Cannabis

[LandRunOkie]

In the last 5-6 years there have been more deaths in Mexico than there was during the Vietnam war and it has nothing to do with the fact that Mexico relaxed their drug laws, rather it has everything to do with Americans appetite for drugs.

Not if you include the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese government concluded 2 million Vietnamese civilians died during the war. It turns out the hippies were right and Nixon was wrong, we shouldn't have been involved in that mess.

[kevinpate]

you bumped a post 12 minutes after you made it? What, did ya take a toke and forgit when ya posted?

[stick47]

There are instances when I answer my cell while driving. I don't answer if it would create a possible risk. FYI I've been driving for 50 years and that includes having an M stamp on my license plus more than a few years of drag racing. (on the track where it's legal)
My level of driving ability is probably not going to improve but I think I'm still far above the average motorist as far as skill level goes.

[Kokopelli]

I was more curious as to whether you thought cell phone use while driving was an inducement for impaired driving and if you think the use of cell phones while driving should be banned? In other words I am trying to figure out if you are just against marijuana or impaired driving.

[stick47]

MJ impairs 100% of the time. You can't compare that to cell phone use. Esp when as I said, maybe only used when level of risk is low.

[stick47]

Sorry but aside from pain relief I just don't see why anyone needs a conscious altering supplement to cope with their life.

[jett713]

Well if you don't like to alter your consciousness don't smoke or drink. But to tell someone else they can't alter their consciousness, if they so desire, is their business and no one else's. As long as they don't hurt anyone else, then it is no one's business but their own.

[NoOkie]

Sorry but aside from pain relief I just don't see why anyone needs a conscious altering supplement to cope with their life.

If pot were legal I'd definitely spend the occasional Friday night smoking a blunt, watching a bad action movie and killing a bag of Oreos. Back when I was young, rebellious and didn't have to hold down a well paying job and support a family, I treated pot just like I treat alcohol: Something to unwind with, or to enjoy with friends.

Side note: I've known plenty of people in my career that were regular pot smokers. In an office job, as long as you're not showing up stoned or taking regular drug tests, it really doesn't make a difference.

[soonerguru]

Sorry but aside from pain relief I just don't see why anyone needs a conscious altering supplement to cope with their life.

This is an example of you imparting your personal mores on others, kinda like the Puritans. People have used mind-altering substances for centuries. Animals use them. Jesus drank wine -- and maybe smoked some killer indica as well.

[stick47]

If you get behind the wheel under the influence you're committing a crime and also jeopardizing public safety. I imagine you disagree with that though.

[jett713]

Just because someone gets high does not mean they are going to go out driving. Just like not all people that drink alcohol are going to get behind the wheel.

[Bunty]

If you get behind the wheel under the influence you're committing a crime and also jeopardizing public safety.

So the public seems to handle okay over the counter drugs that cause drowsiness. I don't know of any crusade going on to ban sales of them.

[stick47]

Well good luck in passing that job related drug test then. Ya know even if pot is legalized it's still going to seriously limit opportunities for better paying jobs.

[venture]

Well good luck in passing that job related drug test then. Ya know even if pot is legalized it's still going to seriously limit opportunities for better paying jobs.

I've known plenty of people hold off when needing to in order to pass the tests. I also had a boss who enjoyed it every weekend and he was pulling in $1.5M a year in pay. Damn that pot keeping him from getting a better paying job. LOL

[jett713]

Well good luck in passing that job related drug test then. Ya know even if pot is legalized it's still going to seriously limit opportunities for better paying jobs.

I'm sure if cannabis were legalized at the federal level, they would no longer test for it as they don't test for alcohol. Unless you go to work drunk. You kind of sound like the kid who is going to take his toys and go home, if cannabis were to be legalized. I know plenty of people who smoke on a regular basis and make good money.

[onthestrip]

I'm sure if cannabis were legalized at the federal level, they would no longer test for it as they don't test for alcohol. Unless you go to work drunk. You kind of sound like the kid who is going to take his toys and go home, if cannabis were to be legalized. I know plenty of people who smoke on a regular basis and make good money.

Employers in CO and WA can still test employees and new hires for pot, and obviously fire them or not hire them if they fail.

[jett713]

Employers in CO and WA can still test employees and new hires for pot, and obviously fire them or not hire them if they fail.

I did say when it was legalized at the federal level.

[boscorama]

I'm sure if cannabis were legalized at the federal level, they would no longer test for it as they don't test for alcohol. Unless you go to work drunk. You kind of sound like the kid who is going to take his toys and go home, if cannabis were to be legalized. I know plenty of people who smoke on a regular basis and make good money.

Cannabinoids are the cash cow of the drug testing industry. If not for pot, the only positives would be amphetamines, opiates, and ANGEL DUST (boy, I bet those users get popped at work often, lol).

No way, NO way, would they drop pot, any more than they'd give up testing for improper (nonprescribed) use of otherwise legal substances.

Add: Pot remains on the list not because it's dangerous; simply, it's detectable in urine far longer than any other prohibited substance. Positive drug tests sell drug hysteria.

$

[boscorama]

oooooh...

[stick47]

Dude..

[LandRunOkie]

Marijuana use was very popular on college campuses during the Vietnam era. Most of the Vietnam protests were led by college students so Nixon saw them as the enemy. He commissioned a study about what to do about marijuana. When he learned that the study recommended marijuana to be decriminalized, he tore it up in pieces. He blamed the legalization movement on the Jews:

You know, it's a funny thing, every one of the bastards
that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish. What the
Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob? What is the matter
with them? I suppose it is because most of them
are psychiatrists.

And the next year saw a dramatic increase in marijuana arrests. That's right, modern marijuana policy is brought to you by the same man who authorized Watergate (illegal espionage), Kent State (4 dead protesters in Ohio), and the Cambodia firebombings (largest American war crime).

[BlackmoreRulz]

If I had my choice I would rather my kids smoke a little pot rather than take up drinking alcohol

[PennyQuilts]

If I had my choice, my kids would drink wine or beer at the dinner table and leave the rest alone. More and more studies are showing that kids' brains are affected by pot in detrimental ways that might not affect adults the same way, and let's face it, the pot kids smoke, these days, is much stronger than it was decades ago. I saw nothing good come from teens smoking pot as a guardian ad litem, and plenty just horrible in terms of memory impairment (even when not stoned), lack of motivation, school achievement dropping off, poor social skills and interactions, retarded maturity and addictive personality development. It also allows underlying mental illness to more easily gain a foothold. Excessive drinking is no good, either, but to pretend pot smoking is no big deal for kids, IMO, is dangerous. It is very dangerous for some kids (perhaps not all) but you just don't know which ones will be severely affected.

For that matter, it would worry me more to have my kids running with a bunch of potheads than kids who sneak beer. I say that from purely practical reasons - kids who drink can more easily hide it and if they are drinking, chances are if their parents don't know it, it is more likely because they were fooled. Plenty of good parents with good intentions are fooled by sneaky kids. it means they were fooled - it doesn't mean they aren't making a good effort to set a safe environment.

But kids who smoke have clothes and rooms that reek. Parents of the kids who ignore the smell are liable to be either potheads, themselves, dysfunctional parents who let their kids run wild, or clueless. How many of those parents are going to call the kid's parents and tell them that, although they let their own child smoke, they want to make sure it is okay for the neighbor kid to join in? They won't. They will just look the other way and that sets kids up to end up in a smoking den with no real adult supervision.

Good parents might let their kids drink at a certain age, in moderation, but I can't see good parents throwing open the bar for the neighbor kids to do the same because they'd realize that wouldn't be appropriate. Maybe I was wrong but I let my kids have a short glass of wine or beer with dinner (at home) beginning they were in their mid teens (16 - 17). We treated it as a learning experience and would discuss different types of wine or beer, how it was brewed, moderation, etc. But I can't imagine having one of their friends over and offering them alcohol without their parent's permission. And I wouldn't serve my kids alcohol if we had company because that is something another parent might not feel comfortable with.

Kids sneaking behind the barn to smoke or drink is one thing. It happens. Kids whose families tolerate unsupervised drinking, smoking, etc. and allow other parents' kids to use their home as a safe haven tend to be bad news because there is a break down in boundaries. I wouldn't trust those families to properly keep an eye out for my kid.

[NoOkie]

If I had my choice, my kids would drink wine or beer at the dinner table and leave the rest alone. More and more studies are showing that kids' brains are affected by pot in detrimental ways that might not affect adults the same way, and let's face it, the pot kids smoke, these days, is much stronger than it was decades ago. I saw nothing good come from teens smoking pot as a guardian ad litem, and plenty just horrible in terms of memory impairment (even when not stoned), lack of motivation, school achievement dropping off, poor social skills and interactions, retarded maturity and addictive personality development. It also allows underlying mental illness to more easily gain a foothold. Excessive drinking is no good, either, but to pretend pot smoking is no big deal for kids, IMO, is dangerous. It is very dangerous for some kids (perhaps not all) but you just don't know which ones will be severely affected.

For that matter, it would worry me more to have my kids running with a bunch of potheads than kids who sneak beer. I say that from purely practical reasons - kids who drink can more easily hide it and if they are drinking, chances are if their parents don't know it, it is more likely because they were fooled. Plenty of good parents with good intentions are fooled by sneaky kids. it means they were fooled - it doesn't mean they aren't making a good effort to set a safe environment.

But kids who smoke have clothes and rooms that reek. Parents of the kids who ignore the smell are liable to be either potheads, themselves, dysfunctional parents who let their kids run wild, or clueless. How many of those parents are going to call the kid's parents and tell them that, although they let their own child smoke, they want to make sure it is okay for the neighbor kid to join in? They won't. They will just look the other way and that sets kids up to end up in a smoking den with no real adult supervision.

Good parents might let their kids drink at a certain age, in moderation, but I can't see good parents throwing open the bar for the neighbor kids to do the same because they'd realize that wouldn't be appropriate. Maybe I was wrong but I let my kids have a short glass of wine or beer with dinner (at home) beginning they were in their mid teens (16 - 17). We treated it as a learning experience and would discuss different types of wine or beer, how it was brewed, moderation, etc. But I can't imagine having one of their friends over and offering them alcohol without their parent's permission. And I wouldn't serve my kids alcohol if we had company because that is something another parent might not feel comfortable with.

Kids sneaking behind the barn to smoke or drink is one thing. It happens. Kids whose families tolerate unsupervised drinking, smoking, etc. and allow other parents' kids to use their home as a safe haven tend to be bad news because there is a break down in boundaries. I wouldn't trust those families to properly keep an eye out for my kid.

I did some googling, and found multiple sources that do agree with you on THC concentrations. Interestingly, one of them stated that while potency has gone up, the average amount used has gone down. It's a pro marijuana site, so hardly unbiased, though. I do think the research on TCH's effects on a developing brain is very interesting, but there are studies that show similar problems with alcohol consumption.

To your main point, though, I think that your heart is in the right place. Kids need to be taught how to responsibly handle things like alcohol and drugs. With alcohol, it's easy. Give 'em some beer and wine with dinner. Teach them that it's a regular thing that regular people consume in moderation. My kids can have a glass of wine or a beer when we have a get together, and they see it as normal. Since pot is illegal, I can't exactly share a joint with them like I shared a few beers with my dad when I was a teenager. I suspect that the effects of THC on brain development are more related to habitual, heavy users(We all knew that pothead that was too stoned to remember what day it was...).

Really, as far as bad habits go, I'm not that concerned about my kids drinking or smoking pot with moderation(I do worry about binge drinking, I saw way too much of it when I was in college). I feel that we, their parents, have done our best to educate them on what the effects are, and what the consequences are and what not to do(For the love of god, call us if you're ever too drunk to drive). What really worries me is that one of them will take up smoking. Their mother and I, as well as their dad, smoked for a long time. We managed to quit a few years ago, and their dad managed to quit this year, but I'm worried that the damage is already done and the behavior is already imprinted. Out of all the dumb things that I did as a kid(And there were plenty!), smoking tobacco was easily the stupidest with the longest term effects.

[PennyQuilts]

NoOkie, I think the problem, is often practical. As you say, it is relatively easy to control the amount of alcohol you provide your child and you can easily couple light drinking with education. You always end up having to hope for the best but it helps that few responsible parents are going to serve your child alcohol without your permission. Culturally, that doesn't happen that much.

Pot smoking, not so much and that isn't going to change for quite some time. That might be because of the stigma of smoking and it might be that might change over time, but we aren't nearly there, yet. For every sensible pot smoking adult who would see the benefit of educating their child about pot smoking - and the wrongness of exposing someone else's child to pot without their express permission - there are 100 more that would just look the other way when junior and his buds lit up. And that leads to really dangerous situations. I DON'T want my stoned fifteen year old daughter making decisions about sex and birth control while over at some pothead's unsupervised house in the afternoon anymore than I would want her to make those sorts of decisions when she is drunk. I just don't see any reason to believe that pot is less dangerous in any tangible way for kids than alcohol - they are both dangerous in different ways - and some in common.