Something big coming?

[PhiAlpha]

on ztue other hand, winters can be harsh and the same dryness causes substantial sinus problems in a cold dry climate.

Just depends on what you like.


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[Rover]

Just depends on what you like.


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Exactly

[CuatrodeMayo]

Can't argue with that one, though

It's going to be in the upper 80's here in SEA for a few days and everybody is going on and on about the "heat wave", lol.

To be fair though, 95% of homes here (including mine) don't have AC.

[josh]

I've thought about what -- if anything -- is unique about Oklahoma City.

At the same time, I've long worried that the answer to that question is "nothing". That we are merely trying to do the same things other cities have already done (streetcar, urban districts, etc.) and generally done way better.

But I had a bit of an epiphany about a year ago and I have continued to analyze it, wanting to make sure that I was being at least somewhat objective. And I'm pleased to say the revelation has held up to scrutiny.


I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

And I would add the City is unique in that it's infrastructure is very well positioned for explosive expansion.


Both these things are far more unusual than you may think. There are some in central Oklahoma who are worry about increased traffic and the like, but far less than in other cities I've visited.

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


These things are OKC's greatest assets, hands down. I'd say about 95% of the people that live there are incredibly excited and proud of what has happened thus far and at the same time very hungry for far bigger and better things.

You could actually describe a few cities like that. But that wouldn't be the most unique thing about them though.

[bchris02]

You could actually describe a few cities like that. But that wouldn't be the most unique thing about them though.

San Antonio is definitely a unique city because of its history, the Riverwalk, etc. It has a unique vibe that you only find there.

Oklahoma City is a young city and lacks the historical legacy most of its peers have. It also lacks any kind of geographical, climate, or natural advantage. There is one thing OKC has that IS unique, and that's the Native American heritage. Unfortunately, the derplahomans in the state government refuse to capitalize on that and finish the Native American Museum and Cultural Center. That would be an attraction that is truly unique and would draw people from places like Dallas and Kansas City because nowhere else has anything like it. Shame on the state legislature!

[hfry]

Back to what Steve could possibly be hinting at. For those that follow his chats he has helped rule out big areas like the Chevy events center parking lot if my memory is correct. Figuring out the location is the first step, for me, in figuring out what this could possibly be that could make other cities jealous. My guess is the parking lot on the southwest side of reno and Oklahoma avenue. It's big, it's an important area with the new boulevard touch its farthest south point. I'm not sure who owns it but I know it's important parking for a lot of the lower bricktown area so regardless if this lot is steve's something big I think this lot has lots of potential and it will happen sooner rather than later.

[SOONER8693]

Whatever happened to the big entertainment venue planned by the folk that own the Wormy Dog? Is that project still alive, on life support, dead? Anyone.

[bchris02]

Whatever happened to the big entertainment venue planned by the folk that own the Wormy Dog? Is that project still alive, on life support, dead? Anyone.

I remember Steve saying in one of his chats a few months back that its dead. I just did a search to see if I could find it but I couldn't, so don't take my word for it.

I think if it makes Kansas City and Dallas jealous, it has to be something bigger than a music venue. That's not to say the announcement of a venue wouldn't be awesome. OKC definitely needs something that can compete with the Brady theater and Cain's Ballroom in Tulsa.

[hoya]

There's no "like" button, but I had to say how much I liked this from hoyasooner. Very well said and I feel so much the same way. Thanks hoya!

Hey, thank you.

I've thought about what -- if anything -- is unique about Oklahoma City.

At the same time, I've long worried that the answer to that question is "nothing". That we are merely trying to do the same things other cities have already done (streetcar, urban districts, etc.) and generally done way better.

But I had a bit of an epiphany about a year ago and I have continued to analyze it, wanting to make sure that I was being at least somewhat objective. And I'm pleased to say the revelation has held up to scrutiny.


I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

And I would add the City is unique in that it's infrastructure is very well positioned for explosive expansion.


Both these things are far more unusual than you may think. There are some in central Oklahoma who are worry about increased traffic and the like, but far less than in other cities I've visited.

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


These things are OKC's greatest assets, hands down. I'd say about 95% of the people that live there are incredibly excited and proud of what has happened thus far and at the same time very hungry for far bigger and better things.

I don't think it matters if we are just mimicking things that other places have done better. San Antonio has a river walk that is a lot better than our Bricktown canal. I'm sure Portland's streetcar system is bigger than ours will be. We're never going to have the kind of streetwall that Chicago has, and I'll bet the urban neighborhoods in Seattle or San Francisco leave ours in the dust. Denver has better mass transit, I bet. We don't have the cool festivals and the hip reputation of Austin, or the thriving gay leather bar scene that dominates the Charlotte nightlife. We try to copy bigger better cities and we end up with a poor man's version of them.

But you can't compare OKC only to these cities, you have to compare OKC today to OKC 20 years ago. And when you make that comparison, the differences are staggering. OKC is still struggling to find that unique character that will set it apart from everywhere else. What we are doing is copying everything we can from a dozen different cities. We will end up with a fusion of all these projects that will be different from any other city. We are trying everything and we will see what works. We aren't going to know what the final picture looks like until the last piece is in place.

[bchris02]

I don't think it matters if we are just mimicking things that other places have done better. San Antonio has a river walk that is a lot better than our Bricktown canal. I'm sure Portland's streetcar system is bigger than ours will be. We're never going to have the kind of streetwall that Chicago has, and I'll bet the urban neighborhoods in Seattle or San Francisco leave ours in the dust. Denver has better mass transit, I bet. We don't have the cool festivals and the hip reputation of Austin, or the thriving gay leather bar scene that dominates the Charlotte nightlife. We try to copy bigger better cities and we end up with a poor man's version of them.

You are right on here. I do find it hilarious though that you say Charlotte's nightlife is dominated by the gay leather bar scene. Of course I am not gay so I am not an expert on the scene, but I had some close friends in Charlotte who were and I even went to a few gay clubs, but had never heard of a leather bar. Charlotte's nightlife is widely dominated by bars in which the best OKC comparison is O Bar in the Ambassador Hotel and clubs like Club One15.

But you can't compare OKC only to these cities, you have to compare OKC today to OKC 20 years ago. And when you make that comparison, the differences are staggering. OKC is still struggling to find that unique character that will set it apart from everywhere else. What we are doing is copying everything we can from a dozen different cities. We will end up with a fusion of all these projects that will be different from any other city. We are trying everything and we will see what works. We aren't going to know what the final picture looks like until the last piece is in place.

I agree that the difference in this city today and the way it was in the 1990s is staggering. It's important though for several reason that OKC compares well to its peer cities and not just to itself pre-MAPS. OKC is competing with these other cities for jobs, corporate relocations, and educated talent. Things are probably over one hundredfold better than they were 20 years ago, but OKC is still getting passed up more than it probably should, especially given the boom that is currently happening in Texas.

[Just the facts]

Jacksonville is quite often criticized for many of the same things OKC is criticized for. The two cities are pretty similar in population and both considered behind others in their tier. It surprises me they would be that far ahead of OKC. What are some neighborhoods that you would say fall into that category so I can look them up on Streetview?

Avondale
Corner of St Johns Ave and Ingelside Ave.

Riverside
Kings Ave from Herschel St to College St.

5 Points
A large area with multiple midrise condos and apartments located around the intersection of Park St, Margaret St, and Lomax St.

Brooklyn
New neighborhood along Riverside Drive between I-95 and downtown. Check out 220 Riverside on multiple web sites.

Southbank
Corner of Riverplace Blvd and Gulf Life Dr.

Downtown Jax - do a streetview of Laura St starting at Duval St and working your way to Jax Landing (which is about to be torn down and replaced with a much larger mixed-use project)

San Marco
Just find Balis Park

San Marco North
San Marco Blvd from Nira St to Riviera St.

San Marco East
Hendricks Ave from the railroad tracks to Atlantic Blvd.

Jacksonville Beach
1st St from Beach Blvd to 6th Ave. Streetview doesn't do it justice becasue all those surface parking lots have been developed into housing, retail, hotels, bars, and restaurants.

Atlantic Beach
Atlantic Ave from 3rd St to the Ocean.

And finally, Betts would be mad if I didn't throw in Springfield. It is one of her haunts when she is in town.
Main St from 8th St to 6th St.

I drive Uber in all these places and they are packed with thousands of people. On Friday and Saturday nights don't even try to find a parking place (which is why I do Uber there). The problem with Jax is that these places are filling up quickly and there is no momentum to build new places, whereas OKCs historic districts are just now catching on and there is ample urban vacant land to build new walkable neighborhoods from scratch (the airpark for example).

[josh]

San Antonio is definitely a unique city because of its history, the Riverwalk, etc. It has a unique vibe that you only find there.

Oklahoma City is a young city and lacks the historical legacy most of its peers have. It also lacks any kind of geographical, climate, or natural advantage. There is one thing OKC has that IS unique, and that's the Native American heritage. Unfortunately, the derplahomans in the state government refuse to capitalize on that and finish the Native American Museum and Cultural Center. That would be an attraction that is truly unique and would draw people from places like Dallas and Kansas City because nowhere else has anything like it. Shame on the state legislature!

I really wasn't including san antonio in those cities (I had other cities in mind) but you could definitely make that argument we love growth and our freeway system is very comprehensive and there is tons of room to grow on the outskirts. However, as for the things you said, aside from the historical aspect, there is also the riverwalk as well as the hill country and the Hispanic and German heritage of the region that make San Antonio very unique.

But the native American history should be embraced.

[Jim Kyle]

Well, I was thinking Penn, Western, Memorial, SW 89th, May, and a few others. Obviously, there are a few portions of those roads that have areas where they should remain 4 lanes so to not discourage walkability, but the traffic is getting horrid on them and they are horrible roads in general. They have resurfaced a couple of them, but they're bland, boring, and ugly. I think just removing the utility lines would do wonders.

May Ave. by NW Expressway is such an awesome area of OKC. I love that area!

You might take a look at what Warr Acres has done with MacArthur, between NW 63 and NW 50, for an example of what needs doing elsewhere in the metro area. I had occasion to drive that stretch Saturday evening and note the great improvements in the 63rd/Mac area plus the generous 4-lane SMOOTH paving. Compared to what this stretch was just 5 or 6 years ago, it's amazing. For that matter, compared to OKC's portion of MacArthur from NW Hiway up to Memorial Road, it's like night and day...

[zookeeper]

You might take a look at what Warr Acres has done with MacArthur, between NW 63 and NW 50, for an example of what needs doing elsewhere in the metro area. I had occasion to drive that stretch Saturday evening and note the great improvements in the 63rd/Mac area plus the generous 4-lane SMOOTH paving. Compared to what this stretch was just 5 or 6 years ago, it's amazing. For that matter, compared to OKC's portion of MacArthur from NW Hiway up to Memorial Road, it's like night and day...

Hi Jim, Haven't seen you around as much lately. Just wanted to say I've missed your presence - it's glaring when certain people are gone for any time at all. Good point about MacArthur, btw.

[bchris02]

Why is it that roads in OKC proper seem to be in much worse shape than roads in suburban municipalities? Is it simply because the city's resources are stretched too thin?

[Plutonic Panda]

You might take a look at what Warr Acres has done with MacArthur, between NW 63 and NW 50, for an example of what needs doing elsewhere in the metro area. I had occasion to drive that stretch Saturday evening and note the great improvements in the 63rd/Mac area plus the generous 4-lane SMOOTH paving. Compared to what this stretch was just 5 or 6 years ago, it's amazing. For that matter, compared to OKC's portion of MacArthur from NW Hiway up to Memorial Road, it's like night and day...

I honestly haven't seen it
I'll drive out there when I get chance. Good to hear Warr Acres is revitalizing their city.

[Plutonic Panda]

Why is it that roads in OKC proper seem to be in much worse shape than roads in suburban municipalities? Is it simply because the city's resources are stretched too thin?

OKC is huge city and spread out. There are a ton of roads to maintain. It can get too much for city to keep on top of it especially with the low density and low tax revenue. OKC needs to fix its existing roads before it expands any further. The suburban sprawl coupled with the neglect it experienced would be my guess.

[Just the facts]

Just look how much P180 cost and how little area it covered. There isn't enough possible tax revenue to do anything close to that City wide.

[boitoirich]

Alright here's my stab in the dark: we're building amazing facilities for cycle track racers (velodrome, performance center, housing for athletes) and Oklahoma City becomes an official Olympic training venue for track racing.

Can't think of too many things that might make Dallas and KC jealous. They've got great residential options, so I don't think it's a high rise of any kind. I would love for it to be a transit project, but nothing we could do would top DART. If it is an entertainment development, I would think it would have something to do with bringing in an amenity that does not exist in those places and to a game-changing level as the Boathouse District development has been. That's how I arrived at track racing.

[Plutonic Panda]

Just look how much P180 cost and how little area it covered. There isn't enough possible tax revenue to do anything close to that City wide.

just curious... If. You had a billion to spend on roads.... Which areas would you do?

[soonerguru]

Why is it that roads in OKC proper seem to be in much worse shape than roads in suburban municipalities? Is it simply because the city's resources are stretched too thin?

I dunno man, but have you driven on some of the suburban roads? Edmond's are horrible. Honestly, the state of OKC roads and highways is about the best I remember ever.

[bchris02]

I dunno man, but have you driven on some of the suburban roads? Edmond's are horrible. Honestly, the state of OKC roads and highways is about the best I remember ever.

Edmond's roads have their pros and cons. On the upside, there are quite a few roads that are cement (most in OKC are asphalt) and they are landscaped well with medians, double turn lanes, and street lights. The bad part about them is stop light placement is just awful.

[Jim Kyle]

Hi Jim, Haven't seen you around as much lately. Just wanted to say I've missed your presence - it's glaring when certain people are gone for any time at all. Good point about MacArthur, btw.

I've been going round and round with cataract surgery since late March; postponed twice at the last minute, for a month each time, and finally completed last Thursday with great results. I've been reading the forums several times a day, but not spouting off as much as usual. When I don't have much to say, I don't say it...

[okclee]

This something BIG is coming, could it be so that we all just keep following along with the journalists at NewsOkay .com?

[OkieNate]

San Antonio is definitely a unique city because of its history, the Riverwalk, etc. It has a unique vibe that you only find there.

Oklahoma City is a young city and lacks the historical legacy most of its peers have. It also lacks any kind of geographical, climate, or natural advantage. There is one thing OKC has that IS unique, and that's the Native American heritage. Unfortunately, the derplahomans in the state government refuse to capitalize on that and finish the Native American Museum and Cultural Center. That would be an attraction that is truly unique and would draw people from places like Dallas and Kansas City because nowhere else has anything like it. Shame on the state legislature!

I guess you've never heard of New Mexico.... If OKC has one thing that is truly UNIQUE, it's the land run.