OKC or TULSA? Which Metro Has The Most Long-Term Growth Potential?

[HOT ROD]

Is there really anybody rooting for Tulsa? Did anybody from Tulsa ever root for OKC, even today?

Dont they still lament OKC while admitting that the city has left Tulsa in the dust forever?

Why does OKC have to root for Tulsa? Why not root for OKC and prepare for battle with peer cities like KC, Denver, FTW, Portland, and Indy.

Leave the small time stuff behind, it's time to play with the big boys.

Should we root for Tulsa? Well, we should always support little sister in her battles against HER PEERS!

But I dont think OKC has to root for Tulsa just because OKC is progressing; in order for the State to be successful. There are many states which have one super economic center (which also happens to be the government centre). If anything, Tulsa has limited OKC's growth and potential - no offense to Tulsa but IT'S TIME TO SUPPORT OKC!

At least OKC doesn't treat Tulsa like how they treated OKC back in the 1970s. ..

[redland]

There is no reason that Oklahoma City and Tulsa can't both be major economic centers. Look to the south. Houston, Dallas, Ft. Worth, San Antonio, Austin are all thriving---and not at each other's expense. Of course there ares states with only one major metro area, but Oklahoma is already beyond that.
I have lived in both OKC and Tulsa, and I often feel that my favorite of the two is the one I happen to be in at the moment. I will say this about the attitude of the two cities. Tulsans in general (not everybody---there are exceptions) tend to disparage Oklahoma City, whereas OKC residents tend to speak favorably of Tulsa (again there are exceptions). Indeed Oklahoma City (perhaps because iit's the capital city, located at the geographical center of the state) thinks more in terms of the whole state whereas Tulsans are more insular in their attitude. But I say love them both and support them both!

[Moondog]

Where Tulsa has an advantage, right now, is to the east in Porter with the new Google facility. The technology corridor in the not so distant city, could fuel a huge new industrial base for Tulsa. Porter will have huge growth because of this business which will attract other similar high end technology businesses.

Few of these workers will live in Porter--it is too isolated and rural--but there are dozens of suburbs on the east and southeast side of Tulsa which will house these new workers. As a result, Tulsa could see the kind of development Austin Texas and numerous other regional technology hubs have had over the past decade.

Actually, its Pryor you're talking about, not Porter. (Sorry, had to correct you there.)

I've been to Porter. (It's claim to fame is its annual Peach festival...not a very tech-savvy place...lol) Pryor is directly east of Tulsa on Hwy 412. It is home to the state's largest industrial park, which is where Google is building their facility. It's roughly 30 miles from Tulsa, which is about the distance from the northern edge of Edmond to Norman, which isn't really that far.

[Moondog]

And oh, if you wanna brag about rivers, hills and trees, give NASHVILLE (another capital city) a call. I'm sure they're laugh at what Tulsa has.

It's times like these I wish Sequoyah did become a state and Oklahoma wouldn't have to deal with this Tulsa arrogance.

Well, Tulsa laughs at what OKC has... And OKC laughs at what Amarillo has... So forth... The whole OKC vs Tulsa debate is not only lame... it's really freakin' old! Who cares! Both cities suck in their own special ways.... But they're also nice in their own special ways... And the only people taking part in this "rivalry" are the ones on boards like this one. I've lived in both towns. Most people I knew in Tulsa never gave OKC a single thought and vice versa... I know of no "Tulsa arrogance." People there, like here, are only concerned about living their lives, doing their jobs, etc.

[TStheThird]

Since moving to Tulsa in 2004 from OKC, my parents have put up with weak attempts from Tulsans to bash OKC. They don't get on the message boards.

Well, Tulsa laughs at what OKC has... And OKC laughs at what Amarillo has... So forth...

That was a pretty weak jab. Thanks for the effort.

[soonerfan21]

I beg to differ on the comment regarding Tulsa people (not all, mind you) having an air of arrogance. I was at a statewide program of marketing people a couple years ago discussing economic development in both cities. Two of the panelists included a lady from the OKC Chamber and Roger Randle, former mayor of Tulsa. While Cynthia Reid from the OKC Chamber discussed relevant issues of MAPS, etc., Randle obviously could not compete with similar points. He said something to the effect. "Tulsa has always been the cultural capital of Oklahoma while Oklahoma City has been known the cowtown."

Yeah, he was not exactly a shining example for Tulsa's leadership . . .

[Doug Loudenback]

Actually, its Pryor you're talking about, not Porter. (Sorry, had to correct you there.)

I've been to Porter. (It's claim to fame is its annual Peach festival...not a very tech-savvy place...lol) Pryor is directly east of Tulsa on Hwy 412. It is home to the state's largest industrial park, which is where Google is building their facility. It's roughly 30 miles from Tulsa, which is about the distance from the northern edge of Edmond to Norman, which isn't really that far.

Not only is "Pryor" correct (technically, though no one calls it that, its original and perhaps still official name is "Pryor Creek" ... Pryor Creek, Oklahoma (OK) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, news ), Pryor is 44 miles from Tulsa according to ODOT: ODOT Mileage Program

As far as regional relevance is concerned, I'd suppose that Pryor is as relevant to Tulsa as, say, Chandler is to Okc (45 miles) or Chickasha (42 miles).

[Doug Loudenback]

I beg to differ on the comment regarding Tulsa people (not all, mind you) having an air of arrogance. I was at a statewide program of marketing people a couple years ago discussing economic development in both cities. Two of the panelists included a lady from the OKC Chamber and Roger Randle, former mayor of Tulsa. While Cynthia Reid from the OKC Chamber discussed relevant issues of MAPS, etc., Randle obviously could not compete with similar points. He said something to the effect. "Tulsa has always been the cultural capital of Oklahoma while Oklahoma City has been known the cowtown."

Yeah, he was not exactly a shining example for Tulsa's leadership . . .

When I was a kid (graduated from Lawton High in 1961), Tulsa was not even a member of the state school athletic organization ... didn't participate in the state's playoff and championship games, for example ... it was an island unto itself ... anyone who has grown up in Oklahoma knows that Tulsa has had, if it still doesn't, an air of superiority about itself. Perhaps that has changed and I think maybe it has ... Tulsa has hard some hard lessons in humility during the past decade or so. I've always liked Tulsa, despite its smug aloofness.

[HOT ROD]

Chickasha is included in the OKC Metropolitan Area. ..

[jbrown84]

When I was a kid (graduated from Lawton High in 1961), Tulsa was not even a member of the state school athletic organization ... didn't participate in the state's playoff and championship games, for example ... it was an island unto itself ... anyone who has grown up in Oklahoma knows that Tulsa has had, if it still doesn't, an air of superiority about itself. Perhaps that has changed and I think maybe it has ... Tulsa has hard some hard lessons in humility during the past decade or so. I've always liked Tulsa, despite its smug aloofness.

It's perpetuated by the media by always talking about Green Country as if they are not part of the State of Oklahoma. And then there's that lovely "Oklahoma Magazine", which has nothing but Tulsa articles and advertisements.

[bombermwc]

"Tulsa has always been the cultural capital of Oklahoma while Oklahoma City has been known the cowtown."

Yeah, he was not exactly a shining example for Tulsa's leadership . . .

And that little quote is no longer true at all.

[okcpulse]

"Tulsa has always been the cultural capital of Oklahoma while Oklahoma City has been known the cowtown."

Little does he realize that there is a difference between art and culture. Tulsa called itself the cultural capital of Oklahoma on the basis of its art deco district, opera and orchestra and several art musuems. People, art isn't culture. Art is art. Opera and orchestra? Those are just the arts. Indeed, these are attributes of culture. But what defines a cutural capital?

People beget culture, and a true cultural capital is a city that is diverse in culture. To base such a claim on a few museums, classical music and opera is plain stupidity, and Tulsa's mouth wrote checks that just couldn't be cashed. Tulsans always called OKC the cowtown. I asked for an explanation, and not a single Tulsan did a good job of explaining themselves.

That being said, Oklahoma City is the cultural capital of the state, in every way shape and form. Sorry to burst any Tulsa fan's bubble... it is what it is. But that doesn't mean Tulsa is a cultural desert. It just isn't the cultural capital.

So Roger basically sums Tulsa's problem in one sentence. And if Tulsa would just let it go, they might actually get somewhere.

And the only people taking part in this "rivalry" are the ones on boards like this one. I've lived in both towns. Most people I knew in Tulsa never gave OKC a single thought and vice versa... I know of no "Tulsa arrogance." People there, like here, are only concerned about living their lives, doing their jobs, etc.

True, most ordinary Tulsans don't care, and most don't have that smugness about them. It's the Tulsa elite and leadership that concerns us. I know a retired Williams accountant who still can't concede and embrace OKC's success. He doesn't have to, but his remarks echo a typical Tulsan... that OKC is still beneath Tulsa.

[In_Tulsa]

OKC is still beneath Tulsa.

You got that right okcpulse you are smart.

[jbrown84]

Even if it was just about the arts, OKC has caught up with--if not surpassed--Tulsa.

They have opera, but don't have an equivalent to Lyric Theatre. We both have ballet companies, we both have symphonies. We both have multiple live theatre options.

OKC's "indie art" scene has grown, with Paseo bustling on Friday nights and every space filled with gift shops and live-in gallery/studios. And new galleries are opening all the time all over the core.

The OKCMOA has a great permanent collection in a fantastic facility and brings in phenomenal international traveling exhibits.

And for every museum Tulsa has, we have added a couple. Oklahoma History Center, Oklahoma Heritage Center, Native American Cultural Center, new Gymnastics HOF...

[jbrown84]

They certainly are making strides in one kind of "art".






took those on Saturday.

[In_Tulsa]

That sometimes happens in BIG CITIES like Tulsa.

[TStheThird]

It happens in Tulsa because downtown is deserted.

[FritterGirl]

Even if it was just about the arts, OKC has caught up with--if not surpassed--Tulsa.

They have opera, but don't have an equivalent to Lyric Theatre. We both have ballet companies, we both have symphonies. We both have multiple live theatre options. ...

Tulsa may not have their own locally-produced musical theatre company a la Lyric, but don't forget that Celebrity Attractions, which brings in all of the major Broadway touring shows (Wicked, Spamalot, The Lion King, etc.) is hq'd in Tulsa. Their CEO often will take shows to Tulsa first, even though OKC is his largest susbscriber base, so as not to alienate his Tulsa audiences.

Their ballet company, which is starting to bring shows to OKC, is far superior to Ballet Oklahoma, which I'm sad to say has been struggling for the past several years.

Tulsa also has a burgeoning "young" arts scene, and puts on several shows targeted to the young, independent artists and musicians (think dfest and the like).

So, while I would agree that OKC's arts scene has certainly caught up, if not surpassed, that of Tulsa, the Tulsa scene still have much to offer.

[okcpulse]

Originally Posted by okcpulse
OKC is still beneath Tulsa.

You got that right okcpulse you are smart.

Like I said... typical Tulsan. They always choose ONLY the words that benefit them and sweep the truth under the rug.

That sometimes happens in BIG CITIES like Tulsa.

Oh puhlease! You and I both know that even Omaha has beat out Tulsa in growth (ouch, did that hurt!) Even the US Census agrees that Tulsa is not a BIG CITY.

[bombermwc]

So it was inevitable that the mud slinging began. It happens anytime the two cities get together and talk about each other. The cities are far too similar to swap places far too often to do this comparison game. My only main comment to add is that Old School OKC and Old School Tulsa are a good example of what's going to happen to each city.

In OKC, Old School and New School have gotten together on the same side to help change things together with an EXTREMELY proactive Civic leadership. In Tulsa, the Old School and New School are constantly fighting one another and the Civic leadership is a joke. You also see cross-border cooperation in OKC between "The City" and the suburbs....doesn't work as well in Tulsa either.

In OKC, I think people have seen what can happen when we get together and work at something, so everyone is willing to cooperate to make things happen. Tulsa is highly territorial and no one wants to do anything but be an individual. Cities working together in Tulsa is a joke....and I blame that on the past history of the Tulsa Civic leadership.

[jbrown84]

That sometimes happens in BIG CITIES like Tulsa.

Sure, in the slums.

Even in it's most depressed state, downtown OKC never saw that kind of graffiti on its historic CBD buildings. I was shocked and dismayed that that had been allowed to happen in Tulsa.

[Kerry]

My question is where were the police when this happened? Didn't someone notice Bebop carrying an extension ladder and a can of spray paint down the sidewalk? Bebop Rules is 30 feet off the ground for crying out loud.

[Shake2005]

That ugly tagging in downtown Tulsa was done by a crew from Oklahoma City by the way. It was part of a "graffiti war". TPD and OCPD are still looking for them.

[jbrown84]

still doesn't explain how it was allowed to happen in downtown to such an extreme and why it hasn't been cleaned up.

[OKC PATROL]

Tulsa may not have their own locally-produced musical theatre company a la Lyric, but don't forget that Celebrity Attractions, which brings in all of the major Broadway touring shows (Wicked, Spamalot, The Lion King, etc.) is hq'd in Tulsa. Their CEO often will take shows to Tulsa first, even though OKC is his largest susbscriber base, so as not to alienate his Tulsa audiences.

Their ballet company, which is starting to bring shows to OKC, is far superior to Ballet Oklahoma, which I'm sad to say has been struggling for the past several years.

Tulsa also has a burgeoning "young" arts scene, and puts on several shows targeted to the young, independent artists and musicians (think dfest and the like).

So, while I would agree that OKC's arts scene has certainly caught up, if not surpassed, that of Tulsa, the Tulsa scene still have much to offer.

Uhhh..Ya. OKC has CREATED the "young art scene" in Tulsa. Where do you think IAO and OVAC are located? I have been in enough shows to absolutley guarantee shows like momentum and many many others have been created by OKCers and implemented into the Tulsa lil' art seen. The last one was held at a nasty former cafeteria(Lubys)!!
OKC has ACTUAL artists that live in OKC having to come in and make your sculpture (DAVID PHELPS showing the Ark river that historically dries up). Tulsa has a museum that has a bunch of pretty flowers. Get off the high horse and smell the coffee.

Hasnt Tulsa lost the Brady for shows...For decades that area/venue has been able to support the arts. The Civic Center crushes ANY venue in tulsa for the performing arts. The tulsa entertainment group cant even raise money. tulsa cant pass taxes to save its life. It cant even lure in a Wal-Mart downtown!!!!

What does tulsa need..Prune juice to pass that ****.

Bells is gone! Drillers moving!!

Instead of trying to bash OKC, maybe someone needs to give that Kaiser guy a call to pump in life support for a lovely city that is QUICKLY QUICKLY going down the tubes. So before you crap on OKC....Think about your terrible homeless problem that is "down by the river."

Listen to this guy "Bobby" he will tell you how it is...
YouTube - Tulsa, OK