or movers and shakers. How do we affect this change? How do we get those who write the building codes, those who develop living and shopping areas, those with the political weight to start demanding and building developments like what Urbanized described?

[trousers]

As of last night it doesnt look like any demo work has started. Just some chain link put up.

[Dubya61]

We also need to understand this area as a community with it's own needs, and for far too long answering those has been dictated by those driving out to points further NW. Similarly, I concede that it's also not for the downtown crowd to answer this area's needs - but we need to put decision making for this area in the hands of the multitudes of high rise apartment and condo dwellers and office workers who use this neighborhood. They should be given the ability to harness this area's very high density levels and make something walkable of it.

If I could have "like"d this post I would have. I'd co-opt it one step further. I think that OKC is very fortunate to have many well identified smaller communities (MidTown, Deep Deuce, Founders, Capitol Hill, etc.). That's a great focus and I hope this community gets it's personality back.

[heyerdahl]

How do we get those who write the building codes, those who develop living and shopping areas, those with the political weight to start demanding and building developments like what Urbanized described?

Stay informed, and show up (email or in person) when something comes to commissions and council. Show up to planning meetings seeking public input. You'd be surprised how much a single letter to a councilman can affect things.

Proposed apartments near your neighborhood? Write an e-mail that says 'I don't know about apartments, but I'd love to have a walkable destination in my area. Maybe the apartments could be designed in a way that makes them a walkable destination including retail.'

etc etc. Write an e-mail even when nothing is proposed yet, describing what you wish your area would evolve into. All your commissioners and councilors. It really does work. Or at least, make a difference.

[ljbab728]

Would love to hear what city you're looking at..

Spartan, probably it's the one he actually lives and works in. Are you saying he is lying? I've seen numerous pictures posted here showing OKC from an elevated location where you mostly see trees.

[Spartan]

Spartan, probably it's the one he actually lives and works in. Are you saying he is lying? I've seen numerous pictures posted here showing OKC from an elevated location where you mostly see trees.

Well I don't know him personally so I don't know what he sees. It was mostly a joke bc OKC isn't the most forested city, but I still don't appreciate you putting the word "lying" in my mouth. You've been a cantankerous poster lately.

[CuatrodeMayo]

If you look at pretty much any city from a mid-rise building, it will appear dense with trees...it's simply a matter of perspective.

[Urbanized]

Sprawl and trees are not mutually exclusive. And Cuatro is right. It's not like OKC is heavily forested. Quite the opposite, really.

[Spartan]

Yeah sorry I really just meant it as an idle, passive, inconsequential little joke - didn't mean to change discussion. Back to NWX/May!

[Plutonic Panda]

If you think OKC has a lot of trees, you've obviously never been to ATl lol

[ljbab728]

Well I don't know him personally so I don't know what he sees. It was mostly a joke bc OKC isn't the most forested city, but I still don't appreciate you putting the word "lying" in my mouth. You've been a cantankerous poster lately.

I didn't put the word "lying" in your mouth. I merely asked if that was what you thought because you gave no indication of making a joke. As far as being a cantankerous poster, you would certainly be an expert on that.

And yes, enough of that. Back to the Tiffany Apartments.

[Spartan]

Ok

[lasomeday]

The fence has been up a while and the sign that has partially blown off says Cowen Construction. Cowen is out of Tulsa. Here is a link the project on their website.

Blog - Cowen Construction - page 15

They are calling it H20 Boutique Apartments. This place just keeps changing. The drawings look totally different as well.

[gopokes88]

Disappointing. Doesn't look like they are going to build that roof top bar either.

[Pete]

The property hasn't changed hands.

From the renderings posted in January 2014, looks just renovation without addition.

[HangryHippo]

Christ, that's effing hideous.

I know you have to have deep pockets for a good renovation, but I find it baffling that the renderings from earlier didn't drum up more interest and couldn't be completed. That would have been first rate for this project. Now we're back to more amateur trash.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow... please be kidding. This was awesome and now some firm from Tulsa is taking over and we're getting this?