Hillwilly's (formerly Sunset Patio Bar)

[soonerguru]

Fassler has armed security already. They can't do anything about the stuff going on outside.

Collective also had a shooting outside a year or so ago.

This kind of stuff just comes with a bar district + lots of people on a weekend night. Look what Austin does on 6th street, they close entire blocks to vehicles and have a massive, controversial police presence - yet there is still fights and shootings.

There needs to be a paid police presence in the area on weekend nights, and it should be paid for by the clubs that are drawing the shooters to the area. These shootings are usually outside of the venues, but just because they happen outside does not exonerate the venues at all.

If they care about the city and want to continue operating without harassment, they should be proactive and get real security outside the venues, on the streets. It can be done.

In this case, if Sunset had simply had the people fighting arrested, there would have been no shooting. The fight started inside Sunset, the people were thrown out, and then the shooting ensued.

Sunset is not blameless here at all.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

Oklahoma is a permitless open carry state. How is a private business at fault in this situation? And how is a police presence a deterrent to an active shooter situation?

[April in the Plaza]

I place responsibility for this condition at the hands of the mayor, the council person, the Chief of Police and any other official who has influence with the ABLE Commission. They need to seek the help of that agency in enforcing the provisions of ABC 2 requirements.

He has been a decent cheerleader for what remains a city manager run city, but he’s (somewhat wisely) shown little interest in touching tough / political issues. I would think he steers well clear of this one.

[onthestrip]

Just curious, what type of crowd is that?

The type that like to fire guns in or outside bars. Kongs has had multiple gun incidents in and outside their space over the last couple years. But nice try at getting at something else with your question though.

Oklahoma is a permitless open carry state. How is a private business at fault in this situation? And how is a police presence a deterrent to an active shooter situation?

Seriously? You dont think more of a police present in the immediate vicinity might give a would be murder second thought on firing a gun in a parking lot? I doubt if the people or groups who got kicked out of Sunset saw a few cops around that intersection that they would still decide to empty a clip just a couple hundred feet away a few moments later.

[soonerguru]

Seriously? You dont think more of a police present in the immediate vicinity might give a would be murder second thought on firing a gun in a parking lot? I doubt if the people or groups who got kicked out of Sunset saw a few cops around that intersection that they would still decide to empty a clip just a couple hundred feet away a few moments later.

Exactly. I find comments like the one you are responding to frustrating beyond measure.

I've lived in big cities like NYC that manage far more difficult crowd-control situations. It was NYE for crying out loud. It's an area that is known to be problematic. More cops patrolling the area in addition to the clubs taking more responsibility for their patrons could and would make a difference.

[Anonymous.]

I have mentioned it before on this forum a couple years ago, that OKC should think about closing 10th from the roundabout to collective to all vehicles except streetcar. Then you can have a police presence along that stretch and the pedestrians won't have to clog the tiny sidewalks.

Doing this on summer weekends nights and winter holidays seems appropriate.

[Martin]

^i'm sure that the admin staff at saint anthony hospital will be cool with that. : )

[GoGators]

I have mentioned it before on this forum a couple years ago, that OKC should think about closing 10th from the roundabout to collective to all vehicles except streetcar. Then you can have a police presence along that stretch and the pedestrians won't have to clog the tiny sidewalks.

Doing this on summer weekends nights and winter holidays seems appropriate.

That's a very interesting idea. It would make an especially nice pedestrian corridor once the new mixed use development across from Fassler comes online.

[BoulderSooner]

^i'm sure that the admin staff at saint anthony hospital will be cool with that. : )

considering the 10th street exit of of 235 was one of the things they demanded to stay in midtown i bet they would not be a fan of this idea

[Martin]

considering the 10th street exit of of 235 was one of the things they demanded to stay in midtown i bet they would not be a fan of this idea

exactly.

[Teo9969]

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

[Pete]

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

Ever single place in the Plaza is ABC-2.

[Jersey Boss]

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

And...? They will just have to be correct

[BoulderSooner]

There are quite a few places around the city on an ABC-2 that no way do they hit 51% food sales. If you go after the bad ones, you'll have to go after the good ones too :-/

i don't think people really understand the amount of places this really would effect.

[TheTravellers]

i don't think people really understand the amount of places this really would effect.

Then change the rules.

[Jersey Boss]

Then change the rules.

Exactly. Why should compliant establishments be at a disadvantage. To not be in compliance because we make less profit is a b.s. line of rationalization. These non compliance establishments are also able to avoid paying what is rightfully owed to the tax commission through non compliance. There are no excuses

[Pete]

It's pretty simple: force the non-compliant businesses to apply for the proper liquor license.

In the case of most, that wouldn't present a problem. In the case of Sunset or Kong's, they probably would not be able to get a pure liquor license due to all the related problems.

Worse case, they would actually have to start operating as a restaurant which they purported to be in their initial application; meaning they could only generate 49% of their sales from alcohol. That would put a stop to these full-blown clubs in a hurry.

[Jersey Boss]

^ And that is why it will take the influence that local leaders yield with the ABLE Commission to accomplish this. Letters and phone calls accomplish nada.

[Just the facts]

Exactly. Why should compliant establishments be at a disadvantage. To not be in compliance because we make less profit is a b.s. line of rationalization. These non compliance establishments are also able to avoid paying what is rightfully owed to the tax commission through non compliance. There are no excuses

I would take it a step further than that and investigate if they knowingly lied in their initial application.

[BoulderSooner]

a ton of places that operate as restaurants currently (that everyone on here sees as restaurants first ) don't meet the 51% rule ...

[soonerguru]

I would hate to see the city's entire nightclub and bar scene destroyed due to the irresponsible actions of a handful of players. We know who the people are and we know the establishments they run. It's literally a handful of problem children.

[Pete]

a ton of places that operate as restaurants currently (that everyone on here sees as restaurants first ) don't meet the 51% rule ...

Which raises the very real possibility that many places are under-reporting their alcohol sales to be compliant, which would also mean millions in underpayment of taxes.

[BoulderSooner]

Which raises the very real possibility that many places are under-reporting their alcohol sales to be compliant, which would also mean millions in underpayment of taxes.

i have been told that able nor the city do any audits on this .. i would not think that the corporate places are commiting fraud

[Jersey Boss]

I would hate to see the city's entire nightclub and bar scene destroyed due to the irresponsible actions of a handful of players. We know who the people are and we know the establishments they run. It's literally a handful of problem children.

False choice when a proper ABC 3 permit is available to be in compliance.

[Pete]

i have been told that able nor the city do any audits on this .. i would not think that the corporate places are commiting fraud

It's not a matter of audits.

Restaurants and bars are required to send in monthly sales reports that show revenue for food and drink.


The idea that laws shouldn't be enforced is ridiculous. Laws and regulations are the foundation for a community of any type. As a society, we don't get to pick and choose the laws we want to obey.

By not enforcing ABC-2 laws it allows operators to apply as a restaurant but operate as a club. There are very good reasons there is separation in these types of businesses because they are not at all the same thing, which is exactly why things were structured this way in the first place. You don't have shootings and stabbings at restaurants.

Most of us would be happy to have a true restaurant as a neighbor. Very, very few would want a full-blown club with thousands of people and drunken mayhem near our place of business or home.