Retail Explosion on Memorial Road

[BDP]

I have watched this thread grow, and I'm still learning about this project, but it looks to be another strip mall letdown. This wreaks of University North Park.

I hope this turns out to be OKC's first true lifestyle center..with these incredible retailers, they should go back to the drawing board and re-plan this development. This should be done right; give us something that will be an OKC landmark for decades to come.

Not another Mayfair Village or Belle Isle or other faded strip malls.

To be fair, as excited as people around here get about retail chains, it's not common that they change their MO to improve the aesthetic or the quality of life for some distant market. These guys will give the developer a number that works for them and then the developer has to decide how much value add he can afford and still hit the target rents. And outside of some of their urban locations, most of these retailers are in plug and play developments when in the suburbs. Most would only force upgrades in an area that already had an established upscale aesthetic. Memorial Road really doesn't fit that description.

[OKCisOK4me]

Well, the only thing I can think of is that I personally avoid the area like the plague because the traffic is horrendus and will be even worse once this development opens for business--which is why I mentioned earlier in this thread that they need to turn Memorial into 3 lanes on each side with those third lanes turning into right turn only lanes about 500 feet away from the intersections. But, as far as business goes? I haven't seen any decline in the area. Food joints seem to be about the only new businesses going in the last few years but like Pete said, national retail took a huge hit and is just getting back up to par, so if there's been a decline, that's beyond my experience.



In the 'Main Event' thread, there are pics from another location and it has a very nice full service bar.

got stuck at the bottom of page 5...which tends not to be seen in fast moving threads!

[AP]

Man, this thread really blew up today...

[SomeGuy]

H and M and Von Maur in quail springs are gonna be pretty sweet. Now if Only quail had Belk too..

[Zuplar]

Man, this thread really blew up today...

No joke.

This might be why.


http://www.koco.com/news/money/costc...z/-/index.html

http://kfor.com/2013/10/17/national-...oklahoma-city/

[PWitty]

This reminds me a lot of the Legends area in Kansas City, with the retail, movie theater, water fall, some restaurants. The stores in this just won't be in a outlet mall format. But there is a lot of similarities.

We are just missing the race track and casino. You could mention the Great Wolf Lodge too.

I was thinking the same thing. I was back in KC a few weeks ago and I drove by Legends on the way to and from the airport, and I couldn't help but think that an area like that in OKC somewhere outside the city core would be really cool. It would be even cooler if there was a stadium like Sporting Park as well

[OKCisOK4me]

I was thinking the same thing. I was back in KC a few weeks ago and I drove by Legends on the way to and from the airport, and I couldn't help but think that an area like that in OKC somewhere outside the city core would be really cool. It would be even cooler if there was a stadium like Sporting Park as well

Legends Softball Complex is right around the corner!

[Spartan]

Good points. I don't have any statistical data, but the area at Memorial & Penn sure seems to be headed downhill over the past several years. Surely, I'm not alone in that feeling, am I?

You're not, i agree wholeheartedly. That area, like the rest of OKC outside downtown and historic neighborhoods, is in a sprawl cycle where the older it gets, the more it goes downhill. Some of those apartments are 30 years old.

And of course there's the matter that we allowed the ESFHS district to be completely inundated w cheaply built apartments...

[Dustin]

KOCO is about to talk about this.

[Spartan]

I hope you are wrong, but this is what I fear given the retail track record in this city. The one thing this development has going for it is the involvement of Costco and the fact that Wal-Mart is already so close at Memorial and Penn. Because of that, there is no chance Wal-Mart could become an anchor for this development, meaning it already stands a better chance than Belle Isle.

That's the thing, is our depressing retail track record, which Classen Curve really just kept going.

I am not a negative nancy. I am hugely optimistic about OKC, I just have high standards that I want us to be living up to. We have had this track record thing going my whole life though..

I have even seen two failed prior lifestyle developments for this site, and several more just down Memorial..Tuscana, S side of Mem/May, down at Rockwell, down at Council, and so on.

[Pete]

Way, way too many apartments -- mostly cheapos -- were built at 122nd & Penn and around QS in the 1980's, mainly because the economy went into a slump and there were lots more renters than home buyers and certainly nobody was building more retail and office space.

Just horrific lack of planning by the City of OKC which merely rubber-stamps anything people want to build without taking any sort of bigger picture view.


However, now that things are raging, new, quality development can start filling in a lot of the holes and start to overshadow the apartment ghettos.

[Spartan]

Way, way too many apartments -- mostly cheapos -- were built at 122nd & Penn and around QS in the 1980's, mainly because the economy went into a slump and there were lots more renters than home buyers and certainly nobody was building more retail and office space.

Just horrific lack of planning by the City of OKC which merely rubber-stamps anything people want to build without taking any sort of bigger picture view.


However, now that things are raging, new, quality development can start filling in a lot of the holes and start to overshadow the apartment ghettos.

Sprawl, segregated land use, poor bldg standards, and so on...just another day at the office for us...

I always wonder how the Quail Creek neighborhood is holding up. That was one of the finer square miles of the city before I went off for college...

[OKCisOK4me]

Way, way too many apartments -- mostly cheapos -- were built at 122nd & Penn and around QS in the 1980's, mainly because the economy went into a slump and there were lots more renters than home buyers and certainly nobody was building more retail and office space.

Just horrific lack of planning by the City of OKC which merely rubber-stamps anything people want to build without taking any sort of bigger picture view.


However, now that things are raging, new, quality development can start filling in a lot of the holes and start to overshadow the apartment ghettos.

I concur with this statement. Yeah, 122nd & Penn is bad but it's not NW 10th St, where there are empty run down apartments that homeless people take refuge in or vandals set ablaze. It's still a vibrant part of the city. I've lived in both Heritage Park and Highland Ridge. It's only scary for those of you that have never lived there. Never had anything stolen when I lived there and it's really about how you flaunt it. If you're blaring your stereo and living out loud, people take notice and do harm to you.

As for apartment lifestyle, there are tons of recently built rentals along the Memorial corridor that are not cheap and have increased the wealth in the area. With that said, there's plenty of $ to go around.

[OKCisOK4me]

Sprawl, segregated land use, poor bldg standards, and so on...just another day at the office for us...

I always wonder how the Quail Creek neighborhood is holding up. That was one of the finer square miles of the city before I went off for college...

It's still a fine neighborhood. Drove through very recently.

[Rover]

Sprawl, segregated land use, poor bldg standards, and so on...just another day at the office for us...

I always wonder how the Quail Creek neighborhood is holding up. That was one of the finer square miles of the city before I went off for college...

Quail Creek has held up fine but not the finest in the area. And, it covers more than a square mile when you factor in south Quail, the little brother of the two.

I thought part of modern urbanism promoted dense nodes throughout larger cities with already existing spread population. This is really kind of infill. There is a great deal of housing all around this area and if anything, this will pull people in from the fringes rather than keep pushing them out. This will be a very popular development. I personally know one of the developers of this and he runs a quality organization that tries to do the right things.

[Pete]

The newer stuff is all decent but almost everything built in the 80's is crap.

When will the City learn??

You think the Lyrewood area would have clearly demonstrated that that high of apartment concentration -- even in a good area -- will eventually go very far south.

When those Lyrewood apartments were built, PC schools were the best in the state and the neighborhood was quite good for a while. But then newer stuff was built further out (mainly along Memorial), those complexes took a big nose dive and that whole situation is a big reason why that area of town has gone way down hill.


When they first built those apartments at 122nd & Penn, I had a lot of friends that lived in them -- all professional types. But in less than two decades that whole area became dire and it seems to be getting worse all the time.

This sort of thing really erodes the quality of living in Oklahoma City yet absolutely no one takes any initiative to try and change our planning laws.

[PhiAlpha]

Quail Creek has held up fine but not the finest in the area. And, it covers more than a square mile when you factor in south Quail, the little brother of the two.

I thought part of modern urbanism promoted dense nodes throughout larger cities with already existing spread population. This is really kind of infill. There is a great deal of housing all around this area and if anything, this will pull people in from the fringes rather than keep pushing them out. This will be a very popular development. I personally know one of the developers of this and he runs a quality organization that tries to do the right things.

With 122nd as the dividing line, Quail Creek North (which contains the golf club) is still extremely nice, near or equivalent to Oak Tree in Edmond. Quail Creek South has slipped a little and has some rough spots, but overall is still pretty nice.

Before buying in Mesta Park last year, I looked in Quail Creek and that was my perception.

[Pete]

And the north half of QC North is in the Edmond school district, which helps considerably.

[Spartan]

Quail Creek has held up fine but not the finest in the area. And, it covers more than a square mile when you factor in south Quail, the little brother of the two.

I thought part of modern urbanism promoted dense nodes throughout larger cities with already existing spread population. This is really kind of infill. There is a great deal of housing all around this area and if anything, this will pull people in from the fringes rather than keep pushing them out. This will be a very popular development. I personally know one of the developers of this and he runs a quality organization that tries to do the right things.

Well then I look forward to the kind of development OKC needs here..

[bchris02]

The newer stuff is all decent but almost everything built in the 80's is crap.

When will the City learn??

You think the Lyrewood area would have clearly demonstrated that that high of apartment concentration -- even in a good area -- will eventually go very far south.

When those Lyrewood apartments were built, PC schools were the best in the state and the neighborhood was quite good for a while. But then newer stuff was built further out (mainly along Memorial), those complexes took a big nose dive and that whole situation is a big reason why that area of town has gone way down hill.


When they first built those apartments at 122nd & Penn, I had a lot of friends that lived in them -- all professional types. But in less than two decades that whole area became dire and it seems to be getting worse all the time.

This sort of thing really erodes the quality of living in Oklahoma City yet absolutely no one takes any initiative to try and change our planning laws.

What kind of changes would we need to see to prevent issues like what we are currently seeing at 122nd and Penn and the numerous other patches of ghetto in otherwise good development across the metro?

[OKCisOK4me]

What kind of changes would we need to see to prevent issues like what we are currently seeing at 122nd and Penn and the numerous other patches of ghetto in otherwise good development across the metro?

Pretty sure OKC isn't allowing crap like that to be built anymore and secondly, just can't have management companies come in and do nothing with their properties and also should raise rental rates and not allow Section 8 residents.

[stlokc]

My parents live in North Quail Creek and it hasn't gone downhill one iota. It's a strong neighborhood with the state's largest homeowners association. Quail Creek CC is thriving and Quail Creek Elementary is one of the very best, if not the best, traditional schools in the OKC Public School District. Not worried about Quail Creek, although the NW 122 corridor could use better, more uniform fences. Personal rant.

[bchris02]

Pretty sure OKC isn't allowing crap like that to be built anymore and secondly, just can't have management companies come in and do nothing with their properties and also should raise rental rates and not allow Section 8 residents.

I agree, but I don't think the city can legally force those apartment complex owners to raise their rent. I don't think there really is much that can be done at this point.

[Spartan]

Pretty sure OKC isn't allowing crap like that to be built anymore and secondly, just can't have management companies come in and do nothing with their properties and also should raise rental rates and not allow Section 8 residents.

First of all, do you really think we stopped building crap?!? Wow

Secondly, there are federal housing discrimination laws that prevent communities from codifying...housing discrimination (or else they would).

[bchris02]

First of all, do you really think we stopped building crap?!? Wow

Secondly, there are federal housing discrimination laws that prevent communities from codifying...housing discrimination (or else they would).

Even the worst stuff being built today is still well above what was being built in OKC back in the 1980s. One example: As bad as Belle Isle is compared to the standard in other cities, it definitely beats the West Park shopping center at 63rd and MacArthur.