The American Heartland Theme Park and Resort

[Plutonic Panda]

I could see NE Oklahoma become a tourist Mecca like SE Oklahoma is becoming.

[Jersey Boss]

Right now it is but the potential for growth is there. We’ll see what happens. I personally don’t care and I’m not expecting much. My opinion of Tulsa is it’s not a very nice town but has potential. I don’t like the place but I could see it building off of NWAs momentum.

Maybe the exact comparisons between current vanita and 1950 Orlando don’t make sense but my point is they are/were very small towns for the size of the theme parks proposed of course Disney was much larger and ambitious.

Dusney World started construction in the 1960's, not 1950. Disney also had name recognition and a sucessful brand going back to the early 20th century. Florida was already a tourist destination. Olahoma not so much.
There are no comparissons.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m not going around in circles anymore. Pete say I’m ridiculous. Anyone else say there is no comparison. I’ll beat the dead horse one more time and I say there is. Let’s see what happens with this sh!t.

[BDP]

In order to reach their ambitious opening date, wonÂ’t they need to break ground immediately?

I think it's hard to know at this point. Basically, it seems like everything we know about this has come from press releases issued by the developers (and maybe some statements by local officials). And there is no doubt that this information from their PR arm seems very ambitious in terms of scope and timeline, but, it also isn't likely to be saying what many seem to think it's saying.

For example, the 2 billion dollar figure. There's no breakdown in the press release, so I'm assuming that's for the entire development. Some have been taking that number and comparing it to the cost of other amusement parks. But there is nothing that indicates that is the amount being spent on the theme park itself. There are several components to this and the RV park, which is set to open first according to the release, is actually more than 2 times bigger, land wise, than the theme park is. That is a massive RV park. There's also mention of a 300 room resort hotel. They say "1000 acre" development, but we don't know if the land acquisition costs are included that $2 billion figure. My guess is that it would be.

I am not a developer, but I would guess they could probably get the RV park open by their stated open date. It's even possible they could get the amusement park open by the press release's stated date, but what does that really mean? Both could be officially open for business by that time, but would that be at the full scope and working amenities shown in the press releases and promo materials? Who knows? That would indeed be impressive.

Are they building a $2 billion dollar theme park in northeastern Oklahoma that will rival a Disney park in three in a half years? No. The press release doesn't really even indicate that, so it's weird that anyone is coming to that conclusion. Even at face value they are saying they're building a massive RV park, a resort hotel, and a theme park about 25% bigger than silver dollar city with a similar Americana theme. That's not nothing by any standard, but I think that comparisons to Disney World or the idea that this will transform Vinita into the next Orlando over the next couple of decades are a little strange. The press release suggests 5 million people will visit this development a year. By comparison, Branson, as a whole, gets 10 million visitors a year. Silver Dollar City gets 2.2 million or so.

Objectively, it sounds as if Vinita is going to get a world class RV park and, if that works, a nice theme park and resort to go with it. That will be nice for northeastern Oklahoma commerce, but I don't see anything concrete in the information we have now that it will be something that will transform the area into an international hub as some of suggested.

[Jake]

The website for the theme park literally says “Opening Fall 2026” so maybe that’s why people are coming to that conclusion.

[BDP]

The website for the theme park literally says “Opening Fall 2026” so maybe that’s why people are coming to that conclusion.

I just meant that even if they're able to meet that target, it doesn't mean it will be fully completed to the extent that they're showing in the press releases. I agree with you it sounds ambitious in context of what these renderings and press conference models show, but they could also open it with a fraction of what's shown and technically meet that date.

It's really all just guessing at this point, but what we've seen so far is more like campaign promises than a detailed road map of how it's actually going to be implemented. There could easily be phases to the amusement park and campgrounds that allow for them to officially open them before they're fully realized.

[Paseofreak]

Y'all seem to forget that the Space Coast (Melbourne, Cocoa, Titusvillle, Orlando) was booming during the 60's and 70's.

[G.Walker]

"Family where do you want to go for summer vacation this year, DisneyWorld & Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida or American Heartland Theme Park in Vinita, Oklahoma?"

I rest my case, lol....

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This park will be for parents who don’t ask their children where they’d like the family to go for vacation. And parents who actively don’t want to go to Disney.

[shavethewhales]

^Uh, you actually just made a case for this park. Many people in the central US can't/won't go to Disney. That's a huge part of the economic logic behind this, such as it is. Disney got prohibitively expensive last year, but apparently crowds have been lighter this year and prices may fall? It's still a huge pain for a family to fly out to Orlando and stay in a resort within Disney's kingdom. Driving to Vinita isn't much of a struggle for people from a multi-state region, including Texas.

BDP makes some good points. Would love to see a breakdown of what they are planning to open and when. $2 billion as a total buildout over the course of a decade or more is much more reasonable than it being plopped down all at once. They are making it sound like a lot is already in motion. Just have to wait and see what shows up at this point.

[FighttheGoodFight]

^Uh, you actually just made a case for this park. Many people in the central US can't/won't go to Disney. That's a huge part of the economic logic behind this, such as it is. Disney got prohibitively expensive last year, but apparently crowds have been lighter this year and prices may fall? It's still a huge pain for a family to fly out to Orlando and stay in a resort within Disney's kingdom. Driving to Vinita isn't much of a struggle for people from a multi-state region, including Texas.

BDP makes some good points. Would love to see a breakdown of what they are planning to open and when. $2 billion as a total buildout over the course of a decade or more is much more reasonable than it being plopped down all at once. They are making it sound like a lot is already in motion. Just have to wait and see what shows up at this point.

I'd say the small universal in Texas will take most of that crowd. Universal has the big rides and big IP names.

But also I will eat a shoe if this actually gets made to what they are showing in the renderings.

[Zuplar]

"Family where do you want to go for summer vacation this year, DisneyWorld & Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida or American Heartland Theme Park in Vinita, Oklahoma?"

I rest my case, lol....

You seem like the same kind of person that wonders how Long John Silvers stays in business.

News flash, people have different preferences.

[G.Walker]

I understand there is a niche for "This Is Merica" conservative families in the Bible Belt that will frequent to this park. But lets stop comparing it to DisneyWorld, its not even close.

Again, its in the middle of nowhere. I just don't see people booking flights and carving out a week vacation to go there. We will see...

[fortpatches]

I think it's hard to know at this point. Basically, it seems like everything we know about this has come from press releases issued by the developers (and maybe some statements by local officials). And there is no doubt that this information from their PR arm seems very ambitious in terms of scope and timeline, but, it also isn't likely to be saying what many seem to think it's saying.

For example, the 2 billion dollar figure. There's no breakdown in the press release, so I'm assuming that's for the entire development. Some have been taking that number and comparing it to the cost of other amusement parks. But there is nothing that indicates that is the amount being spent on the theme park itself. There are several components to this and the RV park, which is set to open first according to the release, is actually more than 2 times bigger, land wise, than the theme park is. That is a massive RV park. There's also mention of a 300 room resort hotel. They say "1000 acre" development, but we don't know if the land acquisition costs are included that $2 billion figure. My guess is that it would be.

I am not a developer, but I would guess they could probably get the RV park open by their stated open date. It's even possible they could get the amusement park open by the press release's stated date, but what does that really mean? Both could be officially open for business by that time, but would that be at the full scope and working amenities shown in the press releases and promo materials? Who knows? That would indeed be impressive.

Are they building a $2 billion dollar theme park in northeastern Oklahoma that will rival a Disney park in three in a half years? No. The press release doesn't really even indicate that, so it's weird that anyone is coming to that conclusion. Even at face value they are saying they're building a massive RV park, a resort hotel, and a theme park about 25% bigger than silver dollar city with a similar Americana theme. That's not nothing by any standard, but I think that comparisons to Disney World or the idea that this will transform Vinita into the next Orlando over the next couple of decades are a little strange. The press release suggests 5 million people will visit this development a year. By comparison, Branson, as a whole, gets 10 million visitors a year. Silver Dollar City gets 2.2 million or so.

Objectively, it sounds as if Vinita is going to get a world class RV park and, if that works, a nice theme park and resort to go with it. That will be nice for northeastern Oklahoma commerce, but I don't see anything concrete in the information we have now that it will be something that will transform the area into an international hub as some of suggested.

I'm one of the ones comparing that $2bln figure to other parks. Just to be clear, the new Universal Studios park, Epic Universe, is going to be 750 acres, which actually doubles the size of Universal. Universal has said that the land will also include an entertainment center, hotels, shops and restaurants, and there's certainly enough room for it all. It is slated to open 2025. That has a price tag of an estimated $1bln and includes over $150mil provided to the County to expand roads around the area. So, to recap, the difference between what we know between Epic Universe and American Heartland= American Heartland will have roughly 250 more acres and an RV park for only $1 billion more.

[shavethewhales]

I'd say the small universal in Texas will take most of that crowd. Universal has the big rides and big IP names.

But also I will eat a shoe if this actually gets made to what they are showing in the renderings.

The universal resort in Texas will indeed be fairly small (at least by big destination park standards) and is aimed almost exclusively to younger kids. The larger Universal parks are for everyone, and even Disney gets a broad visitor base even though it's theoretically a kid's park. I don't think it will soak up the entire market for theme park entertainment. Even with both it at Six Flags, there's millions upon millions of people around Dallas alone and the Texas market is huge and underserved. I'm actually still surprised that Universal didn't opt for a more standard sized theme park in Dallas. They are building a second park in Orlando as we speak for pete's sake.

[Zuplar]

I understand there is a niche for "This Is Merica" conservative families in the Bible Belt that will frequent to this park. But lets stop comparing it to DisneyWorld, its not even close.

Again, its in the middle of nowhere. I just don't see people booking flights and carving out a week vacation to go there. We will see...

No need to get political. I'm sure there are people from all types of background that might enjoy an American Themed amusement park.

[Urbanized]

No need to get political. I'm sure there are people from all types of background that might enjoy an American Themed amusement park.

In fairness it seems that this development is inherently political in nature. If you check out the podcast of the lead investor he is all-in on the culture war stuff. Pretty sure this is intended to be an anti-Disney alternative park, and that the target market is people within reasonable driving distance (most of the central U.S.). I don’t think they give two ****s about missing the jet set crowd.

[PhiAlpha]

I think it's hard to know at this point. Basically, it seems like everything we know about this has come from press releases issued by the developers (and maybe some statements by local officials). And there is no doubt that this information from their PR arm seems very ambitious in terms of scope and timeline, but, it also isn't likely to be saying what many seem to think it's saying.

For example, the 2 billion dollar figure. There's no breakdown in the press release, so I'm assuming that's for the entire development. Some have been taking that number and comparing it to the cost of other amusement parks. But there is nothing that indicates that is the amount being spent on the theme park itself. There are several components to this and the RV park, which is set to open first according to the release, is actually more than 2 times bigger, land wise, than the theme park is. That is a massive RV park. There's also mention of a 300 room resort hotel. They say "1000 acre" development, but we don't know if the land acquisition costs are included that $2 billion figure. My guess is that it would be.

I am not a developer, but I would guess they could probably get the RV park open by their stated open date. It's even possible they could get the amusement park open by the press release's stated date, but what does that really mean? Both could be officially open for business by that time, but would that be at the full scope and working amenities shown in the press releases and promo materials? Who knows? That would indeed be impressive.

Are they building a $2 billion dollar theme park in northeastern Oklahoma that will rival a Disney park in three in a half years? No. The press release doesn't really even indicate that, so it's weird that anyone is coming to that conclusion. Even at face value they are saying they're building a massive RV park, a resort hotel, and a theme park about 25% bigger than silver dollar city with a similar Americana theme. That's not nothing by any standard, but I think that comparisons to Disney World or the idea that this will transform Vinita into the next Orlando over the next couple of decades are a little strange. The press release suggests 5 million people will visit this development a year. By comparison, Branson, as a whole, gets 10 million visitors a year. Silver Dollar City gets 2.2 million or so.

Objectively, it sounds as if Vinita is going to get a world class RV park and, if that works, a nice theme park and resort to go with it. That will be nice for northeastern Oklahoma commerce, but I don't see anything concrete in the information we have now that it will be something that will transform the area into an international hub as some of suggested.

FYI the land acquisition costs were $7 million or slightly more than that if you include other associated costs. They have around 1700 acres, given that there’s an in owned tract in the middle of their acreage leads me to believe they aren’t finished but time will tell if they spend more. Either way, a drop in the $2 Billion bucket but also not insignificant.

[PhiAlpha]

"Family where do you want to go for summer vacation this year, DisneyWorld & Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida or American Heartland Theme Park in Vinita, Oklahoma?"

I rest my case, lol....

And now do a potential price comparison for a family of 4-5. Driving vs flying. Accommodation at Disney vs a Hotel or RV Park in Vinita. And too far out to say for certain but I’m guessing significantly cheaper admission pricing vs Disney world.

Disney might be a once in a childhood experience (I was fortunate to have one opportunity growing up), but this (similar to SDC or six flags) might be an annual or bi-annual option even for some families that may not ever be able to afford one trip to Disney.

[Rover]

And now do a potential price comparison for a family of 4-5. Driving vs flying. Accommodation at Disney vs a Hotel or RV Park in Vinita. And too far out to say for certain but I’m guessing significantly cheaper admission pricing vs Disney world.

Disney might be a once in a childhood experience (I was fortunate to have one opportunity growing up), but this (similar to SDC or six flags) might be an annual or bi-annual option even for some families that may not ever be able to afford one trip to Disney.

And yet I know quite a few for whom Orlando is an every year destination. They have time shares, etc. Disney, Universal, and the others, as well as the Orlando dining scene and other entertainment, means they can keep going and see and do different and more things every year. And, the weather in Orlando in the winter offers a respite from biting Oklahoma winters. I just don't see that kind of tourism happening in this part of Oklahoma.

[PhiAlpha]

And yet I know quite a few for whom Orlando is an every year destination. They have time shares, etc. Disney, Universal, and the others, as well as the Orlando dining scene and other entertainment, means they can keep going and see and do different and more things every year. And, the weather in Orlando in the winter offers a respite from biting Oklahoma winters. I just don't see that kind of tourism happening in this part of Oklahoma.

Yes some people can afford to do that. I know some people who can also afford to have a beach house, a lake house complete with half million to two million dollar boat, and a house on a ski resort...and can even fly to each of them! I know people who just upgraded from one private jet to a bigger one.

How do you think the cost of all that in Orlando/Disney compares to something like driving to Silver Dollar City or Six Flags? The point is that many families can't afford to take an annual trip to Disney but could afford to drive to a nice resort in Oklahoma every year or two and not blow their entire entertainment budget for the next 3 years to do so.

[Bunty]

"Family where do you want to go for summer vacation this year, DisneyWorld & Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida or American Heartland Theme Park in Vinita, Oklahoma?"

I rest my case, lol....

If the family has already been to Orlando before, then Vinita is likely to win out.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m not going around in circles anymore. Pete say I’m ridiculous. Anyone else say there is no comparison. I’ll beat the dead horse one more time and I say there is. Let’s see what happens with this sh!t.

You know, I gave it some thought and my comparison was ridiculous. I went and looked up some numbers and I don’t know what the hell I was thinking.

[warreng88]

And yet I know quite a few for whom Orlando is an every year destination. They have time shares, etc. Disney, Universal, and the others, as well as the Orlando dining scene and other entertainment, means they can keep going and see and do different and more things every year. And, the weather in Orlando in the winter offers a respite from biting Oklahoma winters. I just don't see that kind of tourism happening in this part of Oklahoma.

That would be me and my family. This year we bought into Disney Vacation Club (Disney's timeshare). We are going to Disney next week for an extended weekend for my wife's birthday. Flights were about $1,100 through southwest. Direct OKC to MCO on the way out there and connecting in Austin on the way home. We were season passholders for four years and let our annual passes lapse in October of 2021. We would go 3-4 times per year. Most of the time we drove (18 hours, overnight stop in Olive Branch, MS, Tupelo or Atlanta area) over two days. We have stayed on property, off property, VRBO, Airbnb, Club Level at the Beach Club and every where in between. The draw for Disney is several things:

1. Year round good weather (for the most part)
2. The Disney Bubble is real. When you are there, it's like a different world
3. Activities for all ages. Want to drink around the world? Got it. Want a six month old to go on the tea cups? Got that too. And everything in between
4. Service and people is top shelf. In our more 15+ years going to Disney, I have maybe 2-3 bad experiences with an employee (cast member). Every sit down dinner, servers are very nice, informed and helpful. Cast Members at parks are usually in a good mood, smiling and helpful.
5. The theming is great. There are certain small details at Disney that people might not notice but the designers have put in so people would have with it (google search hidden mickey's in WDW).
6. At Disney World, if you don't go that often, you need a week to make sure you can do a lot. We have been to Disney hundreds of times (days, not trips) and there are still things we haven't done.

Beyond all that, my dad and his family grew up in Orlando. He was born in 1946 and was 20 years old when Disney announced it was coming to Orlando. It might have been small, but it didn't have just 5,000 people. The point of all this is comparing the potential of this theme park to Disney is not needed. Just say it is inspired by Disney and ex-Imagineers from Disney are working on it.

[Bunty]

According to this video Bicknell apparently has the money to build it: