Uptown / 23rd District

[BDP]

Much needed, but bummer to lose the trees. They’re something OKC could use a lot more of.

There are definitely parts of the city that could use more trees, especially more mature ones, but the neighborhoods in this area have some of the best variety of older trees in the city.

But it does seem, especially in commercial or civic projects, whenever an area gets "reimagined" or redeveloped, the current inventory of trees are a casualty, and newer trees are brought in, which just resets the area to younger, less mature trees, again.

[Qwo]

23rd St can either be a pedestrian friendly commercial corridor or it can be a wide speedy throughway for drivers. It cannot be both.

[Thunderbolt]

https://www.koco.com/article/okc-dis...bW15MTZieXRlcw

[PhiAlpha]

23rd St can either be a pedestrian friendly commercial corridor or it can be a wide speedy throughway for drivers. It cannot be both.

I would hardly consider it a speedy throughway right now. It’s really the only major road that runs uninterrupted from one end of the inner core to the other. It doesn’t have to be fast, it just needs to be wide enough to handle the volume. It sounds like it will remain 4 lanes so it should be fine.

[BDP]

From the two renderings in the KOCO piece, it looks like they're taking out the median and, possibly, paralleled parking in order to make the sidewalks bigger and it will stay a four lane road.

Doesn't look like any dedicated bike lanes, but I guess the removal of parallel parking helps cyclists.

[cinnamonjock]

Seems like I remember something about bike facilities being placed on 22nd and 24th streets, which would be safer and more comfortable anyway

[warreng88]

Seems like I remember something about bike facilities being placed on 22nd and 24th streets, which would be safer and more comfortable anyway

Yeah, I remember that being the case too. I would prefer that, mostly from the perspective of the cyclist and them being safer.

[josefromtulsa]

Jesus hopefully not. Im usually all for reducing lanes but absolutely not on 23rd. Way too much traffic for that.

The traffic levels are only half the maximum before FHWA recommends against road diets.

From FHWA: A Road Diet can be a low-cost safety solution when planned in conjunction with a simple pavement overlay, and the reconfiguration can be accomplished at no additional cost. Typically, a Road Diet is implemented on a roadway with a current and future average daily traffic of 25,000 or less. Sourcehttp://https://highways.dot.gov/safe...econfiguration



Im sorry if your drive through my neighborhood is 30-60 seconds longer but I'd like to be able to walk safely to and from the shops and not have to play frogger.

[BDP]

Yeah, I remember that being the case too. I would prefer that, mostly from the perspective of the cyclist and them being safer.

Agree. I'm not sure there's anything they could do to 23rd street that would make me want to ride my bike on it. lol

[BoulderSooner]

Im sorry if your drive through my neighborhood is 30-60 seconds longer but I'd like to be able to walk safely to and from the shops and not have to play frogger.

23rd is NOT a neighborhood street .. it is a URBAN PRINCIPAL ARTERIAL ....

Urban Principal Arterial Street System
In every urban environment there exists a system of streets and highways which can be identified as unusually significant to its surrounding area in terms of the nature and composition of travel it serves. These facilities in smaller urban areas (less than 50,000) may be limited in number and extent. The importance may be primarily derived from the service provided to travel passing through the area. Larger urban areas may have the importance of service from rural oriented traffic, but equally or more important from service of major travel within urbanized areas. The following are the main characteristics for streets and highways of the urban principal arterial system.

Serves the major traffic movements within urbanized areas connecting central business districts, outlying residential areas, major intercity communities, and major suburban centers.
Serves a major portion of the trips entering and leaving the urban area, as well as the majority of the through traffic desiring to bypass the central city.
Provides continuity for all rural arterials which intercept the urban area.

as well as a SNOW route

[SagerMichael]

I would hardly consider it a speedy throughway right now. It’s really the only major road that runs uninterrupted from one end of the inner core to the other. It doesn’t have to be fast, it just needs to be wide enough to handle the volume. It sounds like it will remain 4 lanes so it should be fine.

As does Reno, 10th, 36th, S 29th. Several uninterrupted roads from Yukon to Choctaw

[BoulderSooner]

As does Reno, 10th, 36th, S 29th. Several uninterrupted roads from Yukon to Choctaw

10th does not ..

[josefromtulsa]

23rd is NOT a neighborhood street .. it is a URBAN PRINCIPAL ARTERIAL ....

Urban Principal Arterial Street System
In every urban environment there exists a system of streets and highways which can be identified as unusually significant to its surrounding area in terms of the nature and composition of travel it serves. These facilities in smaller urban areas (less than 50,000) may be limited in number and extent. The importance may be primarily derived from the service provided to travel passing through the area. Larger urban areas may have the importance of service from rural oriented traffic, but equally or more important from service of major travel within urbanized areas. The following are the main characteristics for streets and highways of the urban principal arterial system.

Serves the major traffic movements within urbanized areas connecting central business districts, outlying residential areas, major intercity communities, and major suburban centers.
Serves a major portion of the trips entering and leaving the urban area, as well as the majority of the through traffic desiring to bypass the central city.
Provides continuity for all rural arterials which intercept the urban area.

as well as a SNOW route

Those functional classifications doesn't mean its required to be 4 lanes or any sort of configuration. And no one claimed it be a neighborhood street, but it is a road that bisects the neighborhood. And I think snowplows can still go down 2 lane roads...

[PhiAlpha]

The traffic levels are only half the maximum before FHWA recommends against road diets.

From FHWA: A Road Diet can be a low-cost safety solution when planned in conjunction with a simple pavement overlay, and the reconfiguration can be accomplished at no additional cost. Typically, a Road Diet is implemented on a roadway with a current and future average daily traffic of 25,000 or less. Sourcehttp://https://highways.dot.gov/safe...econfiguration



Im sorry if your drive through my neighborhood is 30-60 seconds longer but I'd like to be able to walk safely to and from the shops and not have to play frogger.

what the F are you talking about? It’s a commercial street. Also I Iived in Mesta Park for nearly a decade and still live in “your neighborhood” if it includes 23rd st.

And you don’t have to play frogger if you don’t jay walk…plenty of cross walks that have always worked just fine for me when I’ve needed to cross 23rd to get to shops or restaurants on the other side.

But at any rate, your whole rant is pointless. They aren’t narrowing the street to two lanes probably due to how stupid of an idea that would be for 23rd.

[PhiAlpha]

Those functional classifications doesn't mean its required to be 4 lanes or any sort of configuration. And no one claimed it be a neighborhood street, but it is a road that bisects the neighborhood. And I think snowplows can still go down 2 lane roads...

it is going to be 4 lanes after they redo it anyway so the point is moot.

[PhiAlpha]

As does Reno, 10th, 36th, S 29th. Several uninterrupted roads from Yukon to Choctaw

I really meant the northern part of the inner core. 36th isn’t really a major road. It narrows to two lanes and is essentially a neighborhood street from Classen to May. 23rd is the only street on the north side of the core that is 4 lanes from I-35 to I-44.

[josefromtulsa]

what the F are you talking about? It’s a commercial street. Also I Iived in Mesta Park for nearly a decade and still live in “your neighborhood” if it includes 23rd st.

And you don’t have to play frogger if you don’t jay walk…plenty of cross walks that have always worked just fine for me when I’ve needed to cross 23rd to get to shops or restaurants on the other side.

But at any rate, your whole rant is pointless. They aren’t narrowing the street to two lanes probably due to how stupid of an idea that would be for 23rd.

Im sorry the thought of reduced traffic, noise, pollution, and safer conditions for children and the elderly is detrimental to your emotional health. In conversing with the project engineer he had wanted to do a 2-way with turn lane but it was too “stupid” as you say for many of the business owners on 23rd.

Oklahoma is always behind the times in the best urbanism practices and this is no different. Maybe the 2050 rebuild will finally be done right.

[PhiAlpha]

Im sorry the thought of reduced traffic, noise, pollution, and safer conditions for children and the elderly is detrimental to your emotional health. In conversing with the project engineer he had wanted to do a 2-way with turn lane but it was too “stupid” as you say for many of the business owners on 23rd.

Oklahoma is always behind the times in the best urbanism practices and this is no different. Maybe the 2050 rebuild will finally be done right.

Reducing 13th street to 2 lanes was a good idea. Reducing 10th st to 2 lanes in midtown was a good idea. Reducing Classen from 6 lanes to 4 may have been a good idea but time will tell. Reducing all the roads downtown to two lanes via project 180 was a good idea. Blindly applying “urbanism practices” to literally every part of the city is stupid. You can say it as many ways as you would like but reducing 23rd to 2 lanes would be stupid. Clearly the city agreed that it was a stupid idea. If you wanted that kind of urban corridor in your neighborhood, you could’ve chosen the Paseo, Plaza, midtown, western or any number of areas that aren’t as heavily trafficked.

Using Tulsa as an example, 23rd is almost like a slightly more spread out Brookside. Brookside is pretty pedestrian friendly and it is set up like 23rd will be after they finish with it (4 lanes with no median, wider sidewalks and several well defined crossing areas. The city is doing this the right way despite whatever weird urbanism extremist ax you have to grind.

[Mississippi Blues]

Im sorry the thought of reduced traffic, noise, pollution, and safer conditions for children and the elderly is detrimental to your emotional health. In conversing with the project engineer he had wanted to do a 2-way with turn lane but it was too “stupid” as you say for many of the business owners on 23rd.

Oklahoma is always behind the times in the best urbanism practices and this is no different. Maybe the 2050 rebuild will finally be done right.

Yeah, if there were an ideal stretch in all the city for a road diet, it’d be this. I’m okay with incremental progress so even if this revision isn’t the greatest, I find it encouraging that there’s at least an emphasis on improving the sidewalks.

In the PNW, there’s streets much less “urban” or walkable that don’t even have a turn lane (i.e. Alberta St and Mississippi Ave in Portland) but drivers figure it out and as a result are much more mindful of those who aren’t driving, if by no other reason than they have time to react. You still get people that act like it’s a burden to drive slower than 35 mph, but people adapt fairly easily and it’s not as dire or detrimental to one’s sanity as some are afraid it is.

[HOT ROD]

remember guys, can't have any dissenting opinion here on OKCTalk. Must align with certain folks' view or else your 'rant' is not welcome.

[Jake]

Im sorry the thought of reduced traffic, noise, pollution, and safer conditions for children and the elderly is detrimental to your emotional health. In conversing with the project engineer he had wanted to do a 2-way with turn lane but it was too “stupid” as you say for many of the business owners on 23rd.

Oklahoma is always behind the times in the best urbanism practices and this is no different. Maybe the 2050 rebuild will finally be done right.

*2500

[PhiAlpha]

remember guys, can't have any dissenting opinion here on OKCTalk. Must align with certain folks' view or else your 'rant' is not welcome.

Your rants are not FAA approved.

[OkieBerto]

remember guys, can't have any dissenting opinion here on OKCTalk. Must align with certain folks' view or else your 'rant' is not welcome.

I feel bad for enjoying the rants too much. Haha!

[Qwo]

Using Tulsa as an example, 23rd is almost like a slightly more spread out Brookside. Brookside is pretty pedestrian friendly and it is set up like 23rd will be after they finish with it (4 lanes with no median, wider sidewalks and several well defined crossing areas. The city is doing this the right way despite whatever weird urbanism extremist ax you have to grind.

Brookside in Tulsa is a great example of a street that tries and fails to be pleasant for both cars and pedestrians at the same time. I don't particuarly enjoy driving or walking down streets littered with unsignalized crossings and frequent curb cuts. "Weird urbanism extremist ax" is inflammatory in the face of modest suggestions. No one is trying to ban cars on 23rd st, no one is trying to reduce cross-streets, no one is taking away parking. I would suggest widening your reference to outside of OK, where we are not exactly known for our pedestrian-friendly street design and vibrant urban shopping districts . Better things are in fact possible here!

[PhiAlpha]

Brookside in Tulsa is a great example of a street that tries and fails to be pleasant for both cars and pedestrians at the same time. I don't particuarly enjoy driving or walking down streets littered with unsignalized crossings and frequent curb cuts. "Weird urbanism extremist ax" is inflammatory in the face of modest suggestions. No one is trying to ban cars on 23rd st, no one is trying to reduce cross-streets, no one is taking away parking. I would suggest widening your reference to outside of OK, where we are not exactly known for our pedestrian-friendly street design and vibrant urban shopping districts . Better things are in fact possible here!

You act like I didn’t just reference like 4-5 other examples of where I thought lane reductions were a good idea in the paragraph prior to the one you quoted...that is what I mean by urbanism extremist…we should just reduce every single road in the city to two lanes, right?

I don’t have to expand my reference to outside of ok…plenty of districts have done it well in OKC alone…just on much less busy streets. Just fully disagree with any solution reducing 23rd to two lanes which is not a modest suggestion to anyone who uses it daily. There are no other four lane roads running all the way across the north part of the urban core. I don’t think it should be 2 lanes just like I don’t think 16th should be 4 lanes. Disagree with your feelings about Brookside but you could get away with narrowing it with both riverside and Lewis running north to south fairly nearby though I doubt they ever do it.

Though again, the point is moot because they aren’t doing reducing it to 2 lanes and are highly unlikely to do so in the future.