I-235 / I-44 Interchange

[HangryHippo]

DC - OKC’s issues are the interchanges. Lane capacity, minus a few notable exceptions, isn’t the problem. It’s the asinine interchanges.

[Charlie]

Yea I moved back to OKC from the DMV Area about 2 years ago and you would be surprised at how fast the city is growing. It really shows with the 5 o'clock traffic.

This is much needed, and I cannot wait until they get started with I-240/I-35 and I-40/I-44

[Pete]

This intersection was not only a bottleneck but *very* dangerous.

It still is during construction but will be a million times better when complete.


So many of OKC's freeway intersections were not built to interstate standards for some reason. I-240 & I-35 is just as bad.

[Plutonic Panda]

Plu, you could be right, but could you explain why you believe that to be the case based on traffic patterns? I could be outdated due to my not living in the city

Even with lower traffic counts, fly overs can still be justified by allowing for a more efficient movement than a cloverleaf.

[Plutonic Panda]

DC - OKC’s issues are the interchanges. Lane capacity, minus a few notable exceptions, isn’t the problem. It’s the asinine interchanges.

You’re not entirely wrong but this statement is starting to show age. Minus the opinions from those who believe adding lanes results in cars magically appearing so their drivers can sit in standstill traffic, there are multiple segments that need to be widened right now and many that will need to be widened in the near future. In a perfect world we’d do it all now but reality prevails.

I would agree OKDOT should focus on interchanges. But the state needs to get its ass in gear and give OKDOT more funding. I am extremely shocked at how much worse traffic has gotten in OKC since I left in 2015. OKC’s days of having decent traffic at rush hour are numbered.

[dcsooner]

DC - OKC’s issues are the interchanges. Lane capacity, minus a few notable exceptions, isn’t the problem. It’s the asinine interchanges.

Thanks for clarifying, much appreciated

[HangryHippo]

You’re not entirely wrong but this statement is starting to show age. Minus the opinions from those who believe adding lanes results in cars magically appearing so their drivers can sit in standstill traffic, there are multiple segments that need to be widened right now and many that will need to be widened in the near future. In a perfect world we’d do it all now but reality prevails.

I would agree OKDOT should focus on interchanges. But the state needs to get its ass in gear and give OKDOT more funding. I am extremely shocked at how much worse traffic has gotten in OKC since I left in 2015. OKC’s days of having decent traffic at rush hour are numbered.

I said minus a few notable exceptions - there are definitely areas that need to be widened. But the biggest problem, IMO, is the interchanges and the on and off ramps that help turn the already-poor interchanges into absolute clustersf***s (looking at you Broadway Extension/122nd/Kilpatrick).

[Plutonic Panda]

I said minus a few notable exceptions - there are definitely areas that need to be widened. But the biggest problem, IMO, is the interchanges and the on and off ramps that help turn the already-poor interchanges into absolute clustersf***s (looking at you Broadway Extension/122nd/Kilpatrick).

Pretty much every single freeway to freeway interchange in OKC sucks. Even once completed this interchange will still be half assed but at least it will have C/D lanes for the clover leafs. All the others either are deficient or incomplete.

[jn1780]

We widen the roads first for the "cheap and easy" victories, but this only helps so much until the interchanges are replace.

Judging by the pics, it looks like a shift to some of the new ramps is coming up soon. Also, 63rd offramp is probably close to the planned temporary closure to tie in the new ramps.

[Snowman]

It still seems bizarre how they are prioritizing the on/off ramps at 63rd during construction.

They seamed dead set on keeping the southbound on ramp open even when it was at best near guaranteed to cause backups and at worst seemed a higher risk of accidents, which also likely increased build cost. Now they are still keeping the northbound off ramp open, when closing it a month or two ago looks like it would have speed up this segment's construction, also likely increasing cost. When there is three alternate ramps within a mile, so most people would not even need to drive a half mile out of their way to an alternate.

[Pete]

^

Yes, it concerns me that they seem hell-bent on keeping everything open all the time, often at the expense of a very dangerous situation.

Unless I'm going straight through, I avoid this nightmare as much as possible. I've had two very close calls.

[TheTravellers]

^

Yes, it concerns me that they seem hell-bent on keeping everything open all the time, often at the expense of a very dangerous situation.

Unless I'm going straight through, I avoid this nightmare as much as possible. I've had two very close calls.

Haven't driven through there in years, won't until it's completely done.

[jccouger]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment or maybe a thrill seeker but I love driving through this interchange at the moment lol

Love seeing the progress first hand, and driving under those new flyovers is impressive.

[soonermike81]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment or maybe a thrill seeker but I love driving through this interchange at the moment lol

Love seeing the progress first hand, and driving under those new flyovers is impressive.

Lol, I’m the same way!

[David]

Haha, same here as well. I even started using NB 235 to WB 44 just to use the completed flyover on trips where I otherwise would have gone up Classen or some similar route.

[HangryHippo]

Haha, same here as well. I even started using NB 235 to WB 44 just to use the completed flyover on trips where I otherwise would have gone up Classen or some similar route.

Same here, ha.

[catch22]

Induced demand!!!

[David]

Nobody tell Panda!

[Of Sound Mind]

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment or maybe a thrill seeker but I love driving through this interchange at the moment lol

Love seeing the progress first hand, and driving under those new flyovers is impressive.

Ditto. But I also mitigate the pain by commuting to work VERY early and then keeping my evening commute either before 4pm or after 6pm.

I'm actually very impressed with how they have adeptly managed this herculean project... like trying to rebuild a ship while the ship is still sailing. It's not perfect, but it's been impressive.

[Plutonic Panda]

Induced demand!!!

Nobody tell Panda!

I’m sitting biting my tongue mumbling to myself about it

[Scott5114]

So many of OKC's freeway intersections were not built to interstate standards for some reason. I-240 & I-35 is just as bad.

I-35/I-240 and I-44/I-235 were both cloverleaf interchanges. They were state of the art when they were built... in the mid-1960s. Interstate standards were a lot looser then. If they applied at all. I-44/I-235 may have been originally built as a US-66/US-77 interchange.

We have learned a lot about freeway design in the last 50 years. Also, cars have gotten a lot better. I have a driving book from 1968 that casually mentions that some cars may not be able to handle Interstates, and that you may consider switching cars before using a freeway. A design that worked when nobody expected a car to reach 70 mph doesn't work now. Driver expectations for freeway and vehicle engineering are a lot higher than they used to be. The cloverleaf used to be considered a good, solid design. Only later, with increasing traffic levels, were its flaws discovered and considered so bad to begin retiring the design.

Other states invested in their infrastructure and upgraded the worst interchanges long ago, or have been actively working on doing so as much as they can. Oklahoma has only started getting around to doing this in the last decade or so. Texas used to have far more squirrelly interchanges than Oklahoma did, but they have been able to rebuild many of them.

If you ever get the chance, it's interesting driving a real vintage freeway that hasn't been upgraded, like the Pasadena Freeway (110) in California or the Pennsylvania Turnpike. These were some of the first freeways in the US and it really shows. There were a lot of odd ideas at the time, like on-ramps so short you had a stop sign at the end of them, exit ramps at near-right angles to the mainline. Nobody had ever built a freeway before, so they were just kind of winging it. Now we know what works and what doesn't.

[Scott5114]

Haha, same here as well. I even started using NB 235 to WB 44 just to use the completed flyover on trips where I otherwise would have gone up Classen or some similar route.

Induced demand!!!

This actually perfectly illustrates the problem with "induced demand" as a concept—some people would absolutely use an increase in traffic correlated to the flyover opening as an example of "induced demand". Except, here, the demand is exactly the same (David would presumably still make the trip by car either way), the traffic pattern is just shifting. Increased traffic at I-44/I-235 is taking traffic off of Classen, in this case. I would think most people would rather have the traffic on the Interstate System than on city streets.

[BoulderSooner]

This actually perfectly illustrates the problem with "induced demand" as a concept—some people would absolutely use an increase in traffic correlated to the flyover opening as an example of "induced demand". Except, here, the demand is exactly the same (David would presumably still make the trip by car either way), the traffic pattern is just shifting. Increased traffic at I-44/I-235 is taking traffic off of Classen, in this case. I would think most people would rather have the traffic on the Interstate System than on city streets.

thank you for putting this in a much better way then i ever could. Induced Demand for sure is a thing and can happen in major metro areas .. (ie if you build more roads into NYC more people will decide to drive) but it is not really a thing in a city that already has close to Max driving and almost no persons that are using public transit by choice ..

[catch22]

I was being tongue-in-cheek. Largely agree with the above.

[AnguisHerba]

...exit ramps at near-right angles to the mainline.

I-40 Eastbound exit at Sunnylane Rd. Exiting there is like a driving course where you have to dodge left/right around a cone.