Penn Square Mall

[Pete]

When was the last time you went to Penn Square and the parking lot was absolutely packed on a Saturday (and it wasn't Christmas)? That's extremely telling folks. Because that used to be every weekend.

Like every single Saturday.

I live nearby and see it for myself and go to the mall frequently.

[Rover]

I go there to walk in bad weather and it is almost always busy. Plus, like Pete, I live nearby and can attest that the lot is usually pretty full except for the northeastern most parts. I think the lack of more cars there is more of a testament to how bad Macy’s is these days than the mall as a whole.

[Canoe]

I go there to walk in bad weather and it is almost always busy. Plus, like Pete, I live nearby and can attest that the lot is usually pretty full except for the northeastern most parts. I think the lack of more cars there is more of a testament to how bad Macy’s is these days than the mall as a whole.

Have you seen their "backstage" section. It is worse than Ross.

[Rover]

Have you seen their "backstage" section. It is worse than Ross.

Macy’s there is just a pit and their selections are not good.. I quit going a long time ago.

[BoulderSooner]

There have not been widespread renovations to the public areas in 20 years. But I also feel like they are needed..

except for the 87 million in 2013 ..

[jedicurt]

When was the last time you went to Penn Square and the parking lot was absolutely packed on a Saturday (and it wasn't Christmas)? That's extremely telling folks. Because that used to be every weekend.

i think the real question is when is the last time you have been to the mall on a saturday? because the last few times i was there (all well before thanksgiving) it was usually like 80-90% full on those saturdays in the middle of the day.

[PhiAlpha]

I enjoy going and walking around Penn Square, the only good walkable retail in OKC . Usually pay to get beat up at Oriental Chi. Eat at Pepperoni Grill a lot too. Occasionally go to the AMC. It's a nice place, I really don't think it seems out of date or in need of major improvements at all

OMG! Don't get shot!!!!

*heavy sarcasm*

[borchard]

Macy’s there is just a pit and their selections are not good.. I quit going a long time ago.

Macy's is so very bad here. And it just makes it worse if you've been to Macy's in NorthPark Mall in Dallas. It's VERY good. That anchor spot has been (4) different things since I've been here. (Macy's John A. Brown, Sanger Harris, Foley's)

[Pete]

North Park is a huge exception. Most Macy's stores look like the one in Penn Square. The JC Penney is just as bad... Department stores are dying off fast.

It won't be long before that store closes for good, which will not help the mall.

[Rover]

Macy's is so very bad here. And it just makes it worse if you've been to Macy's in NorthPark Mall in Dallas. It's VERY good. That anchor spot has been (4) different things since I've been here. (Macy's John A. Brown, Sanger Harris, Foley's)

Are you talking about NP in Dallas being 4 things? John A Brown OKC was where Dillards womens is in the SW corner (Browns was bought by Dillards). Foleys was Crossroads wasn't it? Was Sanger Harris where Penny's is now? It was an expansion when their parent company bought the mall, IIRC.

[progressiveboy]

The mall is starting to show it's age. The parking lots are not in the best of shape and signs of trash. I heard the mall continues to have issues with water line pipes busting and the aging infrastructure is taking it's toll. I was in PSM going to certain stores and it smelled like back up sewage. Yikes!. I heard that PSM is on leased land owned by the Ben Wileman companies ? Is this correct? PSM is not a bad mall, however it does need a makeover. After living in Dallas for 25 years, I am a bit spoiled with nice shopping malls like Northpark, Galleria etc.. It remains to be seen if PSM puts in the needed improvements on this property?

[Pete]

^

Comparing PSM to the very best malls in the 4th largest metro area in the U.S. is ridiculous. DFW has plenty of dead/crappy malls too.

Try comparing to malls in Tulsa, Wichita, Little Rock, San Antonio, Milwaukee, etc.

[Grant]

I know it's been said before, but it's a real shame Simon couldn't have pushed out Penneys in favor of Von Maur 10 years back. Seems like that would've been mutually beneficial for both Von Maur and Penn Square.

[Rover]

To the point about Macy's and department stores:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/18/busin...res/index.html

[Shortsyeararound]

The malls here are fine and to compare them specifically to North Park/Dallas Galleria/Houston Galleria/Baybrook/Domain, etc in Texas is ridiculous. Those are “A” tier malls/destination malls. Now does Penn and Quail both have stores that the other doesn’t (H&M, Urban Outfitters, Apple, more), of course. Does Texas have even more that we don’t have, of course. Do we see more mom/pop in malls these days, of course.
On a side note - I have worked in at Penn, Quail, Norman, and Crossroads and felt safe in all of them. They have all had some issues, but that stuff happens everywhere. On a side, side note - stores in Penn that are at Quail are always higher volume.

[PhiAlpha]

Are you talking about NP in Dallas being 4 things? John A Brown OKC was where Dillards womens is in the SW corner (Browns was bought by Dillards). Foleys was Crossroads wasn't it? Was Sanger Harris where Penny's is now? It was an expansion when their parent company bought the mall, IIRC.

Foley's was in the macy's space at Penn Square at one time. There was also a Foley's at Quail. Sears was where Penny's is now (I think).

[Zorba]

Macy's is so very bad here. And it just makes it worse if you've been to Macy's in NorthPark Mall in Dallas. It's VERY good. That anchor spot has been (4) different things since I've been here. (Macy's John A. Brown, Sanger Harris, Foley's)

Macy's (i.e. Federated Department Stores) shot themselves in the foot slapping the Macy's brand on everything from the most upscale true Macy's to the most ran down Foley's. When I lived in Cincinnati 15 years ago there was a Macy's worse than the old one at Quail and one equivalent to the one at North Park like 10 miles apart. So you have no idea what you are going to get when you go to one. It'd be like Nordstrom's buying JCPenney and rebranding them to Nordstrom's.

[EtanEiko]

With the success of Lifetime Fitness at QSM, what are the chances when one of those major department stores vacate the mall they might consider putting one in PSM?

[Pete]

With the success of Lifetime Fitness at QSM, what are the chances when one of those major department stores vacate the mall they might consider putting one in PSM?

I don't think we'll see another LIfe Time in the OKC area but PSM is going to have to get creative when Macy's and Penneys both inevitably fail.

Both are already terrible but at least the space is occupied.

It's going to be an on-going battle between Penn Square, OAK and Classen Curve, although the mall will have some big spaces to accommodate tenants the other two can't.

[Pete]

One thing that could easily happen is that AMC could take one of the department stores and convert into a new, much bigger theater.

They've done this in other malls and the current theater is old and cramped with 10 smallish screens, yet does a good business. AMC Quail has 24 screens.

It seems OAK has given up on landing a theater, as I've seen a plan for Phase III that only includes restaurants and a live music venue. It seems Alamo has too many company-wide problems to follow through at Chisholm Creek.


BTW, I just noticed AMC has permanently closed "AMC Classic Crossroads".

[LocoAko]

The mall is starting to show it's age. The parking lots are not in the best of shape and signs of trash. I heard the mall continues to have issues with water line pipes busting and the aging infrastructure is taking it's toll. I was in PSM going to certain stores and it smelled like back up sewage. Yikes!.

I don't know if related, as I hardly go to the small (despite being nearby), but when I was last in Dillard's the last week of December they had all sorts of noisy ground fans set up along the back walls blowing on the carpets and appeared to be trying to get rid of moisture. It didn't reek of sewage, but it definitely gave us the impression something had happened.

That said, every time I do go to PSM I'm shocked at how crowded it is. I hardly ever go to the mall and sometimes forget how many people make it a destination seemingly every weekend. It may not be the same as its heydey, but compared to the malls in my hometown that are on their last legs, PSM seems quite strong.

[Pete]

Like many theaters, AMC has been moving to a dine-in model.

They recently opened this 12-screen dine-in concept in a Southern Californian mall after closing an older 16-screen theater in a dead mall less than a mile away.




https://variety.com/2022/film/news/a...rk-1235281748/

[The]

Penny’s future would be a lot brighter if they had 1) gotten Von Maur and LifeTime instead of Quail and 2) if they’d add some housing on the periphery.

[Shortsyeararound]

With Pottery Barn leaving PSM for Oak that is going to leave a large corner store and exposed exterior window empty on an entrance/exit side.

I would like to entertain the thought of PSM going back to an open air mall. The outlet has shown that it is viable in our market. I managed out there for 6 years and the weather was not a distraction like one would assume. Less people came to browse, but more people bought during those times= high conversion and high sales.

[Pete]

BTW, if we're going to compare Penn Square to other malls, let's start with those in Oklahoma:

Crossroads Mall
Shepherd Mall
Heritage Park Mall
Sooner Mall
French Market Mall
Century Center Mall
Northpark Mall
Shawnee Mall
Quail Springs Mall
Oakwood Mall (Enid)
Woodland Hills Mall
Eastland Mall
Promenade
Sheridan Village
William Center
Central Plaza Lawton


That's a ton (16) of dead or nearly dead enclosed shopping malls just within the state.

The only malls that are even close to Penn Square are Quail Springs and maybe Woodland Hills, and neither are nearly as robust.