Ideas 4 MAPS

[Urban Pioneer]

Uprooting neighborhood parks has always been a 'no no' with residents. Our Latino population isn't limited to the south-side or Capitol Hill area.

Bob Funk Jr. nor anyone else that I have heard has suggested that these are the reasons why Wiley Post might not be optimal. They have regularly referred to “access issues”. Again, I would argue that Robinson and Walker are two significant multi-lane major street spines that frame this location and connecting into the new OKC Boulevard. This excuse smells. It’s a canard.

[jdg78]

The whole point of putting the stadium in South OKC particularly south of the river is to SPUR DEVELOPMENT. We need to give Capitol Hill, Stockyards and the Farmers Market a giant shot in the arm with public investment. Much in the same way NE OKC is benefiting from the Innovation District and Adventure District. Very simple concept. See Maps 1 & 3. Canal, ballpark, streetcar, library, the Peake, Central Park, convention center and whitewater facility have all transformed there immediate areas and have caused billions of additional private investment.

[jdg78]

Maps 1&3 have not impacted inner city south side. The area is in desperate need of infrastructure (besides 5 lane roads) and investment.

The trendy thing to do is to champion NE OKC to get likes on social media and obtain credibility for caring. However, an equally marginalized minority community in South OKC sets waiting and ignored.

There is much work to do in NE OKC and that work should and will continue, but South OKC needs capital investment like the innovation district and adventure district.

We need to give people a reason to come to INNER CITY SOUTHSIDE.

[Urban Pioneer]

I guess I was hopeful that this location was their magic hat trick to get more of the public support this proposal. It adds a great deal of credibility to proactive propose the soccer stadium to be built in an underserved area needing infill and connection to the success underway due north.

To not propose a solid location creates ambiguity about who and how landowners or developers might benefit without meaningful public discourse ahead of the vote.

After working with city government for twenty years, hearing that consultants will decide this stuff at a later date gets old. How about we rely on the uniquely qualified OKC Planning Department that we already pay for?

[Pete]

This is what Bob Funk Jr. said about a location in Lackmeyer's chat this week:
https://oklahoman.com/article/563847...soccer-stadium

Obviously the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill property, we thought that would be a good location three years ago. We also think Wheeler Park is a good location. I like the (recently cleared) Exchange site south of Farmers Public Market. It's only seven acres. I like Strawberry Fields west of Scissortail Park if we could ever find a way to make it work.

We also looked at Wiley Post Park but access is the biggest issue there.

Wiley Post Park is the only location that would be south of the river and it sounds like he is not high on it.

Also, I personally don't like the idea of taking a big public park (like Wheeler or Wiley Post) and building a huge stadium complex with loads of surface parking, almost exclusively for the use of private business (the Energy).

And reminder the city just completely cut off Exchange from the Western and Reno Interchange at a time when property directly adjacent is being considered for a large pro sports complex.

[Urban Pioneer]

Also, I personally don't like the idea of taking a big public park (like Wheeler or Wiley Post) and building a huge stadium complex with loads of surface parking, almost exclusively for the use of private business (the Energy).

I think that is totally fair and reasonable. For me personally, I just want to see us invest down there in a substantial way. I don't own property or have any financial interest down there but traveling to work on the Yale Theatre every week reinforces the opportunity to me that is Capitol Hill.

They already had a significant natural barrier with the Oklahoma River. ODOT forced us to absorb the new semi-sunken I-40 Crosstown. Those physical barriers mean that some significant developmental tissue is required to draw people south.

I championed the idea for streetcar extension on Robinson but JoBeth isn't a fan of more investment in streetcar system considering the investment that truly does need to take place in the bus system. The cost ($80 - $110 million) made it too expensive to be considered in this MAPS with all of the other projects that they want to get done.

If we are not going to make a major MAPS 4 investment in the southside but may be forced to eat this stadium, where do you think it should go then?

[Pete]

^

It should go to one of the non-park sites.

The Exchange is interesting because it would help draw people to Farmers Market and the area west of Strawberry Fields as well as the Stockyards.

When you are asking for millions in public money, then the location should be chosen that is best for the city, not just what the owner/sponsor wants. This is why I was very happy with the convention center going to the area next to Scissortail Park, as that was undoubtedly the best way to jump-start that area and leverage the massive amount the city is already spending down there. Of course the CVB wanted the site south of the Myriad Gardens but IMO that was never in the city's best, long-term interest.

In any case, I would absolutely not vote for any MAPS ballot that includes this stadium without a location identified with full and financial costs identified in advance. Even with the convention center, we spent at least double what was pitched on the ballot for all the "must-haves" that came after the vote.

[Urban Pioneer]

BTW, I have met Bob Funk Jr. and he is one of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. I'm definitely personally not against the stadium or necessarily more sports investment. At least I think that it is definitely a project worth considering and hearing out in the public process. If we're going to build this facility then ideally it would be located somewhere that the city already owns to reduce cost and have the greatest positive impact on its surroundings. Wiley Post to me seems ideal because of the massive park we are finishing to the north and the abundance of river trails and parks to east and west. Losing a major park nearly anywhere else might have negative impacts. Does this one?

[SouthSide]

The city of okc has studiously avoided investing in or encouraging investing in south okc. This has always been the case even when it was majority "white" in all areas. Whether any or all South OKCs has minority community, as currently defined, should not matter. MAPS was sold that the signature projects would be spread throughout the city which hasn't been the reality. The city's argument seems to be well we decided years ago to build all the signature projects north so we have to continue to do so.

[Urban Pioneer]

This is why I was very happy with the convention center going to the area next to Scissortail Park, as that was undoubtedly the best way to jump-start that area and leverage the massive amount the city is already spending down there. Of course the CVB wanted the site south of the Myriad Gardens but IMO that was never in the city's best, long-term interest.

One of the coolest things about the ultimate location that was chosen is that it was the site that our City Planner Russell Claus actually picked out as part of his original "Core to Shore" Master Plan. The Convention Center Subcommittee tried to force that other location. It's gratifying to see Russell's original ideas come to fruition. That history is a big reason that I believe we could simply ask our Planning Department where this ought to go and get the debate out of the way. That would also help us establish firm costs.

[Laramie]

If not the Producers COOP Mill site (IMO) would be the most costly land option, what about the old air park where the Wheeler Development is under construction. It's south of the river, near the interstate, Ferris Wheel, great skyline view and close enough to Bricktown, Midtown & Stockyards; bus shuttle service could be used to move fans (park & ride).

How much acreage is on that parcel--enough left for a planned stadium development on the southside that could spur more develop south, or bring the streetcar further down Western to Capitol Hill Commerce & 25th Street--potential for a restaurant, entertain district on the southside. You think the Humphreys (Kirk, Grant & Blair) would buy into a stadium development?

https://www.google.com/search?biw=15...39.-eqGy0m4OIE

Pete, Urban Pioneer & jdg78, I frequent that area on my bike from Western-Exchange Avenues near the Boadman Warehouse are you all familiar with that route.

[David]

One of the coolest things about the ultimate location that was chosen is that it was the site that our City Planner Russell Claus actually picked out as part of his original "Core to Shore" Master Plan. The Convention Center Subcommittee tried to force that other location. It's gratifying to see Russell's original ideas come to fruition. That history is a big reason that I believe we could simply ask our Planning Department where this ought to go and get the debate out of the way. That would also help us establish firm costs.

But if we don't have a study the consultants don't get paid!

[Urban Pioneer]

but if we don't have a study the consultants don't get paid!

lolz

[Pete]

Wiley Post to me seems ideal because of the massive park we are finishing to the north and the abundance of river trails and parks to east and west. Losing a major park nearly anywhere else might have negative impacts. Does this one?

We've had this debate before when the rumors were swirling about Wheeler Park.

People that post here generally have no idea how much these parks (especially Wiley Post) is used by the local community. We all have birthday parties for kids a some big, rented facility, host anniversaries at restaurants and most have large homes and backyards.

Go to one of these parks any weekend and you'll see tons of families using them for all these reasons, while the kids are running around and playing on the equipment. I back up to a city park and it's always busy with these types of gatherings, and often the large groups stay almost all day.

IMO you would not be helping the community to the south of the river by taking away that pretty, highly-used park so some rich guys can get a soccer stadium with tons of surface parking.

[Urban Pioneer]

We've had this debate before when the rumors were swirling about Wheeler Park.

People that post here generally have no idea how much these parks (especially Wiley Post) is used by the local community. We all have birthday parties for kids a some big, rented facility, host anniversaries at restaurants and most have large homes and backyards.

Go to one of these parks any weekend and you'll see tons of families using them for all these reasons, while the kids are running around and playing on the equipment. I back up to a city park and it's always busy with these types of gatherings, and often the large groups stay almost all day.

I'm not debating that. I have seen this happening at Wiley Post with my own eyes. I'm just stating that we're about to complete a $140 million park just due north, they relocated the Manuel Perez park and added new facilities, and there is an abundance of river frontage that will remain parkland. One has to wonder what sort of continued use Wiley Post will attract with all of these amenities. Farmer's exchange sounds like a great idea but what would be the land acquisition costs of such an endeavor. Is that factored into their lowball $40 million for the stadium budget?

[Pete]

^

Land acquisition cost was not factored into the proposal they made to city council, which is the only budget I've seen.

And that concerns me very much, because it's going to be a big chunk no matter where it goes. There is also the matter of parking, not only the cost but paving some huge adjacent area.


And I don't like this idea of since we are building a new park, we can just snatch an existing one. That was never part of the deal and the need for recreation in this community (vs. sitting our your arse and drinking while watching others recreate) is vital.

[Urban Pioneer]

And I don't like this idea of since we are building a new park, we can just snatch an existing one. That was never part of the deal and the need for recreation in this community (vs. sitting our your arse and drinking while watching others recreate) is vital.

As someone who is physically active on a daily basis and enjoys parks I value that argument. I guess Capitol Hill you might get your investments in MAPS 5.

[Pete]

^

IMO the best thing for that area would be BRT that could easily move people to and from the core north of the river and then some sort of seed money for improvements to the downtown CH district.

The city has already invested pretty heavily there, with the new library, senior center and OCCC.

[soonerguru]

I'm not for a soccer stadium, but I'm not 100% against it either, as long as it's done right.

I think we need to be realistic about the benefits of a place like this. The Energy is real small potatoes. It doesn't matter if they leave. OKC in 2020 is not OKC in 1990. When we built the Bricktown Ballpark, minor league baseball was our only real sports attraction. I went to one of the last games at All Sports Stadium, and boy it was a dump. Everybody knew we needed to replace it. The first MAPS was a gamble, but the people of this city knew we had to do something, we had to take a chance.

Today we are much better off. We've got an NBA team, which was basically unimaginable 30 years ago. The only sports league bigger than that is the NFL. Minor league soccer is nice, I guess, but it doesn't come within a thousand miles of the NBA. That doesn't mean we shouldn't build the stadium, but we have to keep it in perspective. This is absolutely not any kind of economic driver. It's purely a quality of life program. If you stick the stadium south of the river, on city owned land, and bill it as investment in a heavily Hispanic community, that could work. Treat it basically like a city park. The Energy could play there (they'd have to pay, of course), but you could also allow youth leagues to play there, and host community events, and things like that. Make it so it could be expanded into an MLS stadium if everything falls the right way, but that shouldn't be the selling point.

Excellent post! To your point about "small potatoes" I mentioned to my hairdresser that the Energy threatened to leave OKC if they don't get MAPS money, to which she replied, "Who are the Energy?" I'm like, "Our minor league soccer team." And she says, "We have a soccer team?" LOL. And no, she is not dumb and reads and keeps up.

[jdg78]

Would it be feasible to integrate the stadium into the lower park that has yet to be completed? We already own the land.

[Laramie]

You mentioned BRT (shuttle), great idea if you go south.

Any land available where the Blessed Stanley Rother Shine & Basilica will begin ground breaking in November--South 89th & Interstate 35, abundance of restaurants near the area, 74th - 89th--not familiar with that area's land availability: https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1434...ahoma-City-OK/ ...close to Moore & Norman.

[Pete]

Would it be feasible to integrate the stadium into the lower park that has yet to be completed? We already own the land.

Or the land we don't own to the west.

Could actually integrate the stadium with the park and the proposed playfields, plus add some more.

[jdg78]

Pete - I think that is the solution. Land is cleared and the stadium would compliment the park and it is almost a blank slate on both side of Robinson. The lower park would be activated very quickly with that stadium. Perhaps we could change the plan for the lower park to incorporate more youth fields and fan amenities.

[Laramie]

Pete - I think that is the solution. Land is cleared and the stadium would compliment the park and it is almost a blank slate on both side of Robinson. The lower park would be activated very quickly with that stadium. Perhaps we could change the plan for the lower park to incorporate more youth fields and fan amenities.

30 ares in the lower Scissortail Park extension, sounds doable. Wiley Post & Wheeler parks sit across the river to the south--it wouldn't harm either of those parks. There are some surface parking already established in WP & Wheeler parks. Parking also available at the Convention Center Complex.BRT shuttle services from Midtown, Bricktown & Stockyard City on game or event days.

Skydance Stadium

Sounds great. Now let's brainstorm about possible obstacles...

1. Would need to reinforce Skydance Bridge, potential foot traffic mecca.

[Pete]

Pete - I think that is the solution. Land is cleared and the stadium would compliment the park and it is almost a blank slate on both side of Robinson. The lower park would be activated very quickly with that stadium. Perhaps we could change the plan for the lower park to incorporate more youth fields and fan amenities.

Keep in mind the city doesn't own much of that land. They would have to buy it all, parcel by parcel, which would be expensive and take a long time.

Of course, we could have been doing that 10 years ago, as the park footprint has been settled for a long time.