Clark Crew BBQ

[whatitis]

I guess I'm in the minority as I think Maples is absolutely fantastic and it shocks me that it doesn't have lines out front daily.

I've had it twice now and I wasn't impressed either time. I've had burn co in Tulsa, Butcher BBQ stand in Wellston. KC Joes (and back when it was Oklahoma Joes the original location), Cattleack BBQ in Dallas, Franklin in Austin. I'm a fan of some damn good bbq but I just wasn't impressed with Maples and I feel like two tries should be enough. I found it to be only slightly better than say an earl's and for the price and for me the inconvenience (because I live in Yukon and work in west okc) I just don't find it worth it.

[RedDollar]

I've had it twice now and I wasn't impressed either time. I've had burn co in Tulsa, Butcher BBQ stand in Wellston. KC Joes (and back when it was Oklahoma Joes the original location), Cattleack BBQ in Dallas, Franklin in Austin. I'm a fan of some damn good bbq but I just wasn't impressed with Maples and I feel like two tries should be enough. I found it to be only slightly better than say an earl's and for the price and for me the inconvenience (because I live in Yukon and work in west okc) I just don't find it worth it.

Burn Co and Butcher , is different style than Maples.

Just me, but I'm not real impressed with KC style barbecue, its more about the sauce in KC.

And any joint compared to Cattleack and Franklins, is gonna fall short. If that's your expectation, then its not gonna get met very often.

[RedDollar]

Barbecue is entirely subjective.

The BBQ Editor for Texas Monthly visited Butcher BBQ Stand and here's what he said on Twitter. And BTW, this is the most negative thing I've seen him say about any barbecue he's tweeted about. That includes gas stations across Texas

https://twitter.com/BBQsnob/status/1066050665095540736

This guy has a lot of clout in Texas. If he visits a joint and gives it a thumbs up, the joints business will go through the roof.

Me, I like Butcher's pork. Their pulled pork is excellent and I love the ribs. The brisket is so so, I kind of agree with Vaughan here. I disagree that Butcher is serving their competition food.

[whatitis]

Burn Co and Butcher , is different style than Maples.

Just me, but I'm not real impressed with KC style barbecue, its more about the sauce in KC.

And any joint compared to Cattleack and Franklins, is gonna fall short. If that's your expectation, then its not gonna get met very often.

I'm not saying that's what i expect. I'm just trying to clarify that I'm not the kind of person who has only been to Earl's and rib crib. I've had damn good BBQ. I thought maples fell short of my expectation. The price was almost what you pay at franklin so i feel it should be head and shoulders above Earl's and i just didn't think it was.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Barbecue is entirely subjective.The BBQ Editor for Texas Monthly visited Butcher BBQ Stand and here's what he said on Twitter. And BTW, this is the most negative thing I've seen him say about any barbecue he's tweeted about. That includes gas stations across Texas https://twitter.com/BBQsnob/status/1066050665095540736This guy has a lot of clout in Texas. If he visits a joint and gives it a thumbs up, the joints business will go through the roof.Me, I like Butcher's pork. Their pulled pork is excellent and I love the ribs. The brisket is so so, I kind of agree with Vaughan here. I disagree that Butcher is serving their competition food.

I’ve had a LOT of BBQ. I think the best I ever had was Jack Stack in Kansas City. I know it’s now a small chain, but I absolutely loved it!

[okatty]

^We would go to Jack Stack in KC back in the days of the BIG 8 basketball tourney. Fantastic back at that time - have not been in years. Arthur Bryants, Gates, and so on. But JS was my favorite.

[ctchandler]

Mr. Blue Sky,
We love Jack Stacks. Good food and good portions of food. One of my favorites.
C. T.

[LakeEffect]

Barbecue is entirely subjective.

The BBQ Editor for Texas Monthly visited Butcher BBQ Stand and here's what he said on Twitter. And BTW, this is the most negative thing I've seen him say about any barbecue he's tweeted about. That includes gas stations across Texas

https://twitter.com/BBQsnob/status/1066050665095540736

This guy has a lot of clout in Texas. If he visits a joint and gives it a thumbs up, the joints business will go through the roof.

Me, I like Butcher's pork. Their pulled pork is excellent and I love the ribs. The brisket is so so, I kind of agree with Vaughan here. I disagree that Butcher is serving their competition food.

I've seen him say harsher things. That wasn't a big slam...

[Roger S]

I've seen him say harsher things. That wasn't a big slam...

Not to mention they aren't serving competition style BBQ at the restaurant.... Well at least not the kind they are winning contests with. Flavors may be similar because they are using their competition product but they are cooking for the consumer and not the judges at the stand.Competition BBQ is too costly, and labor intensive, to be served commercially. The average consumer wouldn't want to pay for it.

[RedDollar]

I've seen him say harsher things. That wasn't a big slam...

Go find me one where he's been critical ? Those are rare birds.

[RedDollar]

Not to mention they aren't serving competition style BBQ at the restaurant.... Well at least not the kind they are winning contests with. Flavors may be similar because they are using their competition product but they are cooking for the consumer and not the judges at the stand.Competition BBQ is too costly, and labor intensive, to be served commercially. The average consumer wouldn't want to pay for it.

Average consumer would not want to eat it, either .

Travis Clark says he could not eat three bites of his comp brisket.

Vaughan is waayy offf here, and he should know better. I know for a fact, he does know better.

[Roger S]

Go find me one where he's been critical ? Those are rare birds.

I saw him flat out trash some places on his original Full Custom Gospel BBQ blog.

[RedDollar]

I saw him flat out trash some places on his original Full Custom Gospel BBQ blog.

Come on , man .................how many years ago was that ??

The worst thing he says on twitter, is that a menu item needs more seasoning, or less seasoning, but he always counters that by saying some other item is great.

He walked over the entire menu at Butcher. And the only reason he went to Butcher, was because they'd just won the Jack.

He did go to Maples last January, said it " had potential " , that was about it.

Me and another fella have been watching him travel Texas for the past two years, waiting for that critical review. We've not seen it yet.

[Roger S]

Come on , man .................how many years ago was that ??

Not that many... I think he became the Texas Monthly BBQ Editor around 2015.And I didn't see a time constraint on your request..... Much like most food critics. He tempered his critiquing when it stopped being a hobby and became a career.

[RedDollar]

Not that many... I think he became the Texas Monthly BBQ Editor around 2015.And I didn't see a time constraint on your request..... Much like most food critics. He tempered his critiquing when it stopped being a hobby and became a career.

Twas 2013, when he became the BBQ editor

And yes, he now has to write to the Texas Monthly audience, which is mostly Texans.

IMO, if he went to a joint that was just flat out bad, he wouldn't say anything and just move on.

He went to local joint of a Texas bud of mine, that my bud and the locals don't think much of, and gave it a positive review. That's when both of us started paying attention. Its really hard to get a thumbs down from him in State of Texas.

[Dob Hooligan]

Gents, please help me understand something here:

I think I just read upthread that "competition BBQ" is some kind of product that people can only stand to eat in small quantities? Like 3 bites? What the...?

I hate to use the phrase "food snobs", but when a food of, and for, the working class becomes unavailable and unaffordable where are we?

If I say that I like Earl's, Rib Crib, Billy Sims, etc... how do I come to be seen as "less than" in the eyes of others?

[barrettd]

Gents, please help me understand something here:

I think I just read upthread that "competition BBQ" is some kind of product that people can only stand to eat in small quantities? Like 3 bites? What the...?

I hate to use the phrase "food snobs", but when a food of, and for, the working class becomes unavailable and unaffordable where are we?

If I say that I like Earl's, Rib Crib, Billy Sims, etc... how do I come to be seen as "less than" in the eyes of others?

Well, I've come to understand there's a big difference between competition BBQ and backyard BBQ. I have no real interest in comp BBQ, even though I do watch all the Pitmasters shows and such. I'd much rather cook tasty food for my family and friends than have to worry about whether I have enough green stuff in a box or if my chicken thighs are a uniform shape.

As for being "less than" for liking Earl's, etc., eat what you like. If those are the restaurants you like, more power to you. I've never been a big fan of degrading others' opinions about food. It's all subjective. I used to love Earl's ribs before I started smoking my own. Now I'm hard pressed to find a rib I like as much as my own. Kind of like steak. I used to like to get a steak at a few places, now I never order steak at a restaurant, because I can cook it perfectly to my taste at home.

There are a few BBQ joints I prefer over the ones you mentioned, and if you haven't tried them, I'd suggest you check out Back Door BBQ and Bedlam BBQ, at least. You might find something you like more, or add to your collection of places you like.

At the end of the day, nobody should care what you like to eat. You do you. There is a reason places like Olive Garden and Texas Roadhouse are doing crazy amounts of business even when they're an easy target for "food snobs".

Let's also not forget, even bad BBQ is still pretty good.

[RedDollar]

Gents, please help me understand something here:

I think I just read upthread that "competition BBQ" is some kind of product that people can only stand to eat in small quantities? Like 3 bites? What the...?

I hate to use the phrase "food snobs", but when a food of, and for, the working class becomes unavailable and unaffordable where are we?

If I say that I like Earl's, Rib Crib, Billy Sims, etc... how do I come to be seen as "less than" in the eyes of others?

You're right. Dead on. Its all about what each person likes. Entirely subjective.

But the competition thing is a whole different world. Judges take one bite of the meat, and that meat has to stand out. So everything the cooks do is focused on packing flavor into that one bite.

And there's a major governing body of these comps, that's KCBS, Kansas City Barbecue Society. They set the standards for how the meat is judged for appearance, tenderness, and flavor. So the cooks focus to meet those standards. I don't know who died and made KCBS the barbecue God ( or Daniel Vaughn ) that only they know barbecue.

If you've got thirty minutes to watch a YT vid, this one is a great illustration of the diff in comp meat. There's now steak grilling competitions, and this fella who was once on BBQ Pitmasters TV show is now entering steak comps.

Here he prepares four rib eyes in four different ways. Me in my back yard, I'm good with the salt/pepper version. And I think what he's doing to the other three is akin to putting A-1 or Heinz 57 on a steak after its grilled. But if every competitor just used salt/pepper .... there would be no separation to the judges who are taking one bite.

( side note, three of products he's putting on these steaks come from Oklahoma .... Butcher BBQ, Head Country, and Kosmos )

https://youtu.be/_zx-qrdRuac

[Roger S]

But the competition thing is a whole different world. Judges take one bite of the meat, and that meat has to stand out. So everything the cooks do is focused on packing flavor into that one bite. And there's a major governing body of these comps, that's KCBS, Kansas City Barbecue Society. They set the standards for how the meat is judged for appearance, tenderness, and flavor. So the cooks focus to meet those standards. I don't know who died and made KCBS the barbecue God ( or Daniel Vaughn ) that only they know barbecue.

Considering a judge typically judges 24 entries during a contest. If each bite is 1 oz that is 1.5 lbs of meat. Most take more than one bite and most also take a bite of a saltine and a swig of water to cleanse their palates between samples... It's a lot of food to eat in one sitting.There are actually several sanctioning bodies but KCBS is the largest and most well known. IBCA in Texas does not allow garnish. In the KCBS garnish is optional but the cooks use it to hide imperfections for presentation. Judges aren't allowed to touch the garnish so you have to judge what you can see.And actually Daniel Vaughn is The BBQ Snob... Not the BBQ GodAnd personally while I am a certified KCBS BBQ judge... I'm not a fan of that style of BBQ. If I had to choose one place to eat BBQ the rest of my life. It would be Snow's BBQ in Lexington Texas..... At least while Tootsie is still running the pits.

[Roger S]

^^^ Also not sure why the formatting keeps getting stripped from my replies... Just started happening the last few days with the popup issue.

[TheTravellers]

^^^ Also not sure why the formatting keeps getting stripped from my replies... Just started happening the last few days with the popup issue.

Yeah, there are still some problems with the server - your formatting problems, it doesn't clear out the username field when typing over it (you have to backspace over "User Name" now), just replying to a thread takes you to a whole new page instead of just opening a little reply box below it, can't see ignored posts. Sorry about hijacking the thread, but maybe Pete will see this...

And sorta on topic - what's best to order at Back Door? Went there shortly after they opened and got a few things, but wasn't impressed. Thinking we should give them another try since they're still around. We were eating at Cajun Corner last week looking across the street at Back Door wishing we had gone there instead.

[barrettd]

Yeah, there are still some problems with the server - your formatting problems, it doesn't clear out the username field when typing over it (you have to backspace over "User Name" now), just replying to a thread takes you to a whole new page instead of just opening a little reply box below it, can't see ignored posts. Sorry about hijacking the thread, but maybe Pete will see this...

And sorta on topic - what's best to order at Back Door? Went there shortly after they opened and got a few things, but wasn't impressed. Thinking we should give them another try since they're still around. We were eating at Cajun Corner last week looking across the street at Back Door wishing we had gone there instead.

I haven't been there in a while, so I mostly remember the sides. Deep fried pickled okra, deviled eggs with brisket on top...Also, their pork belly was really good. The brisket was OK, and their sausages are good. They also have a lot of sauces, and I really like their coffee sauce.

[barrettd]

You're right. Dead on. Its all about what each person likes. Entirely subjective.

But the competition thing is a whole different world. Judges take one bite of the meat, and that meat has to stand out. So everything the cooks do is focused on packing flavor into that one bite.

And there's a major governing body of these comps, that's KCBS, Kansas City Barbecue Society. They set the standards for how the meat is judged for appearance, tenderness, and flavor. So the cooks focus to meet those standards. I don't know who died and made KCBS the barbecue God ( or Daniel Vaughn ) that only they know barbecue.

If you've got thirty minutes to watch a YT vid, this one is a great illustration of the diff in comp meat. There's now steak grilling competitions, and this fella who was once on BBQ Pitmasters TV show is now entering steak comps.

Here he prepares four rib eyes in four different ways. Me in my back yard, I'm good with the salt/pepper version. And I think what he's doing to the other three is akin to putting A-1 or Heinz 57 on a steak after its grilled. But if every competitor just used salt/pepper .... there would be no separation to the judges who are taking one bite.

( side note, three of products he's putting on these steaks come from Oklahoma .... Butcher BBQ, Head Country, and Kosmos )

https://youtu.be/_zx-qrdRuac

I feel the same way about what Harry (and most of those steak comp cooks) do to their steaks. Especially the grill mark stuff. I flip my GrillGrates over to the flat side so I can get an all-over sear on them.

I tried making a steak the same way as Kosmo in one of his videos and it was awful. Too salty, too much seasoning, etc. I'm a fan of salt and pepper on my steaks, but sometimes use an SPG off the shelf that has some garlic powder and other complimentary flavors. Just depends on my mood, I guess.

[RedDollar]

I feel the same way about what Harry (and most of those steak comp cooks) do to their steaks. Especially the grill mark stuff. I flip my GrillGrates over to the flat side so I can get an all-over sear on them.

I tried making a steak the same way as Kosmo in one of his videos and it was awful. Too salty, too much seasoning, etc. I'm a fan of salt and pepper on my steaks, but sometimes use an SPG off the shelf that has some garlic powder and other complimentary flavors. Just depends on my mood, I guess.

After smoking my streaks on the Kettle at low temps, I sear them on a griddle on my gasser so I can get an all over sear.

I'm not about beauty marks.

[Jeepnokc]

I feel the same way about what Harry (and most of those steak comp cooks) do to their steaks. Especially the grill mark stuff. I flip my GrillGrates over to the flat side so I can get an all-over sear on them.

I tried making a steak the same way as Kosmo in one of his videos and it was awful. Too salty, too much seasoning, etc. I'm a fan of salt and pepper on my steaks, but sometimes use an SPG off the shelf that has some garlic powder and other complimentary flavors. Just depends on my mood, I guess.

I make my own rubs for brisket and pork but hen it comes to steaks....the montreal steak seasoning is dead on for flavor.