Winstar World Casino

[chssooner]

It is interesting that the Adelson family (Sands Corp) purchased the Mavericks from Mark Cuban. That can’t be a coincidence. They have to feel pretty confident of in the future of gambling in Texas.

I think there is a grand plan to put an arena there, as well.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think it’s only a matter of time. Oklahoma has had chance after chance to do things like legalize recreational marijuana and benefit from the massive taxes produced by Texas flooding across the border and people here voted against it. Oklahomans get what they deserve. It pains me to say it because it’s my home state and I love it but if a full scale casino resort gets built the Indians will have to do something BIG to continue to draw visitors in the area.

Legalizing gambling much like marijuana is inevitable. It’s progress. You can delay it but you can’t stop it. It’s coming. With the right ideas and people behind it it doesn’t have to be a doomsday scenario.

I’ve always thought about things like building the world’s largest roller coaster park, a massive theme park, a huge artificial diving facility like Dubai’s, an artificial indoor ski resort, etc. Let’s start off with a Bucee’s.

[Bowser214]

Better Hurry because Mark Cuban is lobbying to make DFW the next Vegas.

[PhiAlpha]

Yes. If a Venetian/Wynn style resort is built IN DFW, then WinStar's appeal really goes down with distance. Tulsa is fortunate to have two nice resorts in RiverSpirit and Hard Rock, but even they can't match what Vegas offers in size and scale, but far enough away from DFW they may not be impacted too much. However, as much advertising and naming rights as Choctaw Casino Resort and WinStar do in DFW, I can't imagine they wouldn't try to compete with a physical location (if that is possible?).

Choctaw isn't quite Venetian or Wynn level yet but it's very nice and about the closest to a Vegas style resort/casino that I've been to outside of Vegas (Mohegan Sun in CT was probably the next closest). Winstar is making an effort to reach that level with the new additions they're making. If approved DFW could obviously out do them but they would have a lot of catching up to do.

[soonergolfer]

For the life of me, I don't understand why the Chickasaw tribe has not built a large hotel resort, like Choctaw, as close to OKC limits as possible. Newcastle could build a resort/casino (non-smoking) in their current parking lot and capture most of the OKC market. Plus it is fairly close to the airport. There has to be some reason there.

[Scott5114]

For the life of me, I don't understand why the Chickasaw tribe has not built a large hotel resort, like Choctaw, as close to OKC limits as possible. Newcastle could build a resort/casino (non-smoking) in their current parking lot and capture most of the OKC market. Plus it is fairly close to the airport. There has to be some reason there.

It may have changed since the 6 years I worked there, but my experience was that Newcastle management is generally penny wise, pound foolish, which explains a lot about the state of the facility. "You have to spend money to make money" is totally lost on them. Any push for reimagining it as a resort would have to come from someone in Ada, and Ada never really seemed to care all that much about the Northern Region gaming facilities from what I could tell. (It's not just Newcastle; other than the addition of the hotel and skybridge, Riverwind has never had an expansion of any sort.)

[Teo9969]

I would think they would want OKC people to continue to go down to Winstar when they feel the need for that level of experience. Why create competition for yourself and have to maintain 2 resorts (and 3 after Okana opens) when you can just get the daily/casual gambling into the smaller metro casinos?

[Dob Hooligan]

I would think they would want OKC people to continue to go down to Winstar when they feel the need for that level of experience. Why create competition for yourself and have to maintain 2 resorts (and 3 after Okana opens) when you can just get the daily/casual gambling into the smaller metro casinos?

I agree with you. I thought I read somewhere that the Chickasaw were waiting to expand Newcastle casino until after their Indian health complex is up and running.

[soonergolfer]

I would think they would want OKC people to continue to go down to Winstar when they feel the need for that level of experience. Why create competition for yourself and have to maintain 2 resorts (and 3 after Okana opens) when you can just get the daily/casual gambling into the smaller metro casinos?

I would be surprised if more than 20% of Winstar overnight stay business comes from OKC, aside from a concert. Personally, I’d rather travel north to the hotel/casino outside of Wichita, where you can legally bet on sports. Maybe Newcastle doesn’t need to build a resort, but they should start work on at least a casino similar to Riverwind. The prefab buildings are just cheap, awkward and pretty gross. Plus they have one “restaurant” and you can leave that place without smelling like an ashtray. At least Riverwind put in a non smoking area and upgraded their air circulation system.
I guess I’m just puzzled on why they haven’t done anything with Newcastle.

[Teo9969]

I would be surprised if more than 20% of Winstar overnight stay business comes from OKC, aside from a concert. Personally, I’d rather travel north to the hotel/casino outside of Wichita, where you can legally bet on sports. Maybe Newcastle doesn’t need to build a resort, but they should start work on at least a casino similar to Riverwind. The prefab buildings are just cheap, awkward and pretty gross. Plus they have one “restaurant” and you can leave that place without smelling like an ashtray. At least Riverwind put in a non smoking area and upgraded their air circulation system.
I guess I’m just puzzled on why they haven’t done anything with Newcastle.

Even 10% would be a huge number to then have to create a similar experience in another area.

[shavethewhales]

The Chickasaw nation has it's hands full for sure with several big projects and they just completed a huge expansion to Winstar. Adding a major OKC casino resort does make sense, but you can only do so much at once. The Newcastle casino will eventually get there - I'm sure that's why they built that huge parking garage.

My understanding is that one of the main values in having a large hotel at a casino is that they comp rooms to the bigger gamblers so they stay and lose more money. It's not really about the actual demand for a hotel, lol. One has to wonder how much the gambling market is growing however. I know it's getting bigger every year, but since the vast majority of gamblers lose over time, how sustainable is the growth?

[bison34]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...gambling-push/

The numbers that Texas is throwing out there are insane! But, it just shows how much Oklahoma stands to lose if they do legalize gambling in Texas. Texas will allow corporate casinos, which will blow most casinos in Oklahoma away, and force them to shut down (near the border, that is).

Even Winstar and Choctaw Grand can't really compete with Vegas-style resorts, for the most part.

Time will tell. 2026 could be a big year.

[shavethewhales]

Yup, the writing is on the wall. The conservative forces that have kept gambling out of TX this long are weakening, and regardless - money talks. Gambling has unfortunately been growing at a rapid pace throughout America for the past decade. I actually just got back from a quick trip to Vegas myself. The casinos there are far superior to what we have in Tulsa. Most of the slot machines are the same everywhere, but they have a better variety in Vegas - plus better food, better entertainment, better things going on around the casinos in general so you aren't stuck in one place. Hard to compete with that.

One thing is for sure: when TX legalizes we can finally get rid of the 50c ante for table games. That is one of the primary things holding OK casinos back.

[bison34]

Yup, the writing is on the wall. The conservative forces that have kept gambling out of TX this long are weakening, and regardless - money talks. Gambling has unfortunately been growing at a rapid pace throughout America for the past decade. I actually just got back from a quick trip to Vegas myself. The casinos there are far superior to what we have in Tulsa. Most of the slot machines are the same everywhere, but they have a better variety in Vegas - plus better food, better entertainment, better things going on around the casinos in general so you aren't stuck in one place. Hard to compete with that.

One thing is for sure: when TX legalizes we can finally get rid of the 50c ante for table games. That is one of the primary things holding OK casinos back.

The Oklahoma legislature hates that there is legal gambling here. Unfortunately, there is not a weakening of the hatred of gambling withing the legislature, either. We will never have corporate, Vegas-style gambling here. Heck, getting sports betting to pass has been like pulling teeth, since the legislature and governor dislike the tribes so much.

[Pete]

I bet if Texas passes more comprehensive gambling permissions, Oklahoma will quickly follow suit and we'll be in a way better position with our existing facilities to quickly implement and beat them to the punch. Plus, the bigger tribes have tons of casino earnings to reinvest.

[BoulderSooner]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...gambling-push/

The numbers that Texas is throwing out there are insane! But, it just shows how much Oklahoma stands to lose if they do legalize gambling in Texas. Texas will allow corporate casinos, which will blow most casinos in Oklahoma away, and force them to shut down (near the border, that is).

Even Winstar and Choctaw Grand can't really compete with Vegas-style resorts, for the most part.

Time will tell. 2026 could be a big year.

even if it passed in 25 or 26 in texas (which is very very unlikely) it won't have any impact on winstar until well into the next decade ..

[BoulderSooner]

The Oklahoma legislature hates that there is legal gambling here. Unfortunately, there is not a weakening of the hatred of gambling withing the legislature, either. We will never have corporate, Vegas-style gambling here. Heck, getting sports betting to pass has been like pulling teeth, since the legislature and governor dislike the tribes so much.

things that are not true for 100 .. alex

[bison34]

things that are not true for 100 .. alex

Tell me what progress or changes have come in the gambling world in Oklahoma in the past few years?

[bison34]

I bet if Texas passes more comprehensive gambling permissions, Oklahoma will quickly follow suit and we'll be in a way better position with our existing facilities to quickly implement and beat them to the punch. Plus, the bigger tribes have tons of casino earnings to reinvest.

I hope so. I just know from auditing entities at the Capitol that the love for gambling in this state at that level is very low. But I hope you are right, Pete.

[onthestrip]

I hope so. I just know from auditing entities at the Capitol that the love for gambling in this state at that level is very low. But I hope you are right, Pete.

I dont doubt thats the case. Gambling does very little for our state, brings a small amount in for education, not a lot of other positives from it. The tribes have maybe the best deal of any state and pay super low percentage of their revenues to the state. Thats why sports gambling is going nowhere. Stitt wants to use legalization of it as a carrot to renegotiate the compacts. However, the tribes of course want to keep the sweet deal and sports gambling doesnt move the needle enough for the tribes. Sports betting brings in a fraction of what slots bring the tribes.

[Dob Hooligan]

I have been reading the same story for over 10 years, IIRC. The late Sheldon Adelson from Las Vegas Sands was chasing Texas practically since the day he got the license for Bethlehem Pennsylvania, and he decided that Texas was the last, largest State without gaming. Sands has spent over $200 million lobbying the Texas legislature and nothing has changed.

I think Texas is much like Oklahoma, in that the big cities are not loved by the power structure that allows the rural interests to have outsized control.

I will admit I don't follow Houston politics, and gambling interests, anywhere near as much as north Texas. But, I never hear anything about Galveston native son Tilman Fertitta working the Texas lege for casinos in the Houston area.

[Jersey Boss]

the oklahoma governor hates that there is legal gambling here. Unfortunately, there is not a weakening of the hatred of gambling withing the legislature(?), either. We will never have corporate, vegas-style gambling here. Heck, getting sports betting to pass has been like pulling teeth, since the governor dislike the tribes so much.

fify

[Jersey Boss]

I dont doubt thats the case. Gambling does very little for our state, brings a small amount in for education, not a lot of other positives from it. The tribes have maybe the best deal of any state and pay super low percentage of their revenues to the state. Thats why sports gambling is going nowhere. Stitt wants to use legalization of it as a carrot to renegotiate the compacts. However, the tribes of course want to keep the sweet deal and sports gambling doesnt move the needle enough for the tribes. Sports betting brings in a fraction of what slots bring the tribes.

https://www.unitedforoklahoma.com/economic-impact/

This is malarky. The nations contribute to roads, education and in other numerous and substantial ways. Educate yourself.

[Jersey Boss]

even if it passed in 25 or 26 in texas (which is very very unlikely) it won't have any impact on winstar until well into the next decade ..

This is accurate and true. Too many sky is falling worries.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm typing without googling, but, I think the tribal gambling tax rate is 6% or so. And it is equal, or very close, to the Nevada rate. If you are a low taxes stimulate economic growth type, then I would suggest that both Nevada and Oklahoma casinos are prime examples of that.