Chesapeake empire marches on

[HOT ROD]

Seems like a good fit for OSU-OKC since it would tie into the architecture of the Stillwater campus.

THAT is what I was thinking. Why not convert all of the brick to become a new University campus. Think about it if an Oil/Energy related new university OR an existing university relocated. Interesting to think about.

[jn1780]

Any university out there that would be interested in doing this?

[ShadowStrings]

Is there a reason why people don't want to use this campus for a corporate HQ? Seems like conversion to housing is all people are discussing.

[Rover]

Any university out there that would be interested in doing this?

No, because of the cost. Changing uses from the office designs isn't cheap or easy. A 10x12 office isn't suitable for a classroom or a dorm. People must think you just wave a wand. It isn't what the outside looks like, it's the whole building. People drive by and see the type of architecture and all they see is that it might be cool as apartments based on what the style of architecture and the color of the bricks are, or they notice it looks a little like OSU in Stillwater so assume it can be a university.

In retrofit it is usually easier going from big rooms to smaller rooms than the other way around.

[jn1780]

No, because of the cost. Changing uses from the office designs isn't cheap or easy. A 10x12 office isn't suitable for a classroom or a dorm. People must think you just wave a wand. It isn't what the outside looks like, it's the whole building. People drive by and see the type of architecture and all they see is that it might be cool as apartments based on what the style of architecture and the color of the bricks are, or they notice it looks a little like OSU in Stillwater so assume it can be a university.

In retrofit it is usually easier going from big rooms to smaller rooms than the other way around.

I mean, that's the reason why old historic buildings are converted. No magic wands involved there. The Chesapeake campus on the other hand probably runs into the problem of not being old or unique enough. Way back when we first started talking about the "Chesapeake Empire" there was talk about how impractical this sprawling campus was. I guess we're seeing that play out now.

[Rover]

I mean, that's the reason why old historic buildings are converted. No magic wands involved there. The Chesapeake campus on the other hand probably runs into the problem of not being old or unique enough. Way back when we first started talking about the "Chesapeake Empire" there was talk about how impractical this sprawling campus was. I guess we're seeing that play out now.

Not many old office building are retrofitted as housing unless they were open plan with few or no internal support walls. The non-load-bearing walls generally would have to be gutted, the entire building rewired and replumbed. New electrical brought to the building, possible upgraded sewer connections. Different HVAC. That's why so many incentives have to be given to do it... historical building credits, etc. I saw a professional report just last week that estimated about 3-5% of existing office buildings are suitable for conversion. The fact that Chesapeake was sprawling has nothing to do with it. They were designed as office buildings, not residential, and they aren't just easily transformable. To even consider it a developer would have to be ultra committed and with deep pockets.

[PhiAlpha]

Not many old office building are retrofitted as housing unless they were open plan with few or no internal support walls. The non-load-bearing walls generally would have to be gutted, the entire building rewired and replumbed. New electrical brought to the building, possible upgraded sewer connections. Different HVAC. That's why so many incentives have to be given to do it... historical building credits, etc. I saw a professional report just last week that estimated about 3-5% of existing office buildings are suitable for conversion. The fact that Chesapeake was sprawling has nothing to do with it. They were designed as office buildings, not residential, and they aren't just easily transformable. To even consider it a developer would have to be ultra committed and with deep pockets.

I had several family members working there early on. They all have said that Aubrey designed them in a way that would allow for a fairly painless (relatively speaking) conversion to residential or other uses. I can't confirm that beyond a doubt but he was pretty forward thinking in many ways and cared a lot about the future of that part of town so it wouldn't surprise me if that level of thought went into it. They are all fairly large buildings so space generally shouldn't be an issue unless, as you suggest, floor plate issues come into play. Hopefully that was actually the case and not just a rumor.

[Bill Robertson]

I had several family members working there early on. They all have said that Aubrey designed them in a way that would allow for a fairly painless (relatively speaking) conversion to residential or other uses. I can't confirm that beyond a doubt but he was pretty forward thinking in many ways and cared a lot about the future of that part of town so it wouldn't surprise me if that level of thought went into it. They are all fairly large buildings so space generally shouldn't be an issue unless, as you suggest, floor plate issues come into play. Hopefully that was actually the case and not just a rumor.

It would be great if that was done. And it's possible that it was designed that way in the initial design.

[bombermwc]

Not many old office building are retrofitted as housing unless they were open plan with few or no internal support walls. The non-load-bearing walls generally would have to be gutted, the entire building rewired and replumbed. New electrical brought to the building, possible upgraded sewer connections. Different HVAC. That's why so many incentives have to be given to do it... historical building credits, etc. I saw a professional report just last week that estimated about 3-5% of existing office buildings are suitable for conversion. The fact that Chesapeake was sprawling has nothing to do with it. They were designed as office buildings, not residential, and they aren't just easily transformable. To even consider it a developer would have to be ultra committed and with deep pockets.

It is not cheap for sure to do all that plumbing especially. That's why I'm suggesting, don't just turn this into a bunch of small apartments. I'm suggesting look at it from the possibility of them being much larger than the average apartment. 2500-3k sq footers. Maybe even multi level. It does reduce the amount of plumbing work and you can get some more bang for you buck there by sharing walls for plumbing needs like bathrooms and laundry/etc.

The size of these floorplates is not just SOOO huge. Maybe make each building its own identity. You could turn one building into full floor lofts. Minimal build-out. One, the customer does the build-out as part of a condo-type ownership. One could be the typical normal apartments. The possibilities are pretty open and endless there in terms of how much you want to put into it and how much space you create for each unit. Hell, you could have one building that's only a couple of HUGE units. There are people out there that would love that. We don't have those anywhere really in town like that, in an area like this. They dont want ANY lawn. They dont want to have to mess with repairs/etc. But they want SIZE.

[Pete]

I had several family members working there early on. They all have said that Aubrey designed them in a way that would allow for a fairly painless (relatively speaking) conversion to residential or other uses. I can't confirm that beyond a doubt but he was pretty forward thinking in many ways and cared a lot about the future of that part of town so it wouldn't surprise me if that level of thought went into it. They are all fairly large buildings so space generally shouldn't be an issue unless, as you suggest, floor plate issues come into play. Hopefully that was actually the case and not just a rumor.

As I've said before, I believe very strongly this is an urban myth.

I've seen the plans for all their buildings and they are all typical office buildings.

[warreng88]

I worked there from 2011-2013 and had several meetings where people could ask questions and he had the plans to build housing on the west side of Grand and where the apartments are/were going up on 63rd and Grand. To the east, it would be office all the way to the train tracks. If I remember correctly, he was wanting to build out the office space to have 10,000 employees.

[Rover]

It is not cheap for sure to do all that plumbing especially. That's why I'm suggesting, don't just turn this into a bunch of small apartments. I'm suggesting look at it from the possibility of them being much larger than the average apartment. 2500-3k sq footers. Maybe even multi level. It does reduce the amount of plumbing work and you can get some more bang for you buck there by sharing walls for plumbing needs like bathrooms and laundry/etc.

The size of these floorplates is not just SOOO huge. Maybe make each building its own identity. You could turn one building into full floor lofts. Minimal build-out. One, the customer does the build-out as part of a condo-type ownership. One could be the typical normal apartments. The possibilities are pretty open and endless there in terms of how much you want to put into it and how much space you create for each unit. Hell, you could have one building that's only a couple of HUGE units. There are people out there that would love that. We don't have those anywhere really in town like that, in an area like this. They dont want ANY lawn. They dont want to have to mess with repairs/etc. But they want SIZE.

It is way more complicated than you express here. There are demising walls to consider. Support walls that can’t just be eliminated or moved. HVAC system changes. Sewer changes. Total rewiring. Total plumbing. Common area access (elevators, lobbies, halls, fire exits, etc) would likely have to be reconfigured.

The idea that this can be easily or affordably done is a myth.

[Pete]

^

AKM had these very grandiose plans to build out that eastern half of the campus as housing then have NHP and Classen Curve be a part of a lifestyle village for all of Chesapeake.

He talked about it openly before everything came crashing down spectacularly.

[jn1780]

So what are some realistic commercial prospects/ideas? Building 13,14,and 15 seem like they would be easier to sale.

[PhiAlpha]

As I've said before, I believe very strongly this is an urban myth.

I've seen the plans for all their buildings and they are all typical office buildings.

if that is the case, it will be interesting to see what happens there.

[warreng88]

So what are some realistic commercial prospects/ideas? Building 13,14,and 15 seem like they would be easier to sale.

Yeah, but they are still 400-800 people office buildings. I guess they could be broken up by floor, but I don't know what the need for office in the area is like. Midfirst has a bunch of open offices in 1,2 and 3 grand, so they aren't busting at the seams. Maybe another company looking to relocate?

[king183]

if that is the case, it will be interesting to see what happens there.

They will likely either commit to being a landlord and move in more state agencies and non-profits or they’ll sell it. But it’s going to take a mindset shift on their behalf.

[bombermwc]

It is way more complicated than you express here. There are demising walls to consider. Support walls that can’t just be eliminated or moved. HVAC system changes. Sewer changes. Total rewiring. Total plumbing. Common area access (elevators, lobbies, halls, fire exits, etc) would likely have to be reconfigured.

The idea that this can be easily or affordably done is a myth.

I think we're all well aware of what goes into the conversion. The number of these projects downtown and their expense, shows exactally what all is involved. You get the benefit here of not being downtown so the buildings dont cost as much and there isn't any sort of historic element to contend with.

I'm not pretending it wont be expensive by any means. I'm just proposing that thinking differently than cookie cutter 500 sqft apartments would be something new and would work here in a way it probably wouldn't work in some other areas of town.

Also, btw, the majority of the walls on these are not load bearing. There are certainly some core type walls to consider, but they are pretty dang small floorplates that don't require a column every 6 ft or anything. I'm not trying to oversimplify, but let's also not over complicate.

[Pete]

The number of these projects downtown and their expense, shows exactally what all is involved. You get the benefit here of not being downtown so the buildings dont cost as much and there isn't any sort of historic element to contend with.

Chesapeake has been asking more for their property (both rent and sale) than those converted downtown properties.

[Rover]

I think we're all well aware of what goes into the conversion. The number of these projects downtown and their expense, shows exactally what all is involved. You get the benefit here of not being downtown so the buildings dont cost as much and there isn't any sort of historic element to contend with.

I'm not pretending it wont be expensive by any means. I'm just proposing that thinking differently than cookie cutter 500 sqft apartments would be something new and would work here in a way it probably wouldn't work in some other areas of town.

Also, btw, the majority of the walls on these are not load bearing. There are certainly some core type walls to consider, but they are pretty dang small floorplates that don't require a column every 6 ft or anything. I'm not trying to oversimplify, but let's also not over complicate.

So you’ve seen the structural plans of the buildings? You make a bunch of assumptions.

Every structure has different issues and opportunities, so you can’t just directly compare a building because of location and age. We do forensic engineering on commercial properties and I can tell you from years of experience that they are all very different.

[jn1780]

Chesapeake has been asking more for their property (both rent and sale) than those converted downtown properties.

I think most of us will agree that most of these buildings will most likely sit for awhile until that changes. The commercial demand just isn't there, unless a company buys or rents them for dirt cheap.

[Pete]

I think most of us will agree that most of these buildings will most likely sit for awhile until that changes. The commercial demand just isn't there, unless a company buys or rents them for dirt cheap.

They've already been on the market for years and years.

[PhiAlpha]

I think most of us will agree that most of these buildings will most likely sit for awhile until that changes. The commercial demand just isn't there, unless a company buys or rents them for dirt cheap.

They've already been on the market for years and years.

It would seem that their decision to move everyone into one building across the road from the original campus would signal an impending change in mindset/strategy here.

[Pete]

It would seem that their decision to move everyone into one building across the road from the original campus would signal an impending change in mindset/strategy here.

Except they already had a bunch of vacant buildings on the market before this announcement.

[G.Walker]

I think most of us will agree that most of these buildings will most likely sit for awhile until that changes. The commercial demand just isn't there, unless a company buys or rents them for dirt cheap.

The way the campus is currently set up, makes sense to convert the offices into apartments/condos. That is the current trend right now across the nation, converting glut of old office space that has been sitting vacant into housing.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the outcome.