Oklahoma liquor laws

[sooner88]

That's what it sounds like. However, I think that's an acceptable trade-off for having real beer and wine much more accessible. Maybe it would be different if I would have been living in Oklahoma when I started drinking, but I just can't do 3.2 beer. So as far as I am concerned, alcohol for off-premises consumption is currently only available M-F and until 9PM.

No complaints here, this is much better. Similar to Texas in that regard.

[barrettd]

Why not? Are the new laws just for off site consumption. It would seem logical that with the new liquor laws the night clubs could serve alcohol past 2am.

I thought you were heading in the direction of clubs getting cut off sooner.

I still don't understand why the sale of liquor in stores would affect the sale of liquor in a bar, though. Can you help me with the logic?

[loveOKC]

I thought you were heading in the direction of clubs getting cut off sooner.

I still don't understand why the sale of liquor in stores would affect the sale of liquor in a bar, though. Can you help me with the logic?

It wouldn’t. I didn’t know this bill was only for convienece stores, liquor stores and grocery.

My thought was since they are overhauling the liquor laws, this bill will change how late night clubs and bars can serve alcohol. As it stands nightclubs shut down at 2am, can’t sell liquor past 1:30 am.

[barrettd]

It wouldn’t. I didn’t know this bill was only for convienece stores, liquor stores and grocery.

My thought was since they are overhauling the liquor laws, this bill will change how late night clubs and bars can serve alcohol. As it stands nightclubs shut down at 2am, can’t sell liquor past 1:30 am.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. Yeah, I don't believe clubs and bars hours of service are affected. They will be affected in other ways by low point beer going away.

[BoulderSooner]

It wouldn’t. I didn’t know this bill was only for convienece stores, liquor stores and grocery.

My thought was since they are overhauling the liquor laws, this bill will change how late night clubs and bars can serve alcohol. As it stands nightclubs shut down at 2am, can’t sell liquor past 1:30 am.

there is no law that they cant serve past 1:30 am currently

[okcpulse]

1) Midnight
2) Midnight
3) They can now, county option. Liquor stores will also be able to be open on Sunday, county option.

Actually, convenience stores and grocery stores will still be able to sell 6AM-2AM, seven days a week. This was covered a lot in the press. Liquor stores can open from 8AM to Midnight Monday thru Saturday, and as swake said, Sunday by county option, though I haven't seen any information on the hours of sale for Sunday.

[loveOKC]

there is no law that they cant serve past 1:30 am currently

Is there a law that’s says they have to close at 2am? If not, why do the nightclubs all close at 2am?

Also will the new laws change bottle service in nightclubs. As it stands I can’t buy bottles of liquor in the club.

[jerrywall]

Is there a law that’s says they have to close at 2am? If not, why do the nightclubs all close at 2am?

They last call at 1:30 because they have to close at 2. Well, most places. I know a few that will lock their doors at 2 for their regulars but dont want to get them in trouble. I've spent the night at a few places.

[loveOKC]

They last call at 1:30 because they have to close at 2. Well, most places. I know a few that will lock their doors at 2 for their regulars but dont want to get them in trouble. I've spent the night at a few places.

Will the new laws allow them to stay open past 2am?

[jerrywall]

Not that I've seen.

[bchris02]

Will the new laws allow them to stay open past 2am?

No. The new liquor laws only affect off-premises consumption.

While I think it would be nice if Oklahoma would visit the idea of allowing after-hours bars/clubs, I don't see it happening. For one, the current laws, though stricter than some states, aren't unreasonably restrictive and other states are worse. Utah for instance shuts down at midnight and several other states shut down at 1am.

[loveOKC]

Thanks everyone, just thinking about the few times I may go out or late Thunder games how it would be nice for a club to stay open till 4am and have the ability to have bottle service at your table or section.

[bluedogok]

We’ve been to Taprooms for soccer watch parties, with a food truck in the parking lot and games and activities for people there, it’s a different atmosphere than bars.

We have a brewery/taproom (Two22 Brew) a couple of miles from our house here in far SE Aurora/Centennial that is that way, they have food trucks daily. They also brew their own root beer and have regular non-alcoholic drinks as well.

[d-usa]

Quick question:

do we know if there are any rules affecting the whole "nobody under 21 allowed in the store" issue that liquor stores currently have? I know it really shouldn't be an issue now with the grocery store option, but in the past it's been a pain in the rear if I need to grab a bottle of wine for a recipe with my kids in tow. So in the past my option would be to buy "cooking wine" at a grocery store, stand in the doorway of the liquor store while holding my kiddos and sending the clerk on an errant to find me a bottle of wine, or leaving the kids in the car.

At least now I can just pick up the wine with my other groceries, but it seems like that is just one more random rule that would hurt the existing stores when it comes to competing with the big box stores.

[jedicurt]

Quick question:

do we know if there are any rules affecting the whole "nobody under 21 allowed in the store" issue that liquor stores currently have? I know it really shouldn't be an issue now with the grocery store option, but in the past it's been a pain in the rear if I need to grab a bottle of wine for a recipe with my kids in tow. So in the past my option would be to buy "cooking wine" at a grocery store, stand in the doorway of the liquor store while holding my kiddos and sending the clerk on an errant to find me a bottle of wine, or leaving the kids in the car.

At least now I can just pick up the wine with my other groceries, but it seems like that is just one more random rule that would hurt the existing stores when it comes to competing with the big box stores.

From what I have heard. liquor stores are still 21 and older... could have been something they got changed, had they not spent the whole time opposing any changes at all.

[Midtowner]

The law really should allow minors into liquor stores if accompanied by a parent or guardian. Might even save a few kids from dying in hot cars.

[jedicurt]

The law really should allow minors into liquor stores if accompanied by a parent or guardian. Might even save a few kids from dying in hot cars.

And it easily could have... Liquor stores hardly got anything out of this because they were more worried about keeping their almost 100 year monopoly. It is their own fault that these changes don't benefit them more.

Now that we have crossed the big bridge, I think we will see more minor adjustments keep coming with regards to alcohol laws. and this very well could be one of them in the near future

[Johnb911]

Allowing minors in the store, and allowing them to operate on holidays (memorial day, 4th of july) is something I believe will happen eventually. Or at least it should.

Does anyone know about the sunday sales by county vote? Did I miss that?

[jedicurt]

Does anyone know about the sunday sales by county vote? Did I miss that?

Senate Bill 211 will allow the citizens of each county to vote whether or not they want liquor stores to be allowed to open on Sundays. The county commissioner will be allowed to set the date for the vote or a petition with signatures from 15 percent of the county’s population will also initiate a voting date in that county.

I don't think any vote can happen before October 1st. I figure this will probably be on most November ballots for counties

[jerrywall]

. Liquor stores hardly got anything out of this because they were more worried about keeping their almost 100 year monopoly. It is their own fault that these changes don't benefit them more.

Wow, we had package liquor stores in Oklahoma 20 years before prohibition ended?

And monopoly. Folks keep using this word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

[jedicurt]

Wow, we had package liquor stores in Oklahoma 20 years before prohibition ended?

And monopoly. Folks keep using this word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

key word... almost... if you are going to question my ability to know what words mean... look up the word "almost"..

and according to Merriam Webster, 3rd definition of monopoly, a commodity controlled by one party. so in this case... highpoint beer, wine, and liquor, and the sell of it for home or offsite consumption. the RLA has had sole control of this entire market for decades. So I don't find anything wrong with my use of the word monopoly. the Retail Liquor Association would be one party, and controlled said commodity.

[jerrywall]

Heh.. less than 60 is "almost" 100. You round like my wife does (although she tends to go the other direction).

The RLA has existed for about 10 years, and is a trade association. All the stores are competitors. No single point of control. Anyone can open a store. This is like saying all the fast food places that sell pizza have a monopoly on selling fast food pizza. There was no party controlling the sell of liquor in Oklahoma, besides ABLE who regulates it.

This is a problem with this discussion. Tons of people who actually no nothing about how the liquor industry works in Oklahoma or the history of it seem to have lots of soundbite opinions they picked off of facebook or whatever.

[jedicurt]

Heh.. less than 60 is "almost" 100. You round like my wife does (although she tends to go the other direction).

The RLA has existed for about 10 years, and is a trade association. All the stores are competitors. No single point of control. Anyone can open a store. This is like saying all the fast food places that sell pizza have a monopoly on selling fast food pizza. There was no party controlling the sell of liquor in Oklahoma, besides ABLE who regulates it.

This is a problem with this discussion. Tons of people who actually no nothing about how the liquor industry works in Oklahoma or the history of it seem to have lots of soundbite opinions they picked off of facebook or whatever.

I will give you that I misspoke in making the statement about the RLA for the whole history of it... you are correct. they had different ways of lobbying before that. And you can still have a monopoly amongst competing individuals and owners, if the industry as a whole is significantly limited in scope as to who can compete. this is why Major League Baseball (a bunch of individual owners of a similar product who compete) fought to get an Anti-Trust exemption by the US government. a good example of this is the factors that the FTC says it uses to determine if a monopoly is taking place... most notably Market Power.
From the FTC website https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/comp...zation-defined

Notice that under market power it says the following

Market Power

Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. Courts look at the firm's market share, but typically do not find monopoly power if the firm (or a group of firms acting in concert) has less than 50 percent of the sales of a particular product or service within a certain geographic area. Some courts have required much higher percentages. In addition, that leading position must be sustainable over time: if competitive forces or the entry of new firms could discipline the conduct of the leading firm, courts are unlikely to find that the firm has lasting market power.

make sure to not the (or a group of firms acting in concert)

But a monopoly doesn't always have to be illegal. there are legal monopolies. and in this case there was a Legal Justification of the monopoly... because it was instituted by law. so while it is a legal monopoly... it's still by definition a monopoly.
again from the FTC website

Business Justification

Finally, the monopolist may have a legitimate business justification for behaving in a way that prevents other firms from succeeding in the marketplace. For instance, the monopolist may be competing on the merits in a way that benefits consumers through greater efficiency or a unique set of products or services. In the end, courts will decide whether the monopolist's success is due to "the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen, or historic accident."

next... ABLE can only interrupt and enforce the laws on the books, they can not create laws. so there was a party controlling the sell of liquor... the group that passed the law and the only group that can change that law... and the liquor stores have always lobbied against any changes that would allow for any change in the market place.

you have no clue as to my knowledge of how the liquor industry works, and instead of giving a counter-point to the original comment and continue with intellectual conversation, you feel the need to attack and question peoples ability to have the discussion by claiming they are not qualified to do so.

here is the reality of why the liquor stores didn't get their way. the RLAO on behalf of it's members fought since it's creation to keep it's members as the sole point of sale for home consumption of anything but low-point beer and wines. And when a massive effort was being done in the legislature to modernize the liquor laws of Oklahoma. It was the RLAO who provided even stronger resistance than MADD and many Christian groups. the end result was that they were not brought to the table to discuss many of the changes. the CBAO lobbyist, and the lobbyist for the OGIC, as well as lobbyist for OGA were brought to the table. they set about crafting this new legislation with the legislators. And they were even willing to make some changes for liquor stores in the process. But the reason the liquor stores didn't get everything they wanted, and everything people hoped for is because their representative organization spent all of their time and money to stop it from happening at all in order to protect the strict rules and advantages they had as being the sole provider of these good, that it ended up not helping them near as much as it could have.

That is not my opinion... that is the facts of what occurred with regards to State Question 792

please feel free to add any constructive input you have to refute anything that was said there. sorry, I may not be able to respond in a timely fashion as it is almost time for me to leave work (another hour... sorry if that almost is too far of a rounding error for you)

[jedicurt]

This is like saying all the fast food places that sell pizza have a monopoly on selling fast food pizza. .

except that I can make pizza at home, and consume it there. there are pizza options available at non fast food locations... grocery stores are able to sell pizza frozen, as well as hot... gas stations can sell pizza as well. so they really wouldn't have a monopoly on it... would they...

[Johnb911]

Senate Bill 211 will allow the citizens of each county to vote whether or not they want liquor stores to be allowed to open on Sundays. The county commissioner will be allowed to set the date for the vote or a petition with signatures from 15 percent of the county’s population will also initiate a voting date in that county.

I don't think any vote can happen before October 1st. I figure this will probably be on most November ballots for counties

Thanks, I remember there was supposed to be a county by county vote, just hadn't heard anything about it and wondered how long after October 1 it would take to get that into effect. Baby steps...