Lexford Park (formerly First Christian Church)

[mugofbeer]

There is a water pool on the west side of the sanctuary. There is also a tunnel system that zig zags under the sanctuary that a person can walk along but also carries water. Fans blow through the tunnel system to cool air by evaporation, like a swamp cooler. The system is long enough there is kind of a cave effect for cooling air. The tunnels were also used, at one time, for a 60s bomb shelter, complete with barrels of candy, crackers and water that l helped empty. Its been a long time since l was in there so l can't recall if the sanctuary had a/c for the hottest days but l recall it only being used for the educational building. I could see a similar system being used in newer buildings.

[Urban Pioneer]

In his chat today, Lackmeyer said they'd hire Box, not surprised. Also, he was pretty much condemning the congregation/church for being greedy, not having any respect for the community, and condemning the buyer for staying secret. Quite a few folks saying "just sell it and bulldoze it already". Very strange opinions on his chat today about it.

I find his blanket condemnation of the church membership as a whole insulting and offensive. He is not a member there. It is inappropriate for a member of the press to espouse flagrant commentary on a entire church membership’s opinion on this situation and pass it off as news. Furthermore, he doesn’t have accurate information about the situation. You can tell in the commentary he is just ticked that they won’t call him back.

[okatty]

^ If I ever drop my Oklahoman subscription there are a few things I would miss. He is NOT one of them.

[Dob Hooligan]

I am not a member of the church and have zero first hand knowledge of any part of this situation. But it sure looks like there is a person or persons in a position of influence who stand to gain financially from the destruction of the complex. The activities of the last couple weeks give the appearance a secret deal with local people.
This is how it looks from the outside.

[mugofbeer]

Aren't or wasn't the local office of the Disciples of Christ church located in FCC? Who owns the church? Where would the money go to? I'm thinking it may be the DOC Church?

[Urban Pioneer]

Aren't or wasn't the local office of the Disciples of Christ church located in FCC? Who owns the church? Where would the money go to? I'm thinking it may be the DOC Church?

The state of Ok Disciples Office seems face 36th just east of the church. I believe either the church sold them or donated the property to them some years ago. Not sure of this for certain, but yes, the state offices are adjacent.

[Urban Pioneer]

I am not a member of the church and have zero first hand knowledge of any part of this situation. But it sure looks like there is a person or persons in a position of influence who stand to gain financially from the destruction of the complex. The activities of the last couple weeks give the appearance a secret deal with local people.
This is how it looks from the outside.

The church board simply wants to retain the right to entertain all offers and bids to their membership. While I am completely against the destruction of this awesome Midcentury complex, the board is soliciting all offers and trying to preserve their property rights.

A church is more than buildings. It is a community. I gather that they want to ensure that some of the choices at hand include continuing their existence as a community for as long as possible (both with the buildings remaining intact and also selling to those that would tear them down).

In Lackmeyer’s commentary about the church’s obligation to the adjacent neighborhoods, the earlier Humphreys development proposal that included preserving the buildings seems to have been forgotten. The neighbors killed that proposal. Just pointing that out.

[BronchoSilverback]

Given the abrupt destruction of FNB, and the alleged contract here involving an anonymous buyer, many are understandably on edge about the historic church, and ill-considered rhetoric may be being expressed in various contexts.

I attended the meeting at the Will Rogers where Humphreys presented his proposal for the site. There was a lot of concern expressed about the project by neighbors, but I wouldn't characterize it as a knee-jerk, NIMBY reaction. I'm not a planner, but the proposal seemed extremely dense given the size of the plot and its proximity to an established, historic neighborhood. The meeting concluded with Humphreys saying a traffic study would be done and we'd re-convene when the results were forthcoming. I don't recall hearing anything after that meeting.

Perhaps there were intervening events that I wasn't aware of that that may have led to a characterization, which I've read in various places, of neighbors killing the proposal. I live in Edgemere Park, and am not closely connected with local players, so it's highly possible I wasn't privy to other skirmishes occurring in Crown Heights. But my perception was that Humphreys got spooked by reasonable neighborhood concerns, didn't feel like doing the hard work of negotiating and consensus-building, and rolled up his plans and walked away (understandably) to do something easier. It may sound like semantics, but I wouldn't call that the neighborhood killing the proposal. There's no onus on a neighborhood to accept such a plan as is, and it seems unfair, based on what I know, to lay the current problem, implicitly or otherwise, at the feet of Crown Heights for not rolling over on Humphreys' plan.

For me personally, despite being surprised about how much was jammed into that parcel, I thought it was an interesting concept and was open-minded about it. At the time, I was disappointed that there was no further discussion or developments. But I also empathized with the concerns of people who have a lot invested in their home and neighborhood, both financially and in social capital.

To bring the convo back to the present, ideally the plot could be dealt with in a thoughtful way, appropriate for the location, preserving the structures, and taking the interests of all stakeholders into account. I also hope the church representatives fully appreciate how their community benefited from the larger community for decades, not the least in the form of tax exemptions, and thus feel some larger, social obligation.

[Urban Pioneer]

Well put Broncho. I couldn't agree more. As a member, what I can say is that the volunteer board members feel obligated to entertain all offers and present them to their membership. We haven't been asked to vote on anything. As a result of all of the activism and awareness, I think it is general knowledge that several additional offers that include preserving the buildings have come into being as a result. That is why in my earlier posts, I stated that I remained hopeful.

[Pete]

Historic First Christian Church gets 3 more offers

After OKCTalk broke the news that a potential buyer of First Christian Church had plans to demolish the iconic sanctuary, 3 new purchase offers have been made to the church board.

We have also learned that the church is not under formal contract to sell the property to any buyer and that all offers are likely to be presented to the congregation for vote before any final deal is struck.
EAK]
The church property has been listed for sale for over 2 years, but only after it became known a buyer had stepped forward with a plan to buy and demolish were other offers tendered. Of the 4 offers, at least 2 include promises to preserve the church buildings.

The amounts proposed by the various parties are not currently known, but the 32-acre property is currently listed at $5.65 million, representing a substantial reduction from the initial asking price of more than $8 million.

In the case of a least one contract, the church board has signed a non-disclosure agreement that prohibits them from disclosing details, including the identity of the buyer.

Tomorrow, city councilman Ed Shadid will introduce a resolution to commence a process that could lead the church to be rezoned as a historic landmark, thus protecting it from substantial changes and demolition.

First Christian has hired attorney David Box to oppose the change in zoning.

The situation with the church is very similar to that of Classen Circle. When OKCTalk broke the story that Braum's was planning to purchase and demolish the historic Donnay Building in July of 2017, a public outcry led to protests and utlimately Braum's withdrew their plans. Quickly thereafter a new buyer stepped forward which is now in the process of renovating the property.

Preservationists hope for the same outcome here, where an offer is accepted that would preserve the egg-shaped church and the other related mid-century structures, such as the Jewel Box Theater.

No formal action by the church is expected for at least a month. If Shadid's resolution passes tomorrow, a 180-day moratorium against demolition will start, regardless of the final historic landmark vote.

[Plutonic Panda]

Please forgive me for beating a dead horse, but imagine if this same scenario of soliciting proposals to save this structure played out for the Founders Building, Charcoal Oven Building, Film Exchange Building, Harvestor Building, and dare I say, the block where the BOK tower is at and the Stage Center. I suspect we would still have have those buildings, the development that replaced them would have happened nearby regardless, and the overall urban fabric of the city would be better off because of it.

I don't mean to stir this discussion up again, but rather than be thankful this situation has played out for this building and the Donnay building. At least if this church is torn down, there was a decent attempt in saving it. I suspect however in the end it will be saved and a nice development surrounds it.

[Colbafone]

It is a little funny that David Box is the attorney with something like this. Again.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^but this time he's on the other side of the debate haha

[Pete]

Please forgive me for beating a dead horse, but imagine if this same scenario of soliciting proposals to save this structure played out for the Founders Building, Charcoal Oven Building, Film Exchange Building, Harvestor Building, and dare I say, the block where the BOK tower is at and the Stage Center. I suspect we would still have have those buildings, the development that replaced them would have happened nearby regardless, and the overall urban fabric of the city would be better off because of it.

I don't mean to stir this discussion up again, but rather than be thankful this situation has played out for this building and the Donnay building. At least if this church is torn down, there was a decent attempt in saving it. I suspect however in the end it will be saved and a nice development surrounds it.

The problem with all those (except Film Exchange) was the word didn't get out until it was too late.

Give OKCTalk it's due... If First Christian gets saved, this fine publication will deserve a fair bit of credit, similar to Classen Circle.

[Colbafone]

^^^but this time he's on the other side of the debate haha

He's RUTHLESS I tell ya what!

[Plutonic Panda]

The problem with all those (except Film Exchange) was the word didn't get out until it was too late.

Give OKCTalk it's due... If First Christian gets saved, this fine publication will deserve a fair bit of credit, similar to Classen Circle.

I am giving OKCTalk it’s due. Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough. OKCTalk will be the very reason this building survives if it does which is much more likely now to happen. You know me Pete, I always support OKCTalk!

My point was if there was a change in laws regarding demolitions of these types of buildings, word could get out and there could be ample time to save them. The building wouldn’t have to have only one salvation of a news piece being it’s only hope. Mistakes happen and things slip by, though thankfully you have been on top of everything.

I know some of the other examples are reaching like the Film Exchange building where it was known for awhile it was to be demolished, but the city really didn’t even give it a chance to be developed into part of the park or convention center which could have been done. If the Charcoal Oven or Founders Building was given enough time and marketed right, I put it on my soul a developer would have came in and made it into something great saving the buildings.

[Pete]

^

There are changes in the works. The Planning Dept. is working on identifying key structures and placing them on a protected list, especially those that fall outside the existing design review district.

They need to hurry up before anything worth saving is long gone.

[Plutonic Panda]

Is there any hope to expand the design review so it encompasses more of the city. I think an expanded design review would do wonders for beautifying the city and imposing better standards for more aesthetically appealing buildings along with the added benefit of preserving historic buildings.

[Laramie]

OMG let's hope it's not too late. OKCTalk has been on this since the intentions of the church stewards were first revealed. This structure needs to be saved.

We have two dome like structures (Egg shell/Gold dome) left in this city; would definitely support money for MAPS 4 to purchase these structures, allow the city to re-purpose them.

[OKCRT]

OMG let's hope it's not too late. OKCTalk has been on this since the intentions of the church stewards were first revealed. This structure needs to be saved.

We have two dome like structures (Egg shell/Gold dome) left in this city; would definitely support money for MAPS 4 to purchase these structures, allow the city to re-purpose them.

Seem like these domes would make great concert venues. But I really don't know,just seems like they would for some reason.

[rte66man]

Seem like these domes would make great concert venues. But I really don't know,just seems like they would for some reason.

In general, acoustics in a dome are not good for music concerts. Too many competing echoes.

[Dob Hooligan]

This reminds me of an event from the 1970s I was told of in the 1990s.
Friend of mine told me about how his father had been in an administrative role with OU in the 1970s which involved management of properties in the Lincoln Terrace neighborhood, south of the state capitol. Demographic changes, urban renewal and white flight had made the houses "white elephants" that had low cash value, but smart citizens had begun to donate them to the university upon the death of their parents, for a high "tax deductible" value. University hospital system had begun to use them as warehouse space and they were failing into disrepair. Sensing the problem, our hero had placed them in a high profile position of risk, and the public outrage had saved the houses.

[Urban Pioneer]

There is a water pool on the west side of the sanctuary. There is also a tunnel system that zig zags under the sanctuary that a person can walk along but also carries water. Fans blow through the tunnel system to cool air by evaporation, like a swamp cooler. The system is long enough there is kind of a cave effect for cooling air. The tunnels were also used, at one time, for a 60s bomb shelter, complete with barrels of candy, crackers and water that l helped empty. Its been a long time since l was in there so l can't recall if the sanctuary had a/c for the hottest days but l recall it only being used for the educational building. I could see a similar system being used in newer buildings.

The area where the children’s playground was a “reflecting pool’” for the bell tower. Jets spouting water were used to cool the system. This was converted to EVAPCO cooling towers years later. I have a photograph of it in use.

[Midtowner]

Seem like these domes would make great concert venues. But I really don't know,just seems like they would for some reason.

I've played gigs at FNC. The acoustics are a huge challenge.

[Urban Pioneer]

Landmarking First Christain Church vote postponed until the April 9th council meeting. Tons of people spoke.