OKC Light Rail System?

[Plutonic Panda]

Why can't light rail go faster, I don't understand that. If maglev tech can really go that fast, that's friggin awesome

[Just the facts]

Rail will NEVER reduce traffic. It never has and study after study shows that it doesn't. In fact, I am not aware of a study anywhere that concludes rail removes congestion and in fact, park and ride lots increase traffic on the road leading to the train station while latent demand back-fills the empty spots on the interstate from the cars now going to the park and ride lot so we actually end up with more congestion, not less. People will always chose to voluntarily spend hours in traffic for any number of reasons.

[venture]

Rail will NEVER reduce traffic. It never has and study after study shows that it doesn't. In fact, I am not aware of a study anywhere that concludes rail removes congestion and in fact, park and ride lots increase traffic on the road leading to the train station while latent demand back-fills the empty spots on the interstate from the cars now going to the park and ride lot so we actually end up with more congestion, not less. People will always chose to voluntarily spend hours in traffic for any number of reasons.

Exactly. If anything rail is going to open it up to allow to avoid having to build new lanes of interstate every so often to keep up with traffic. It also gives more opportunities to people that don't travel by car right now.

The trick to a rail network work we almost have to ensure we have a very good network from the state. Thankfully most of the lines are done and we can do that with commuter rail.

[Just the facts]

1. I base that on Engineering / Design / Contracting / Contruction / ( typical construction cycle). Now, I think the question you need to ask is this "what is the speed rating that this Light Rail is approved for?" This could be placed in the Highest Speed Rating ( Flat land & no curves...straight from Norman to Edmond.).
2. The technology MAGLEV produces speeds over 300 mph. We may only want to authorize speeds to 150 pmh.
3. No, Orlando is using this technology, but does not need the High Speed Rating w/ curves / etc. , thus only having a 50 mph. rating.

You quoted a price for a system that is only designed to go 50 mph, but only reached 17 mph in testing, and gets free right of way access. How much would a maglev that speeds along at 300 mph and has to acquire right of way cost per mile?

Also, OKC is not trying to implement light rail. I have not heard a single point in any position of authority in the entire state of Oklahoma utter the word light rail, let alone actually propose it.

[OKVision4U]

Rail will NEVER reduce traffic. It never has and study after study shows that it doesn't. In fact, I am not aware of a study anywhere that concludes rail removes congestion and in fact, park and ride lots increase traffic on the road leading to the train station while latent demand back-fills the empty spots on the interstate from the cars now going to the park and ride lot so we actually end up with more congestion, not less. People will always chose to voluntarily spend hours in traffic for any number of reasons.

JTF ...you will appreciate this: 391,000 Customers ride this each day. 143 Mil. people ride each year.

High Volume | Central Japan Railway Company

Just think, those 391,000 people are not on the highways sitting in traffic. Risking their lives in the ODOT Highway Death Traps.

[hoya]

JTF ...you will appreciate this: 391,000 Customers ride this each day. 143 Mil. people ride each year.

High Volume | Central Japan Railway Company

Just think, those 391,000 people are not on the highways sitting in traffic. Risking their lives in the ODOT Highway Death Traps.

No one in Japan risks their life on ODOT Highways. Just sayin'.

[OKVision4U]

You quoted a price for a system that is only designed to go 50 mph, but only reached 17 mph in testing, and gets free right of way access. How much would a maglev that speeds along at 300 mph and has to acquire right of way cost per mile?

Also, OKC is not trying to implement light rail. I have not heard a single point in any position of authority in the entire state of Oklahoma utter the word light rail, let alone actually propose it.

This is how "ideas" get sidelined. Ex. ACOG here two options of Rail ..1. Light Rail estimate $3 Billion , when they hear that they freeze on site. Now the next alternative is only $30 / $50 mil... Then all of sudden, that idea is the BEST idea. It is called sticker shock. This is a great tool to use when you represent AMTRAK.

[OKVision4U]

No one in Japan risks their life on ODOT Highways. Just sayin'.

Hoya, you have no clue to the subject JFT and i were discussing. Please read first, then comment. Try again, because what you said was "well just not anywhere close to intelligent".

[venture]

JTF ...you will appreciate this: 391,000 Customers ride this each day. 143 Mil. people ride each year.

High Volume | Central Japan Railway Company

Just think, those 391,000 people are not on the highways sitting in traffic. Risking their lives in the ODOT Highway Death Traps.

You aren't helping your case. You are among people who want rail for the most case, but you aren't being realistic.

Here is my idea for a regional rail/transit solution: Weather Spotlight | OKC Commuter Rail

The vast majority of that network is on existing lines - at least for the commuter rail lines (all the colored lines). Brown/Tan are BRT or street car lines. My idea is also for the full build out. I would imagine a system that doesn't include the various extensions (Mustang-Lawton, Noble-Pauls Valley, Downtown-Shawnee) would be what we need very close to launch to make it viable for people.

[CuatrodeMayo]

You aren't helping your case. You are among people who want rail for the most case, but you aren't being realistic.

Here is my idea for a regional rail/transit solution: Weather Spotlight | OKC Commuter Rail

The vast majority of that network is on existing lines - at least for the commuter rail lines (all the colored lines). Brown/Tan are BRT or street car lines. My idea is also for the full build out. I would imagine a system that doesn't include the various extensions (Mustang-Lawton, Noble-Pauls Valley, Downtown-Shawnee) would be what we need very close to launch to make it viable for people.

Excellent work!

[OKVision4U]

You aren't helping your case. You are among people who want rail for the most case, but you aren't being realistic.

Here is my idea for a regional rail/transit solution: Weather Spotlight | OKC Commuter Rail

The vast majority of that network is on existing lines - at least for the commuter rail lines (all the colored lines). Brown/Tan are BRT or street car lines. My idea is also for the full build out. I would imagine a system that doesn't include the various extensions (Mustang-Lawton, Noble-Pauls Valley, Downtown-Shawnee) would be what we need very close to launch to make it viable for people.

Venture... JTF had said that ALL studies show that congestion / traffic will Never lessen because of rail. I demonstrated how a country ( Japan ) uses rail. Now, this is not a study, but a company that makes billions every year on ridership.

Yes, i am very realistic. I see that "gap" that exists from today, to tomorrow. But I also know, that if start on this path of "commuter rail", just because someone says "we already have a few pieces of the puzzle in place", that doesn't mean we should put all our eggs in that basket.

[OKCisOK4me]

This reminds me of Torea but with a constantly blowing whistle (train horn)...

[OKVision4U]

This reminds me of Torea but with a constantly blowing whistle (train horn)...

OK, glad you could make it. Maybe you could shed some light on the ACOG direction? ....anything?.....

[BoulderSooner]

This is a great tool to use when you represent AMTRAK.

What in the world does Amtrak have to do with future Okc metro commuter rail? Answer nothing

[OKCisOK4me]

What in the world does Amtrak have to do with future Okc metro commuter rail? Answer nothing

Better yet, what does Amtrak have to do with MAGLEV or Japan?

[Just the facts]

I have to admit, this whole Amtrak reference has me confused. Other than the Heartland Flyer to Ft Worth and a possible extension to Wichita or maybe Tulsa, I don't know how Amtrak factors in to OKC rail. Also, did I get accused of working for Amtrak?

[CaptDave]

Maybe because Amtrak ran a commuter line or two around Chicago years ago? Amtrak was the operator for VRE until Veolia won the contract. I don't understand it otherwise.

[CaptDave]

You aren't helping your case. You are among people who want rail for the most case, but you aren't being realistic.

Here is my idea for a regional rail/transit solution: Weather Spotlight | OKC Commuter Rail

The vast majority of that network is on existing lines - at least for the commuter rail lines (all the colored lines). Brown/Tan are BRT or street car lines. My idea is also for the full build out. I would imagine a system that doesn't include the various extensions (Mustang-Lawton, Noble-Pauls Valley, Downtown-Shawnee) would be what we need very close to launch to make it viable for people.

Combining that with Cuatro's expanded streetcar network and modern bus service would put OKC near the top of the heap for transit in cities our size.

[venture]

Combining that with Cuatro's expanded streetcar network and modern bus service would put OKC near the top of the heap for transit in cities our size.

Very much so. If I get board one day I might play around and make some fake schedules to figure out fleet size and a rough estimate on costs to build out. Oh I need a winter storm soon...

[Snowman]

I did not say it would be Less expensive. But the timeline for commuter is at 10 + years. The timeline for the maglev line to Norman to Edmond would be somewhat equal in time.

Can it interact with normal rail? I doubt the rail companies that own the track will want to give up there existing lines, may not be thrilled about selling land near the line with the chance inperpetuity to have a parallel track they can not use and rule out expansion if demand picks up and if it can not switching downtown will be a nightmare.

The 10+ in this case is more political and budgetary. If we had the political will, were flush enough with cash and none of the railroads or government agencies had any objection you could probably have a line up less than a year, mostly delayed by getting the paperwork approved. Granted the more amenities at the stops probably would add some time, but when the Heartland Flyer started some only had a temporary platform that looked like you could put up in less than a week.

[OKVision4U]

I have to admit, this whole Amtrak reference has me confused. Other than the Heartland Flyer to Ft Worth and a possible extension to Wichita or maybe Tulsa, I don't know how Amtrak factors in to OKC rail. Also, did I get accused of working for Amtrak?

JTF...no I'm not saying you work for AMTRAK. Just using YOU in the third person. When I speak of AMTRAK, I am referring to the "HEAVY DIESEL ENGINE" group we have today, that want to keep us in the dark ages, and keep things the same, ex. ( BNSF)

[OKVision4U]

Can it interact with normal rail? I doubt the rail companies that own the track will want to give up there existing lines, may not be thrilled about selling land near the line with the chance inperpetuity to have a parallel track they can not use and rule out expansion if demand picks up and if it can not switching downtown will be a nightmare.

The 10+ in this case is more political and budgetary. If we had the political will, were flush enough with cash and none of the railroads or government agencies had any objection you could probably have a line up less than a year, mostly delayed by getting the paperwork approved. Granted the more amenities at the stops probably would add some time, but when the Heartland Flyer started some only had a temporary platform that looked like you could put up in less than a week.

Yes, the 10+ years is the timeline for this. When you include railroads into the dicussion, it gets delayed and pushed way back. Their not real warm when it comes to change.

[OKVision4U]

When you build w/ LIght Rail , it provides far more flexiblity in location(s) ( use existing ODOT Highway R.O.W. ). In OKC's location, we have a built in advantage that other may not be able to take advantage of. We already have a somewhat ( straight line from Norman to OKC. OKC to Edmond. ) and the area is realatively flat.

We don't have to go over large hills / winding roads / ...or a city that has been here since 1785 ( like a Boston or Philadelphia) and has a lot a special considerations in layout. This drives the cost up a great deal. Our layout is clean. Design is simple. 95% of the runs are straight. This will make our ( unit cost per mile, much less).

[Just the facts]

JTF...no I'm not saying you work for AMTRAK. Just using YOU in the third person. When I speak of AMTRAK, I am referring to the "HEAVY DIESEL ENGINE" group we have today, that want to keep us in the dark ages, and keep things the same, ex. ( BNSF)

Can you provide a picture of what you mean by 'Heavy Diesel Engine' because I picture this when you say that. This is something a freight railroad would use.



But most new non-electric commuter rail systems use these MPXpress Commuter Locomotives made by MotivePower.



Yes, they both burn diesel but comparing them is like comparing a dump truck to a BMW 535d.

[OKVision4U]

Can you provide a picture of what you mean by 'Heavy Diesel Engine' because I picture this when you say that. This is something a freight railroad would use.



But most new non-electric commuter rail systems use these MPXpress Commuter Locomotives made by MotivePower.



Yes, they both burn diesel but comparing them is like comparing a dump truck to a BMW 535d.

chuggggga..... chugggggga....chuggggga..... I don't see any resemblance to any BMW. Yes, that is what I am referring to. Large / Heavy / Diesel..this one just has a "modern" paint job to look "quicker".