Incredible Pizza

[ddavidson8]

Circuitboard,

We value your questions and opinions. As a fellow Board-Poster-American, I understand your value as a person. You're good enough, smart enough and people like you.

[dismayed]

I believe churches are an exception to the rule.

If I remember correctly Title 7 and 13 laws can be gotten around by large employers if they claim a "bona fide work requirement." So if you could say that your business required someone to be fit/in-shape because their job description would rely on moving heavy stuff around and it would be unreasonable for your workplace to make accommodations, then that's "bona fide." Same with church's having a need to employ people of their faith.

[Easy180]

Hobby Lobby is a spiritual corporation, but doesn't discriminate. Don't see the difference here.

I was thinking the same thing

Wouldn't have a problem with it if they did anyway...Plenty of other lower wage jobs available to us that sleep in on Sundays

[Midtowner]

If I remember correctly Title 7 and 13 laws can be gotten around by large employers if they claim a "bona fide work requirement." So if you could say that your business required someone to be fit/in-shape because their job description would rely on moving heavy stuff around and it would be unreasonable for your workplace to make accommodations, then that's "bona fide." Same with church's having a need to employ people of their faith.

I did a bit of poking around on the EEOC website. It seems that the key here is whether or not the employer is able to make "reasonable" accommodations. As to whether something is reasonable or not, it seems we might have to go to the case law.

For example, if your company was searching for a receptionist for their front office, you would probably not be able to not hire someone because they were Muslim and had to wear the Hijab.

When the issue is whether the accommodation is "reasonable," you, at least in this case, have to hit the law books.

[Toadrax]

I don't think you should receive equal opportunity for employment if your imaginary friend tells you to wear **** on your head at all times.

[Midtowner]

Fine, but the EEOC disagrees with you.

[FritterGirl]

Midtowner,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not illegal for a potential employer to even ask about a person's religious practices or church affiliation during the hiring process? Perhaps this only applies to organizations that are required to stick to EOE guidelines, but I thought that questions about religion are one of the interview no-no's, along with questions about one's marital status, children, sexual orientation, etc.

Obviously, this isn't the case in those instances where having a particular church affiliation is required (such as the hiring of clergy, etc.)

[Midtowner]

Midtowner,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not illegal for a potential employer to even ask about a person's religious practices or church affiliation during the hiring process? Perhaps this only applies to organizations that are required to stick to EOE guidelines, but I thought that questions about religion are one of the interview no-no's, along with questions about one's marital status, children, sexual orientation, etc.

Obviously, this isn't the case in those instances where having a particular church affiliation is required (such as the hiring of clergy, etc.)

That sounds right.

Like I said, I'm not inclined to have much of an opinion on a subject I don't know much about. I'm sure a quick search of the EEOC website will yield the desired information

[Toadrax]

Fine, but the EEOC disagrees with you.

The EEOC needs to stop pushing the rights of crazy people. If I had a make believe person telling me things I would go check myself into Mercy hospital ASAP. They have an Equal Opportunity to get help just like any of us would.

No one was born taking orders from make believe people, they had to be indoctrinated into that stupidity. What do we do when their make believe friend tells them to steal company documents or put a cherry bomb in the toilet?

Furthermore, if they want to act out on fantasy they should keep it private. I don't go into a job saying I am a level 75 monk from Windurst.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Now I want to go apply for a job at a church just to see if they ask me if I believe in God.

The EEOC needs to stop pushing the rights of crazy people. If I had a make believe person telling me things I would go check myself into Mercy hospital ASAP. They have an Equal Opportunity to get help just like any of us would.

No one was born taking orders from make believe people, they had to be indoctrinated into that stupidity. What do we do when their make believe friend tells them to steal company documents or put a cherry bomb in the toilet?

Furthermore, if they want to act out on fantasy they should keep it private. I don't go into a job saying I am a level 75 monk from Windurst.

Why not? I go into work telling people I'm a fire truck.

[CuatrodeMayo]

The EEOC needs to stop pushing the rights of crazy people. If I had a make believe person telling me things I would go check myself into Mercy hospital ASAP. They have an Equal Opportunity to get help just like any of us would.

No one was born taking orders from make believe people, they had to be indoctrinated into that stupidity. What do we do when their make believe friend tells them to steal company documents or put a cherry bomb in the toilet?

Furthermore, if they want to act out on fantasy they should keep it private. I don't go into a job saying I am a level 75 monk from Windurst.

So I'm stupid if I believe in a higher power?

[Midtowner]

The EEOC needs to stop pushing the rights of crazy people. If I had a make believe person telling me things I would go check myself into Mercy hospital ASAP. They have an Equal Opportunity to get help just like any of us would.

Interesting. I have a copy of the DSM-IV here... wanna bet that when I look inside, I won't find a pathology described as "being religious"?

I take it that you're a strongly anti-religious person who believes that religion is a delusion. You're entitled to that.

Of course, I could have misunderstood you. You could have been trying to cleverly describe a schizophrenic person.

Of course, you have to realize that not all women who wear the Hijab are schizophrenic or mentally ill. In fact, the vast majority are not. They are simply religious people who believe that certain attire is part of their religious views -- not unlike Hari Krishna, Buddhism, Orthodox Judaism or the Amish.

[Toadrax]

So I'm stupid if I believe in a higher power?

No.

I take it that you're a strongly anti-religious person who believes that religion is a delusion. You're entitled to that.

Of course, I could have misunderstood you. You could have been trying to cleverly describe a schizophrenic person.

Of course, you have to realize that not all women who wear the Hijab are schizophrenic or mentally ill.

An imaginary friend, that doesn't exist, told them that they are going to get raped by an angel if they do not cover their hair.

Religion is fine, but most people do not take it so far that they really believe that some superior being cares what they wear.

My Jewish friends do not wear kippahs and stuff at work because that would be retarded, for them to say that because God says so would be even more retarded, for them to apply for a job where wearing one would get in the way of doing said job and force the employer to accommodate would be the worst.

Imagine if a conservative christian lady applied to work at a strip club and refused to show her boobs because it was against her religion?

Dhimmi Watch: Philadelphia Tells Muslim Police to Trim Beards or Lose Jobs

Do your religious crap on your own time, dress for business during business time. No one is going to hell or getting raped. You shouldn't have a right to religious expression at work.

[kevinpate]

Toadrax, I checked with my make believe person and no offense is taken ... something about my make believe person believes in you, even if I have my own doubts of you.

After all, my sole knowledge of you is but words printed in a manner I can not even clutch in my grasp, appearing before me through a process I don't fully understand. Thus in truth I can't know with certainty whether you are real or merely a reasonably advanced bot with a sometimes quite interesting attitude subroutine.

But I've come to trust my make believe friend, to a level where my friend no longer seems make believe at all.

Perhaps in time I'll know you as well.

Best wishes.

[bandnerd]

Wow, suddenly I am so appreciative of where I work now.

[Midtowner]

An imaginary friend, that doesn't exist, told them that they are going to get raped by an angel if they do not cover their hair.

What religion would that be?

Religion is fine, but most people do not take it so far that they really believe that some superior being cares what they wear.

Some do. In fact, millions do.

My Jewish friends do not wear kippahs and stuff at work because that would be retarded, for them to say that because God says so would be even more retarded, for them to apply for a job where wearing one would get in the way of doing said job and force the employer to accommodate would be the worst.

Some people put their religion ahead of the possibility that their religious displays might result in illegal discrimination. Whether or not your friends wear their kippah has no bearing whatsoever on their job performance.

To be allowed to wear it would hardly be asking the employer to make an unreasonable accommodation.

Imagine if a conservative christian lady applied to work at a strip club and refused to show her boobs because it was against her religion?

If the religious beliefs stand in the way of actually doing the job, that is not a reasonable accommodation. Really. Read the EEOC stuff. Stop making an ass of yourself.

Do your religious crap on your own time, dress for business during business time. No one is going to hell or getting raped. You shouldn't have a right to religious expression at work.

That's your opinion. The EEOC does not agree with you. Guess which opinion employers are more likely to follow.

[mmonroe]

So I'm stupid if I believe in a higher power?

I'm stupid too apparently.

[bandnerd]

So are we not supposed to allow people to celebrate religious holidays, either? Sorry, that just occurred to me.

[Toadrax]

That's your opinion. The EEOC does not agree with you. Guess which opinion employers are more likely to follow.

Neither. Quite a few places would just silently discriminate and not say anything. I doubt any of those nuts could compete in a technical field anyway, so my industry is safe.

So are we not supposed to allow people to celebrate religious holidays, either? Sorry, that just occurred to me.

Most places allow you to schedule a few days off from work now and them, schedule them for when you need them.

[dismayed]

Also I think none of these laws apply if you have less than 15 employees in your company. So basically small companies can abuse the crap out of their employees.

[mmonroe]

We let me register and abuse away.

[bandnerd]

So, Toadrax--if they took away Christmas as an automatic holiday for many companies, how would you feel?

[flintysooner]

I just read about a case where two members of Gideons International were arrested outside a school for handing out Bibles because they were in a school safety zone. I think it was in Florida. I read a blurb about a U S District Court ruling in the case that I think happened just a few days ago. I remember being surprised the ruling had nothing to do with religion but because the law being offended was vague.

[Toadrax]

So, Toadrax--if they took away Christmas as an automatic holiday for many companies, how would you feel?

Some places do not have a automatic holiday for Christmas.. it isn't a problem. I worked last Christmas but took more time off to go out of town on news years.

If you want to take time off for that holiday, you simply schedule it. It works out better for everyone. I would rather have more time off for the new years celebrations than Christmas, some people would rather have more time off for Hanukkah than new years. :P

[CuatrodeMayo]

=I doubt any of those nuts could compete in a technical field anyway, so my industry is safe.

Thanks for answering my above question.