Population Growth for OKC

[Mike_M]

I can’t let this go by...

WTH do you mean, “...for white families?” “Old people?”
We can’t normalize racism against white people in the name of fighting racism.
It seems somehow okay(?) to say things like this and not get called on it.
What is it about the zoo and the Thunder (mostly black men) that makes these things only for white families? The insertion of race into your comment was uncalled for and I wasn’t going to just let it pass by without comment.

I didn't want to bring it up because I knew it would draw this level of overreaction and turn into a HEAVILY political fight. It's honestly infuriating that the political circus has hijacked what should be a really civil discourse.

Sigh, I guess its time to jump off the fence...

The fact is that a straight white male can go to ANY CITY and have the exact same experience and lifestyle if he wants. For most of you it's just " Food? check. Costco? Check. Theater? check. Live Music? check. See it's the exact same but cheaper!"

That is simply not true for those of the vast number of minorities. In Oklahoma, the minority is VERY minor. There are so many great things about this city, but if you aren't 100% drinking the OKC kool-aid, you are basically on the outside. I'm not just talking about racial minority. If you're a creative or entrepreneur, there's basically 1 or 2 seats at the table. That table is usually owned by a white guy.

Just for fun because you mentioned it, the Thunder branding is basically as a-cultural as you could ever imagine. Up until last year, It's basically just been Microsoft Word Art on random colors. It took 11 years to even BEGIN to reference native american culture. The music played in the arenas is nothing but oldies and the Black Eyed Peas. They might get super funky (sarc) with some Drake. Why? Because you don't want to scare/offend the majority of the big ticket holders in the 100's.

EBAH hit it on the head. Oklahoma is safe. If you are otherwise completely fulfilled and just need a cheap place to live, eat and be mildly entertained, then this is great. You will definitely have a fine time. But there are places out there at are worth traffic and taxes. I think it's okay to acknowledge that not everyone fits in here. There's a lot of great things going for this city, but diversity is just not one of them. If you aren't a minority, I don't think you have a right to argue otherwise.

[bchris02]

I can’t let this go by...

WTH do you mean, “...for white families?” “Old people?”
We can’t normalize racism against white people in the name of fighting racism.
It seems somehow okay(?) to say things like this and not get called on it.
What is it about the zoo and the Thunder (mostly black men) that makes these things only for white families? The insertion of race into your comment was uncalled for and I wasn’t going to just let it pass by without comment.

They would have been better off just saying "basic" which is probably what they meant.

Which brings me to a point. I think OKC, as it stands now, mostly appeals to those who want a basic, conservative lifestyle while still having some big city amenities available. It's for people who partake in niche activities seldom enough that it isn't an issue for them to drive to Dallas to do it when they need to. With that said, the city is currently undergoing a transition as downtown springs to life. There's starting to be a lot more niche amenities available here, its just not yet on the level of major cities. As another poster said, 30 years ago the art museum was at the fairgrounds, Cattleman's was probably the best "fine dining" option you had here, and there probably wasn't much of a live music scene that wasn't red dirt country. There was no Thunder, Plaza District, or even Bricktown for that matter. Mamasita's was the trendiest bar in town.

OKC is far beyond that today, but as the city progresses, people are naturally going to expect more and more.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I didn't want to bring it up because I knew it would draw this level of overreaction and turn into a HEAVILY political fight. It's honestly infuriating that the political circus has hijacked what should be a really civil discourse.

Sigh, I guess its time to jump off the fence...

The fact is that a straight white male can go to ANY CITY and have the exact same experience and lifestyle if he wants. For most of you it's just " Food? check. Costco? Check. Theater? check. Live Music? check. See it's the exact same but cheaper!"

That is simply not true for those of the vast number of minorities. In Oklahoma, the minority is VERY minor. There are so many great things about this city, but if you aren't 100% drinking the OKC kool-aid, you are basically on the outside. I'm not just talking about racial minority. If you're a creative or entrepreneur, there's basically 1 or 2 seats at the table. That table is usually owned by a white guy.

Just for fun because you mentioned it, the Thunder branding is basically as a-cultural as you could ever imagine. Up until last year, It's basically just been Microsoft Word Art on random colors. It took 11 years to even BEGIN to reference native american culture. The music played in the arenas is nothing but oldies and the Black Eyed Peas. They might get super funky (sarc) with some Drake. Why? Because you don't want to scare/offend the majority of the big ticket holders in the 100's.

EBAH hit it on the head. Oklahoma is safe. If you are otherwise completely fulfilled and just need a cheap place to live, eat and be mildly entertained, then this is great. You will definitely have a fine time. But there are places out there at are worth traffic and taxes. I think it's okay to acknowledge that not everyone fits in here. There's a lot of great things going for this city, but diversity is just not one of them. If you aren't a minority, I don't think you have a right to argue otherwise.

Please. I *point out* the racist comment in this thread of civil discourse and I am the one that took it off the rails? I’m a progressive and am tired of the race hustling. Do blacks and other minorities not eat food? Go to Costco?

[bchris02]

The fact is that a straight white male can go to ANY CITY and have the exact same experience and lifestyle if he wants. For most of you it's just " Food? check. Costco? Check. Theater? check. Live Music? check. See it's the exact same but cheaper!"

One other thing I want to point out about OKC is that the LGBT scene is an absolute joke for a city this size. I'm not talking about LGBT-friendliness as much as activities available for gay people to meet other people other than bars or phone apps. The 39th St strip is neglected and depressing and desperately needs some investment to bring it out of the 1980s. It needs to be integrated into the urban fabric of the city like gayborhoods are in just about every other small and major city in 2019. Living here really feels like living in a small town stuck in the past in that respect.

[EBAH]

I can’t let this go by...

WTH do you mean, “...for white families?” “Old people?”
We can’t normalize racism against white people in the name of fighting racism.
It seems somehow okay(?) to say things like this and not get called on it.
What is it about the zoo and the Thunder (mostly black men) that makes these things only for white families? The insertion of race into your comment was uncalled for and I wasn’t going to just let it pass by without comment.

HAHA woah, ok, I wasn't being racist at all, I Was saying, I'm not a christian suburbanite with kids, so a lot of these things don't really appeal so much to me. A lot of these amenities look more attractive if you're taking your family out, but I'm that kind of customer and I'm giving you my viewpoint that the kind of art, culture, etc that I'm looking for that IS common in larger markets or more vibrant ones is harder to come by.

[EBAH]

I didn't want to bring it up because I knew it would draw this level of overreaction and turn into a HEAVILY political fight. It's honestly infuriating that the political circus has hijacked what should be a really civil discourse.

Sigh, I guess its time to jump off the fence...

The fact is that a straight white male can go to ANY CITY and have the exact same experience and lifestyle if he wants. For most of you it's just " Food? check. Costco? Check. Theater? check. Live Music? check. See it's the exact same but cheaper!"

That is simply not true for those of the vast number of minorities. In Oklahoma, the minority is VERY minor. There are so many great things about this city, but if you aren't 100% drinking the OKC kool-aid, you are basically on the outside. I'm not just talking about racial minority. If you're a creative or entrepreneur, there's basically 1 or 2 seats at the table. That table is usually owned by a white guy.

Just for fun because you mentioned it, the Thunder branding is basically as a-cultural as you could ever imagine. Up until last year, It's basically just been Microsoft Word Art on random colors. It took 11 years to even BEGIN to reference native american culture. The music played in the arenas is nothing but oldies and the Black Eyed Peas. They might get super funky (sarc) with some Drake. Why? Because you don't want to scare/offend the majority of the big ticket holders in the 100's.

EBAH hit it on the head. Oklahoma is safe. If you are otherwise completely fulfilled and just need a cheap place to live, eat and be mildly entertained, then this is great. You will definitely have a fine time. But there are places out there at are worth traffic and taxes. I think it's okay to acknowledge that not everyone fits in here. There's a lot of great things going for this city, but diversity is just not one of them. If you aren't a minority, I don't think you have a right to argue otherwise.

Exactly, sometimes I feel like OKC has a catch 22 problem, like, Good news is, this place is cheap, bad news is, you get what you pay for

[EBAH]

Dallas is over rated on this board and with many folks in Ok. It's not that great of a city IMO.

Very much agreed

[mugofbeer]

One other thing I want to point out about OKC is that the LGBT scene is an absolute joke for a city this size. I'm not talking about LGBT-friendliness as much as activities available for gay people to meet other people other than bars or phone apps. The 39th St strip is neglected and depressing and desperately needs some investment to bring it out of the 1980s. It needs to be integrated into the urban fabric of the city like gayborhoods are in just about every other small and major city in 2019. Living here really feels like living in a small town stuck in the past in that respect.

I'm not gay and can't speak for anyone of that group but isn't it like any other ethnic group and is simply a matter of comfort? Dallas is that huge sucking machine that takes about everything around it - seemingly including gay people. I understand issues with conservative religious influence in OK but they most certainly exist in Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans and Houston. It seems it is an issue of comfort, employment, gay-centered activities and "coolness" that exists in those cities. I don't see/hear of any real gay leaders in the OKC community. In Denver, they are totally involved in the growth of the city - funding of businesses, restaurants and bars, real estate projects, etc. - not to mention our Governor.

[EBAH]

I'm not gay and can't speak for anyone of that group but isn't it like any other ethnic group and is simply a matter of comfort? Dallas is that huge sucking machine that takes about everything around it - seemingly including gay people. I understand issues with conservative religious influence in OK but they most certainly exist in Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans and Houston. It seems it is an issue of comfort, employment, gay-centered activities and "coolness" that exists in those cities. I don't see/hear of any real gay leaders in the OKC community. In Denver, they are totally involved in the growth of the city - funding of businesses, restaurants and bars, real estate projects, etc. - not to mention our Governor.

well good news there is we actually just elected our first openly gay councilman

[mugofbeer]

Cool. Didn't know.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeaaaaaaaah I’m usually the first to criticize OKC but as someone who doesn’t want to live there I am still calling bull on many of the claims made agains the city. It’s a matter of opinion of course, but after having been to many art museums and cultural attractions as I get more involved with it in LA, I see OKC has some pretty good museums and amenities. Obviously they compare to what a cosmopolitan city can offer but how many cities of OKC’s size does? Tulsa is incredibly lucky to have something like the Gilcrease Museum. I often here many in LA community complain that our museums are lacking even with having a museum like The Getty.

As far as some of the other criticisms like “the city is geared for old white people,” what a quick way to instantly ruin any credibility you had. Mayor Holt even just came out and said he is making seeking a more diverse voice for the city one of his main objectives. Quit living in the past. OKC is a very diverse city. Almost every time I’m in the core I always here a chatter of about 2-3 foreign languages and I constantly meet foreigners who have settled down there and love it. My entire family is Persian and Brazilian and they love OKC. No issue with “amenities geared towards white old people.”

[Plutonic Panda]

One other thing I want to point out about OKC is that the LGBT scene is an absolute joke for a city this size. I'm not talking about LGBT-friendliness as much as activities available for gay people to meet other people other than bars or phone apps. The 39th St strip is neglected and depressing and desperately needs some investment to bring it out of the 1980s. It needs to be integrated into the urban fabric of the city like gayborhoods are in just about every other small and major city in 2019. Living here really feels like living in a small town stuck in the past in that respect.

Some people ought to be part of the change. Food for thought.

[dankrutka]

I live in DFW and so here's a few thoughts.

First, DFW's sprawl mitigates some of its advantages because traffic and distance make the additional amenities unrealistic. For example, DFW has an MLB team. Guess what? Getting to Arlington is a nightmare so we never actually go even though we'd love to. It's worth pointing out that there's no public transportation to Arlington because of greedy billionaires who control city councils and wanted to make huge profits off parking. Many of the same sprawl reasons apply to the MLS team in Frisco. Still, the Mavs and Stars are easier to see as there actually is public transportation that can get you there and the area is more worth visiting. So, DFW should be better than it is. Moreover, since DFW is sprawly, it really doesn't have the urban fabric it should have. Yes, Deep Ellum and Bishop Arts are great (if not gentrifying) districts, but are they that much better than the Plaza District and OKC's other emerging districts? Moreover, I'll point out that OKC's brewery scene, for example, is flat out better than DFWs. The density of breweries in the core and quality of breweries makes it a better place for craft beer drinkers... and breweries are actually great community spaces. Anyway, just pointing out that some areas where DFW should be great are just not the case.

I lost the rest of this post because the site made me re-log in for same reason, but I wrote a long explanation of how DFW does have real advantages too (e.g., LGBTQ, Mexican-American communities) and you can live in walkable areas and avoid the traffic (I do). Sorry, I just can't retype out that part of my post again.

[Plutonic Panda]

Regarding sprawl and traffic making trips to certain amenities not worthwhile, you just described every major in the US.

[mugofbeer]

Yes, to some extent but not to others. DFW is special when it comes to how much land it takes up and how much it has changed in 20 years since I lived there. It is nothing short of colossally huge - then there's the Ft. Worth side.......

[TheTravellers]

... I see plenty of minorities in attendance at the theater, philharmonic, museums.

...

TBH, I don't. Went to 3 ballets this season (8 PM Sat night for all), saw maybe 10 black people total, and not many more than that of other minority groups (and I generally look around during intermissions). Don't go to the Phil, but at any OKCMOA exhibit (we go on Sat afternoons, usually), we hardly ever see anybody except white people.

[bchris02]

First, DFW's sprawl mitigates some of its advantages because traffic and distance make the additional amenities unrealistic. For example, DFW has an MLB team. Guess what? Getting to Arlington is a nightmare so we never actually go even though we'd love to. It's worth pointing out that there's no public transportation to Arlington because of greedy billionaires who control city councils and wanted to make huge profits off parking. Many of the same sprawl reasons apply to the MLS team in Frisco. Still, the Mavs and Stars are easier to see as there actually is public transportation that can get you there and the area is more worth visiting. So, DFW should be better than it is. Moreover, since DFW is sprawly, it really doesn't have the urban fabric it should have. Yes, Deep Ellum and Bishop Arts are great (if not gentrifying) districts, but are they that much better than the Plaza District and OKC's other emerging districts? Moreover, I'll point out that OKC's brewery scene, for example, is flat out better than DFWs. The density of breweries in the core and quality of breweries makes it a better place for craft beer drinkers... and breweries are actually great community spaces. Anyway, just pointing out that some areas where DFW should be great are just not the case.

Just a few years ago I would have said DFW and Texas was light years ahead but now I'd say I'm pretty satisfied with the beer scene in OKC. I also think Oklahoma will probably end up with recreational marijuana before Texas even has medical.

I think what may be really needed is a change in marketing approach for OKC. More people need to be made of aware of niche activities OKC does offer. What changes are needed or what they would look like, I'm not sure.

[Mike_M]

Yeaaaaaaaah I’m usually the first to criticize OKC but as someone who doesn’t want to live there I am still calling bull on many of the claims made agains the city. It’s a matter of opinion of course, but after having been to many art museums and cultural attractions as I get more involved with it in LA, I see OKC has some pretty good museums and amenities. Obviously they compare to what a cosmopolitan city can offer but how many cities of OKC’s size does? Tulsa is incredibly lucky to have something like the Gilcrease Museum. I often here many in LA community complain that our museums are lacking even with having a museum like The Getty.

As far as some of the other criticisms like “the city is geared for old white people,” what a quick way to instantly ruin any credibility you had. Mayor Holt even just came out and said he is making seeking a more diverse voice for the city one of his main objectives. Quit living in the past. OKC is a very diverse city. Almost every time I’m in the core I always here a chatter of about 2-3 foreign languages and I constantly meet foreigners who have settled down there and love it. My entire family is Persian and Brazilian and they love OKC. No issue with “amenities geared towards white old people.”

In other words, "I refuse to acknowledge your experience because it is not mine." Cool bro...

[bchris02]

In other words, "I refuse to acknowledge your experience because it is not mine." Cool bro...

Yeah, every person's experience is different. My biggest reason for wanting to leave is personal and has nothing to do with what the city does or doesn't offer.

[Plutonic Panda]

In other words, "I refuse to acknowledge your experience because it is not mine." Cool bro...

Oh please I even said it was my opinion. A little reading comprehension goes along way. I swear this forum has some of the most thin skinned posters I’ve seen on any forum online.

Using your logic I could’ve copied and paste exactly what you said to a vast majority of the latest posts here. It is a meaningless response you posted.

Edit: I should not have said the whole forum rather than a select few posters who pull this crap. I should not have to emphasize every time I post my opinion that is an opinion.

[chuck5815]

I can’t think of any reason why I would drive to Dallas because it “has something OKC doesn’t.”

[bchris02]

I can’t think of any reason why I would drive to Dallas because it “has something OKC doesn’t.”

I'm going this weekend to hit up the bars in Oak Lawn. OKC has nothing like it.

But I definitely see your point.

[mugofbeer]

I can’t think of any reason why I would drive to Dallas because it “has something OKC doesn’t.”

Half my fun of going to DFW is to see all the new building, rail and highway construction. There are always new things - gotta see the new baseball stadium next.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Half my fun of going to DFW is to see all the new building, rail and highway construction. There are always new things - gotta see the new baseball stadium next.

It’s quite a city. I’m with you, checking out all that’s new is incredibly fun.
Houston is the same way, just not the quick drive from OKC.

[EBAH]

Yeaaaaaaaah I’m usually the first to criticize OKC but as someone who doesn’t want to live there I am still calling bull on many of the claims made agains the city. It’s a matter of opinion of course, but after having been to many art museums and cultural attractions as I get more involved with it in LA, I see OKC has some pretty good museums and amenities. Obviously they compare to what a cosmopolitan city can offer but how many cities of OKC’s size does? Tulsa is incredibly lucky to have something like the Gilcrease Museum. I often here many in LA community complain that our museums are lacking even with having a museum like The Getty.

As far as some of the other criticisms like “the city is geared for old white people,” what a quick way to instantly ruin any credibility you had. Mayor Holt even just came out and said he is making seeking a more diverse voice for the city one of his main objectives. Quit living in the past. OKC is a very diverse city. Almost every time I’m in the core I always here a chatter of about 2-3 foreign languages and I constantly meet foreigners who have settled down there and love it. My entire family is Persian and Brazilian and they love OKC. No issue with “amenities geared towards white old people.”

I mean, man, it's fine if you disagree, and I get you may have different tastes, but really, I've lived here for 38 years, I also travel VERY extensively, I do go to other museums, I do take in a lot of other places and a lot of the available things here. Also, for the thousanth time, dude all I Was commenting on really was that we don't have a diverse enough labor market for me to find a job here doing what I do that pays what I cost. It's as simple as that, we don't have tech, we don't have consumer products companies. We just don't have the jobs, and my original post was that yeah I find a lot of the amenities lacking, but the art I make with friends and the scene I'm in here makes up for that. But, we don't have jobs for me. But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much. I mean dude, I went to a fabulous Jean Arp exhibition at the Nasher a month or so ago in Dallas, across from the retrospective on American Precisionism at DMA, a little while prior to that I went to the Stuart Davis retrospective at Crystal Bridges, and on and on and on, these are all actually super softball, wide audience kind of traveling exhibits and still massively better than the bible exhibits and paper dress exhibits that the OKCMOA get (I mean we have an impressionism exhibit coming up, but godamn man, its not the 60's). I do actually know what I'm talking about and I find your tone pretty condescending. I don't hate this city at all, but it IS geared to middle class families from the suburbs for the most part because that's who pays the bills. Fact is if youre like me and are 38 and dont have kids around here and haven't moved to Moore or Edmond, you're weird and this city isn't really made for you. But really, I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's my home, born and raised and I enjoy it too, I just always wish it could grow out of it's comfy little niche and be a little more edgy, a little more exciting.