Boeing

[Kerry]

It has nothing to do with direct airfield access. It has to do with being close to the customer, and being close to your contractors and subcontractors.

Then this brings me back to my orginal comment - they were doing this work in Long Beach, California. That is 1,348 miles from their customer. Why could they do this job 1,300 miles away for the last (how many years) but they can't do it 8 miles away. What is magical about that last 8 miles?

[Kerry]

How is that set up working for Long Beach?

Have you seen the size of the Boeing Long Beach/Huntington Beach operations? I would say it has worked out well for them. Of course, California is taxing a lot of companies out of the state.

[SkyWestOKC]

Then this brings me back to my orginal comment - they were doing this work in Long Beach, California. That is 1,348 miles from their customer. Why could they do this job 1,300 miles away for the last (how many years) but they can't do it 8 miles away. What is magical about that last 8 miles?

Because the program they are moving is not all Boeing does. Boeing currently does have offices near Tinker that are near their suppliers, contractors, subcontractors, and the customer. Moving this to downtown away from the current Boeing facility, again - stupidity. Also, they [Boeing] will most likely attract their suppliers for this specific project from Long Beach to open, or expand current offices in OKC -- which happens to also be near the customer, Tinker AFB and indirectly Boeing.

So, you have a ton of relevant companies and suppliers you use in a cluster, including your own current offices. But, let's move this one operation downtown for the heck of it. Yes that makes perfect sense Kerry.

[Kerry]

Just to calirrify - I am not saying they should move downtown. All I am saying is that downtown OKC is closer to the customer than Long Beach is. In Huntington Beach, Boeing is in several high-rise towers that are nowhere near their 'customers'. If being close to the customer is a new 'trend' with Boeing then so be it - but that hasn't always been the case. Maybe the model changed when Boeing moved from Seattle to Chicago to be closer to their primary customers.

[HOT ROD]

I also want to be clear, since some people ran away with what I had said.

1) I NEVER said Boeing should build a tower downtown. I said, they could have built a small tower to start a new CBD for Midwest City.

2) I NEVER said MWC has a downtown, I said, Boeing could have built a small tower (with 320 sq feet) that if planned right - could have started a CBD for Midwest City

3) I NEVER said I wasn't happy for OKC that Boeing is locating those jobs. I said, a building that is 320,000 sq feet (think Mid-America/Devon current tower) Boeing could have built a nice mid-rise tower that if planned right could have started a new CBD for Midwest City.

One final time; since Boeing needs a 320,000 sq ft building and wants to be close to its customer(s) at Tinker, then with a little bit of planning foresight - MWC could have got them to build a small tower that could have started a new CBD for Midwest City. ...

I also said that suburbs in OKC should start to build in their CBDs to create synergy (for a host of things 'metropolitan') instead of building suburban campus style office parks. This Boeing relocation would have been the perfect opportunity for Midwest City.

Just so we're clear. .....

[Kerry]

Thanks HotRod. Yes it does appear MWC missed an opportunity here, not just with this new building but the original Boeing buiding as well (plus some of the other office buildings near Tinker). Where would this 'downtown' have been built?

[bombermwc]

MWC didn't "miss an opporunity" at all folks. It was never theirs to have. Boeing was in MWC for decades in the Tinker Business Park on 29th and Sooner....much like so many of the other contract companies. It's single story boring plain office space in multiple buildings (and infact the masterplan still isn't complete because the last building has yet to be built...and probably never will). The damned flight line arguement was such a pain for years in getting anything happening there, and on the Del City side of Sooner.

Boeing consolidated offices into their current building....and there wasn't anywhere in MWC with that proximity to the base, that had land to build. Go check out a google map and look at MWC from 29th to 15....100% full until you get out east of Douglas. Right now Boeing is across the street from Tinker, in an area that has a TON of room to grow. That's also 2 miles south of MWC. So like I said, it was never MWC's in the first place. There simply isn't room (in a non-flight-line) area in MWC for something like these projects to go. They had to go to OKC for that. There's no point in building ON Douglas anyway since Tinker has always had it's eye on taking that over and closing access between 240 and 40. So why block yourself in for 20 years from now? They can build where they are now and as the area attracts other businesses like Boeing, Tinker will have a more "secure" back door as well.

[Kerry]

I think the point HotRod was trying to make is this: Boeing has built (or will soon have) over 500,000 sq feet of office space. Plus there is other office space taken up by contractors, sub-contractors, as well as other defense companies. Instead of spreading all of this office space over 3 or 4 square miles around Tinker, they could have created a new suburban business district with mid rise buildings that also included housing and entertainment options. It could have been an aviation dominated business district which could then have attracted other non-defense aviation companies to the state. Where it was built is irrelevant to the discussion.

[HOT ROD]

thanks Kerry, as usual - you get it.

[Spartan]

This is the problem: You're suggesting we have foresight and lasting value with our development. Egads!

[Kerry]

thanks Kerry, as usual - you get it.

Well, it took me a while but once I understood what you were saying I was on-board.

[bombermwc]

But that assumption presupposes that MWC did (or didn't) something that caused Boeing to not look in MWC. I would argue that they couldn't have done anything to keep Boeing in the city limits of MWC. Unless Boeing was willing to pay out their rear to tear out a bunch of land and businesses somewhere on 29th (say west of Sam's). What I mean there, is that to build a building like that in MWC at the same proximity would have cost Boeing at least double what it did cost. They wouldn't have been able to build that building near the old offices because of the flight line....restictions at Sooner for density and height (don't ask me why the on-base structures don't have to follow those rules). The further away from Tinker you go in MWC, the cheaper the land....but then you're further away from Tinker. The spot they chose really was the best place for Boeing...proximity being across the street, cheaper land, room to grow, access to a highway, etc.

So while I understand what you are saying, I don't agree. I would argue that MWC was out of the equation for many many reasons.

[Kerry]

Then take MWC out of the equation. They (OKC, Gardner-Tanenbaum and Boeing) could have built an aviation based town center on the same site they are building on right now. Most town center developers would beg to have someone wanting to lease 500,000 sq feet of office space and Tanenbaum has that dumped into his lap and does nothing with it other than building a 6 story building surrounded by acres of surface parking. A huge opportunity was missed by a lot of people.

[dismayed]

I don't know, I think the answer is pretty obvious. Have you seen that shiny gray, black, and blue building... off by itself, surrounded by parking lot, and then fencing, and then nothing... the message it sends is quite clear... keep out. They aren't some company that makes toaster ovens, they are a defense contractor. They don't want you or some commercial town center anywhere near them.

[Kerry]

I don't know, I think the answer is pretty obvious. Have you seen that shiny gray, black, and blue building... off by itself, surrounded by parking lot, and then fencing, and then nothing... the message it sends is quite clear... keep out. They aren't some company that makes toaster ovens, they are a defense contractor. They don't want you or some commercial town center anywhere near them.

They just moved out of a mid-rise district in Long Beach.

[bombermwc]

Kerry - don't confuse where the long beach office was with what their presense here in OKC has always been. The old offices on 29th and sooner were gated off as well. Most suites don't have signs on them to tell you who is there. It's not an "inviting" place. It's more of a "if you don't belong here, then go away". If I remember right, you don't live in OKC though. So if you haven't been here, I can see how it isn't clear. They are operating locally just as all of the contract companies have. Heck, Chromalloy is another local contractor in MWC acorss from Century (the largest martial arts supplier in the U.S.). That's about the extent of an "industrial" area in MWC and that's next to a soccer complex and the largest park in MWC. Been that way for 40 years. My point is, local folks are indifferent on this because it's exactlly what made sense to us.

[Kerry]

I give up then - since it has always been done that way then I guess there is no use trying something different.

[WilliamTell]

Lock this darn thread. Boeing is moving jobs here, they have a brand new building constructed during the last few years, they obviously built alot a extra space into it to accommodate growth.

LET IT GO, IF THEY WANTED TO MOVE DOWNTOWN THEY WOULD HAVE.

[soonerguru]

Lock this darn thread. Boeing is moving jobs here, they have a brand new building constructed during the last few years, they obviously built alot a extra space into it to accommodate growth.

LET IT GO, IF THEY WANTED TO MOVE DOWNTOWN THEY WOULD HAVE.

Feeling cranky?

[WilliamTell]

Feeling cranky?

No, the pertinent points were already made in this thread a long time ago and you guys have been beating a dead horse for pages now. Let it go and find a better hobby.

[rcjunkie]

No, the pertinent points were already made in this thread a long time ago and you guys have been beating a dead horse for pages now. Let it go and find a better hobby.

Apparently your still interested in what's being said or you wouldn't continue to look at/read the postings on this thread.

[earlywinegareth]

Cheap, available land + quick, easy access to your customer = no brainer

[bombermwc]

And that's my point why they built where they did....

[mcca7596]

http://newsok.com/boeing-to-move-eng...rticle/3637499

[Bellaboo]

High paying engineering jobs moving to OKC - reckon some more of that incentive fund was tapped ?