Classen Circle

[SoonerDave]

SoonerDave, maybe it's time to replace your Braum's cheeseburger avatar with something else!

Actually, it isn't a Braum's burger. I got that off a Google image search and found it on a site of all kinds of different food images...not to say Braum's might not coincidentally have used that same image, I suppose, but it wasn't intentionally Braums.....

[soonerguru]

Actually, it isn't a Braum's burger. I got that off a Google image search and found it on a site of all kinds of different food images...not to say Braum's might not coincidentally have used that same image, I suppose, but it wasn't intentionally Braums.....

LOL I've always thought that looked like the idealized representation of a Braum's burger. ON EDIT: I'm slightly fascinated you went Googlin' for an avatar and settled on an anonymous cheeseburger.

[Teo9969]

I agree with the concerns that trying to attack this by denying a rezoning to the end of saving the buildings is a very bad idea, because it could really do some damage to the momentum of urbanism in the core.

What I would say, is that there should be some momentum toward requiring that any zoning on this property include a residential component which would instantly eliminate Braum's as a suitor for the spot. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Braum's as a company wanting to expand their business, and based on the cleanliness of their restaurant, I certainly don't expect them to take a nuanced perspective in placemaking.

So I guess the question for me is, does OKC have a zoning code that *demands* mixed-use? Because when writing this letter, that would definitely be something that I would like to include: What could we do in terms of zoning that would eliminate not the possibility of demolishing these buildings, but that would eliminate the possibility of building only a single drive through Braum's.

And hey, if Braum's wanted to drop $10M into this property to have their Fresh Market + residential on top and maybe another mixed-use element, plus a site plan that did not put parking at the most visible section of this very strategic area, then I'd be happy to invite Braum's to the neighborhood.

[OkieDave]

I agree with the concerns that trying to attack this by denying a rezoning to the end of saving the buildings is a very bad idea, because it could really do some damage to the momentum of urbanism in the core.

What I would say, is that there should be some momentum toward requiring that any zoning on this property include a residential component which would instantly eliminate Braum's as a suitor for the spot. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Braum's as a company wanting to expand their business, and based on the cleanliness of their restaurant, I certainly don't expect them to take a nuanced perspective in placemaking.

So I guess the question for me is, does OKC have a zoning code that *demands* mixed-use? Because when writing this letter, that would definitely be something that I would like to include: What could we do in terms of zoning that would eliminate not the possibility of demolishing these buildings, but that would eliminate the possibility of building only a single drive through Braum's.

And hey, if Braum's wanted to drop $10M into this property to have their Fresh Market + residential on top and maybe another mixed-use element, plus a site plan that did not put parking at the most visible section of this very strategic area, then I'd be happy to invite Braum's to the neighborhood.

The reason to deny the rezoning is about more than just saving the buildings. Corporations are now in the habit of purchasing R-1 residential lots next to their proposed development up and down the Western Ave district, tearing down the homes and then applying to upzone the R-1 zoning to commercial zoning because there is an empty lot there (which is empty because they made it empty). This occurred with Chesapeake Energy a block away at their 50th/Western development which is now going to be a Hideaway Pizza in which a R-1 lot is going to be converted to a surface parking lot. Across the street there is a dry cleaner who purchased R-1 lots, tore down a house and converted another one into his office and then filed for a PUD to convert the R-1 lot into surface parking lot. Westminster school is buying R-1 lots around the surface parking lot to tear down the houses and expand their surface parking lot. The owner of the Drum Room further down on Western Ave is trying to buy the house behind the restaurant from an 82 year old woman so he can tear it down and expand his surface parking lot etc.. The classen circle was zoned as mixed use development with apartments on the second floor and businesses on the first floor. It would be an ideal location for mixed-use development rather than the Braums in which the drive through restaurant has a relatively small portion of the footprint with the supermajority of the land going to a large surface parking lot. The only land included in Braum's PUD application are 3 R-1 residential lots; and they need to stay R-1.

[Uptowner]

2 of the R-1 lots are vacant from the flop/crack/squat I mentioned in an earlier post and were demo'd in 2013-ish. The other is a duplex that's about 800sf per side and is in a state of extreme disrepair. All the lots are owned by the red oak folks of course but the houses did not stand up to the neglect that the donnay building has endured.

Obviously zoning has to be taken on a case by case basis and we can't simply blanket areas, otherwise there would still be residential only bungalows all along 23rd st. Where places like shepherds mall and various grocers and retailers serve a huge section of semi-urban housing.

So on a case by case basis are you saying that the empty lots and the duplex should never be rezoned to commercercial therefor pretty much killing the likelihood of redevelopment of the Classen circle at any stage? Or just for braums? Because I don't foresee anyone wanting to building sparkling new homes on a freeway on ramp like that.

Again I'm not advocating the braums deal I'm just playing Devils advocate from a position of a person who lived 1 block away for several years.

[traxx]

This just seems like an odd location for a Braums. Off all the locations to choose from in OKC, many of which are empty lots, they choose to tear this down. Maybe they could bookend this location and tear down the milk bottle building at 23rd and Classen and put a Braums there too. Makes as much sense.

I just don't see a lot of people pulling off there and going to Braums. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

[zefferoni]

I just don't see a lot of people pulling off there and going to Braums. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

I agree with that. If I'm going to that area, I generally avoid the Classen approach and come through from Western on 50th. Seems like an awful place to put a drive-through.

[jerrywall]

I just don't see a lot of people pulling off there and going to Braums. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

I had the same thought. Especially pass through travelers. I mean, exit 63rd, navigate through a neighborhood to get to the mess that is classen circle, and then figure your way back onto I-44? I don't see how visibility from the highway helps them at all.

[Pete]

I've been trying to verify but I've heard a member of the Braum's family may have a personal connection with the current owner.

In other words, they may have not been out scouting for a new location in this area, but rather this may have been presented to them and now they are trying to make it work.

[SoonerDave]

LOL I've always thought that looked like the idealized representation of a Braum's burger. ON EDIT: I'm slightly fascinated you went Googlin' for an avatar and settled on an anonymous cheeseburger.

Hey I wanted something out of the ordinary. It was either that or some variation of an interlocking "OU," and that wouldn't have been such a fun conversation piece

[Roger S]

This pic the Gazette just posted to their FB page actually made me LOL.

https://www.facebook.com/okgazette/p...type=3&theater

[Pete]

I wonder if Braum's will ever give a public statement on this.

I suppose one strategy is just to roll with the punches and wait for it all to blow over.

[Roger S]

I suppose one strategy is just to roll with the punches and wait for it all to blow over.

I think that will be the course they will take.... As I said up thread.... After all the smoke clears people will forget why they were mad at Braum's because they'll be mad at something else while they eat their ice cream and Braum's will continue on. The people that will always hate Braum's for tearing this building down are a very, very, very, small percentage of their customer base.... So they may take a short term hit from boycotters but then it will be business as usual.

[Pete]

In the meantime, the lines at the 39th & Penn Braum's continue to be quite long.

[Roger S]

In the meantime, the lines at the 39th & Penn Braum's continue to be quite long.

Yeah... The drive-thrus in Moore are always just as busy as normal.... I'm still continuing my boycott due to them never having butter brickle and I'll be going to Baskin Robbins when the Moore and 23rd Street locations open.

[Pete]

Yeah... The drive-thrus in Moore are always just as busy as normal.... I'm still continuing my boycott due to them never having butter brickle and I'll be going to Baskin Robbins when the Moore and 23rd Street locations open.

Haha... Shows the level of my commitment to a boycott because I got some delicious Butter B just last night!

[Roger S]

Haha... Shows the level of my commitment to a boycott because I got some delicious Butter B just last night!

From the restaurant or did you buy it from the grocery? The ones in Moore haven't had butter brickle in over a year from the restaurant/drive thru..... Well I haven't tried the one on Santa Fe in Moore but my boycott is strong.... I'll wait for BR and their 31 flavors... lol

[OKCretro]

my father is boycotting because they don't have Chocolate toffee all the time.

[Roger S]

my father is boycotting because they don't have Chocolate toffee all the time.

Your dad is a good man!

[Pete]

From the restaurant or did you buy it from the grocery? The ones in Moore haven't had butter brickle in over a year from the restaurant/drive thru..... Well I haven't tried the one on Santa Fe in Moore but my boycott is strong.... I'll wait for BR and their 31 flavors... lol

From the grocery.

[Roger S]

From the grocery.

That goes against my quantity control protocol!

Drive thru I will get a scoop.... Grocery I will get a quart and eat the quart! lol

[Pete]

That goes against my quantity control protocol!

Drive thru I will get a scoop.... Grocery I will get a quart and eat the quart! lol

Gallon!

But at least that provides 2 or 3 servings.

[Roger S]

Gallon!

But at least that provides 2 or 3 servings.

And now I know why there is a freaking Braum's butter brickle shortage in OKC!

[Pete]

Braum's has continued their application to the Planning Commission until at least September so a community meeting can be held.

Time/date/place to be determined.

[jccouger]

That's about as good of news as you could expect at this point in time.