First National Center

[hoya]

Pete is right. The actual square footage of FNC, in terms of modern usable office space, is much lower than its height would lead you to believe.

[Pete]

Look no further than City Place directly to the north. Very similar building and height and despite extensive renovations they can only accommodate small businesses and their vacancy rate has been relatively high over the years.


I'm not saying I think FNC will be scraped, but it would certainly be more profitable to demolish and start over than to renovate; and that is almost always the case with any building built before 1950.

And that "functionally obsolescent" argument has been accepted as a good enough reason for previous OKC demolitions.

[yukong]

Is that the Grand Banking Hall in the Riverwind Commercial? It sure looks like it to me. I wish more people knew that the true grandeur of the banking hall.

[Bob Loblaw]

Is that the Grand Banking Hall in the Riverwind Commercial? It sure looks like it to me. I wish more people knew that the true grandeur of the banking hall.

That's it for sure - wonder how many dim bulbs walk into Riverwind looking for the old-time bank teller windows, the incredible marble, the vaulted ceiling, the impressions from customer's feet in the floor in front of the teller windows, etc.

Bob

[yukong]

I thought so. And yes I agree that many who have never been to Riverwind may think..."wow, what a majestic place."

That hall would sure make a great lobby for an upscale hotel.

[mugofbeer]

I have to disagree with some of you who have such a negative viewpoint. I just don't think there is any way in h*** the citizens of OKC would allow the FNB tower to be demolished. If brought out the right way, I think the citizens would strongly support a partnership such as with the Skirvin could be undertaken.

[Pete]

I have to disagree with some of you who have such a negative viewpoint. I just don't think there is any way in h*** the citizens of OKC would allow the FNB tower to be demolished. If brought out the right way, I think the citizens would strongly support a partnership such as with the Skirvin could be undertaken.

I think that is all correct.

On the other hand, it's better to be on your toes than just assume everything will be fine.

[hoya]

I'm wondering how many cities in the United States have a 1930s art deco hotel or residential tower that's 400+ feet high? I mean I'm sure New York and Chicago have a bunch, but other than those two cities, are there many cities that have something like that? If FNC is renovated the way we'd like it to be, it could be a very special amenity for the city, something that most cities don't have.

[KayneMo]

^ One city that immediately came to mind is Kansas City, MO. There are three towers over 400' tall built in the 1930s. Two are former office buildings and the other is KC City Hall. One of the former office buildings (909 Walnut, 1932, 470' tall) was converted into residential about 15 years ago and is the tallest residential tower in the Midwest outside of Chicago. The other former office building (KC Power and Light Building, 1931, 481' tall) will be redeveloped into residential starting this year.

[HOT ROD]

I thought City Place was anchored by UMB Financial? They even have a few job openings at the moment; I checked recently out of curiosity of their OKC presence when I saw their commercial on TV. Also, doesn't City Place have the top 7 or so floors as Residential Penthouses?

I wouldn't call City Place as largely vacant if this is the case but your point about FNC is duly noted (just probably not the best comparison).

[Pete]

^

I didn't say City Place was 'largely vacant'. I said their vacancy rate has been relatively high over the years.

It's been running about 15-20% at a time where downtown vacancy is at an all-time low.

And that's because no matter how much remodeling, the floor plates are small and chopped up; thus the comparison to FNC.

[bchris02]

I'm wondering how many cities in the United States have a 1930s art deco hotel or residential tower that's 400+ feet high? I mean I'm sure New York and Chicago have a bunch, but other than those two cities, are there many cities that have something like that? If FNC is renovated the way we'd like it to be, it could be a very special amenity for the city, something that most cities don't have.

I agree. If FNC was renovated into a quality hotel/residential, it would be something that few cities the size and age of OKC have. That could be very special and something that I hope eventually happens.

[TheTravellers]

I'm wondering how many cities in the United States have a 1930s art deco hotel or residential tower that's 400+ feet high? I mean I'm sure New York and Chicago have a bunch, but other than those two cities, are there many cities that have something like that? If FNC is renovated the way we'd like it to be, it could be a very special amenity for the city, something that most cities don't have.

Magnolia Hotel in Dallas is 399 ft, Adolphus Hotel in Dallas is 312 ft (so it's kinda close), but they were built in the 1910s-20s.

[HOT ROD]

^

I didn't say City Place was 'largely vacant'. I said their vacancy rate has been relatively high over the years.

It's been running about 15-20% at a time where downtown vacancy is at an all-time low.

And that's because no matter how much remodeling, the floor plates are small and chopped up; thus the comparison to FNC.

I stand corrected, please accept apologies Pete.

[HOT ROD]

If residential + hotel redevelopment does proceed (or should I say 'when'?), OKC would definitely have a feather in its cap as our FNC would be taller than most similar projects at 468 feet.

I hope all of this can get resolved soon and redevelopment happens shortly. I would be all in-favor of demolition of the E and C buildings as long as the new garage incorporated (and maybe expanded) existing retail fronting Park Avenue with vehicle access to the garage either from the alley or 'gasp' creatively from Broadway. Perhaps the upper floor or two of the new garage could be developed as modern expansion for the hotel/residential giving a modern pool, restaurant, and amenities that multi-use hotel/residential projects have.

Please work it out folks!!

[Jim Kyle]

I would be all in-favor of demolition of the E and C buildings as long as the new garage incorporated (and maybe expanded) existing retail fronting Park Avenue with vehicle access to the garage either from the alley or 'gasp' creatively from Broadway.

Way back when, before the CBD got razed, FNC had an attached parking facility that was, I believe, the first in the city to use elevators for placing the vehicles. The entrance/exit was on Main Street, with an underground drive-thru banking facility below. I used to make a trip through the drive-thru every week during the summer of 1963 since my employer at the time did direct deposit of my pay to an account at FNB. I would drive through, withdraw it all since the account allowed only one no-fee transaction per week, and take the cash home.

At street level, only the entrance and exit doors were visible. Retail occupied the space between them.

That parking garage was built, as I recall, around 1957 or 58; the late Murray Looney (father of one of my closest friends in those years) was the engineer in charge for Otis Elevator Company and oversaw both the construction and maintenance of the system. This was one of the first such installations west of the Mississippi, and definitely the first in the state. Another was later built on Sheridan at the site of the old Interurban Terminal. Both structures succumbed to Urban Renewal, of course.

[turnpup]

Funny, Jim Kyle, just last night my husband and I were talking about this very garage. He was telling me how it had an elevator for the cars, as opposed to the Motor Hotel on Hudson where you'd drive and circle your way up to park.

Here's a link to the Retro Metro OKC First National Center collection. There's a file specifically for the garage with several pictures.

Album 4 « Gallery 21 « First National Center Collection Photos | Retro Metro OKC

[Kemotblue]

I visited the building one weekday afternoon early December and I wasn't the only one in the building exploring. I was amazed at what a historic treasure this building is to Oklahoma. There was 3 young millennials exploring the building. one of the young men in that group was playing the piano and the only female in the group was belting out a enchanting song that just was acoustically pleasing to the ears. I looked around the great banking hall and was amazed at the architecture and art inside the great hall. The Landrun paintings and Louisiana Purchase paintings depicting the start of Oklahoma displayed at the ends of the great hall. The tower part of the complex would make a stunning lobby for a boutique hotel/residence. The place is a true historic jewel of downtown OKC.

[bluedogok]

I'm wondering how many cities in the United States have a 1930s art deco hotel or residential tower that's 400+ feet high? I mean I'm sure New York and Chicago have a bunch, but other than those two cities, are there many cities that have something like that? If FNC is renovated the way we'd like it to be, it could be a very special amenity for the city, something that most cities don't have.

There are several old office towers here in Downtown Denver that have been renovated into hotels like the Magnolia and another one completed or close to completion.

[mugofbeer]

There are several old office towers here in Downtown Denver that have been renovated into hotels like the Magnolia and another one completed or close to completion.

Denver's downtown is truly special. Preservation and plenty of activity. Though there is suburban office development, I see less here than in comparable cities in the west. I think this may be one reason downtown Denver has been so successful. For the 20 - 30 somethings, downtown and surrounding areas definitely the place to live and to be.

[UnFrSaKn]

Not to get off topic but I made a thread about Denver and share some photos and video I did the times I have been there.

http://www.okctalk.com/other-communi...96-denver.html

[shawnw]

But if Channel 4 did a story on the 10:00 news about how he drove out all his tenants and purposefully let his historic buildings deteriorate for years so that there'd be no resistance, you can bet there would be a lot more phone calls to the city council about this issue.

Channel 4 _DID_ do a story (reporter was Lacy Lett), but it didn't take the angle you propose. It was the basic facts. Story was fine for what it was but I didn't think the video they used really fit.

[warreng88]

From the Journal Record:

Waiting for word: Ground-floor retail tenants at First National Center not sure of status

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record January 5, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Tinder Box’s owners haven’t heard from their landlords at the First National Center in the last few weeks. Linda and Wayne Castle have been in the building for 26 years, but their lease is set to expire this fall.

“A lot of people are asking us what we’re going to do,” Linda Castle said.

She said she found it interesting that there were no Christmas decorations at the building this year.

“We’re just waiting to see what happens,” Wayne Castle said.

Recent media reports have said that all tenants in First National are being told leases will not be renewed because of the building’s pending sale.

Matthew Smith, an attorney for building owner Joshua Paradise Holdings LLC, confirmed that upper-floor office tenants’ leases are not being renewed, but the situation wasn’t the same for the first-floor tenants. Smith works for Hiersche Law Firm, which lists Oklahoma Publishing Co. as a client.

“Since they’re established tenants, we are working with potential buyers and bouncing things off them on how we want to proceed with (the retailers) and those leases,” Smith said.

He said businesses that need to renew their leases are being issued six-month contracts so a new owner will not be committed to tenants for a long term.

Cafe 7 co-owner J. Mays said the restaurant plans to keep serving the hot soup and sandwiches downtown has grown to love. In 2014, the cafe added a door facing Park Avenue and patio seating. It has been at the corner of N. Robinson and Park avenues for three years.

Mays said his business manager told him it’s business as usual for now. He did not know when the restaurant’s lease expires.

Feed the Children, which operates the Story of Hope store, hasn’t made any plans to leave the building.

“Currently, Feed the Children is unaware of any lease changes for the Story of Hope retail store,” Kim Baich, Feed the Children chief communications and brand officer, wrote in an email. “Our lease is intact and we plan to continue operating the store.”

Baich did not say when her lease is up.

Mack Scherler, owner of the Medicine Cabinet pharmacy, said he has briefly heard from the property manager. His lease expired Dec. 31, and he was given a six-month renewal option.

“I can’t find a place in six months,” he said.

He asked for a 10-month lease and hasn’t heard if that was accepted.

CBRE|Oklahoma Vice President Amy Dunn said the building’s sale is on track to close once a lien filing is dismissed. The lien was placed on the property by New York resident Howard Abselet. He claims he is owed $6 million by former building owner Aaron Yashouafar. Ownership group Joshua Paradise Holdings LLC has ties to Yoel, Leon and John Neman, who run Neman Brothers & Associates, a textile company with offices in Los Angeles and New York.

[Pete]

CBRE|Oklahoma Vice President Amy Dunn said the building’s sale is on track to close once a lien filing is dismissed.

This is good news and if that issue can be resolved, hopefully everything will start to move forward again.

[Bullbear]

This is good news and if that issue can be resolved, hopefully everything will start to move forward again.

Great news I hope it works out. Of all the projects announced this is by far the one I would most hate to see fall apart.