Preftakes Block

[Larry OKC]

I love the bus station, and the Carpenter Square building. The bus station would make a great restaurant, with outdoor dining under the awnings. The other buildings, rehabbed, would be great for retail and/or restaurants. We've got all the Core to Shore land to build developments. Let's keep a small piece of our past, and create a great little destination area.

I agree, maybe turn the awnings into partial outside seating (of limited use considering our weather) and a drive in (maybe a Sonic or Coits)

[ljbab728]

lep - I don't think he will be tearing down the significant structures on that block. I agree with Pete - all the one and two story buildings are not long for this world.

What would be more innovative is if the one and two story buildings with interesting architecture could be incorporated into a new higher density development using just their facades. That would still give us a historical context for that area.

[Spartan]

No. What OKC tried before was 'tear it down and they will come". That is how we ended up with more acres of grass than any downtown in America.

"No, I disagree with saying that because that is what they said 40 years ago and they were already proven wrong."

Think harder, Kerry. Why reinvent the wheel? Why build higher when it's not needed? Do you realize how much vacant land there is downtown? Why should THESE buildings have to go for development? Furthermore, I can not think of any developments from around the world that I want on this block, and I say that with a straight face. I want this block to stay this block. It's a good block, it has so much potential if its buildings would just be used.

And no, new buildings wouldn't have the same character. This block is about as urban as it gets in OKC. It interacts with you. It's gritty and cool. You could put some money into it, renovate the buildings, and maintain the gritty and eclectic feel of this block, and that should be the goal. It doesn't need to be wiped out and replaced with bland-brand-new and shiny.

I do agree with you that you're not a preservationist. I wouldn't call yourself a "new urbanist" because that's the school of thought that solely thinks about suburban town centers and TOD. But you are a pretty good urbanist. You support the city code and I know your main mantra is density and land use. But I am a preservationist. I am also an urbanist, but more importantly, I see myself (and so do many others) as thinking more about the highest quality urban environment, not purely the tallest or biggest urban environment.

[Kerry]

I am not for the 'tallest' either. I would have rather seen Devon build 10 5-story buildings than a single 50 story building so long as they urban in design. I would like to see original buildings re-used also but right now what downtown needs is people living there. If tearing down a block of one and two story buildings and replacing them with 5 to 7 story apartments (or even 25 story residential building) does that then so be it.

[Spartan]

But they're not one and two story buildings. There aren't any one story buildings on that block. There is one building (Carpenter Square) that is two stories that I do feel passionately about saving. The others I feel passionately about saving are very significant buildings.

Do you think there's any way a new development has more character than these? These have that gritty Chicago look that OKC needs to preserve. This is one block that can easily become the nexus of the Arts District. Lofts, restaurants, bars, art galleries--these buildings would be perfect.

[betts]

But they're not one and two story buildings. There aren't any one story buildings on that block. There is one building (Carpenter Square) that is two stories that I do feel passionately about saving. The others I feel passionately about saving are very significant buildings.

Do you think there's any way a new development has more character than these? These have that gritty Chicago look that OKC needs to preserve. This is one block that can easily become the nexus of the Arts District. Lofts, restaurants, bars, art galleries--these buildings would be perfect.

I cannot agree more. The Carpenter Square building is a jewel. The rest could look great renovated and it has the perfect spacing for a mix of some sort of retail and restaurants. To lose it to some bland new development would be terrible. Again, we have all that Core to Shore land so close by that is crying for new development. Put it there.

[metro]

Carpenter Square is two stories? Sure doesn't look like it. Also the lunch box and bus station appear to be 1 story.

[USG'60]

I have been beating my brains out trying to remember the original tenent and name of what we are calling Carpenter Square Theater. Someone help me out.

[metro]

Go to page 2, post 36, first picture

[Kerry]

Well, the reality is that Mr. Preftakes owns these buildings and they aren't in Core to Shore. I am sure he will not be tearing down Hotel Black and the Auto Hotel building but I think every other building on that block will bite the dust sooner or later, and I am okay with that, so long as he puts something back on the site. Reuse, replace, or rebuild - I don't care which options he chooses so long as it is one of those 3. What I don't want is another park, open space, plaza, parking lot, or fountain.

[bluedogok]

I cannot agree more. The Carpenter Square building is a jewel. The rest could look great renovated and it has the perfect spacing for a mix of some sort of retail and restaurants. To lose it to some bland new development would be terrible. Again, we have all that Core to Shore land so close by that is crying for new development. Put it there.

There are some places in Boston that are leaving the exterior shell/facades and building mid-rise towers stepped behind the facade. Seems like that is something that could be done with the CST building.

[Kerry]

There are some places in Boston that are leaving the exterior shell/facades and building mid-rise towers stepped behind the facade. Seems like that is something that could be done with the CST building.

I saw a lot of this London - outside the building looked old but inside they were very modern. Once inside it was hard to believe how old the outside looked.

[Spartan]

I don't care what happens to Carpenter Square's building, but the facade needs to be preserved. That is all I care about. If you walk up and examine it in person you'll feel that way too. It's extremely ornate, very tactile, great Art Deco. It's one of our last treasures, and it needs to STAY there at Main and Hudson.

[Chicken In The Rough]

I once lived in a building in Toronto that blended the old and new. They built a 28 story apartment inside the shell of a 100-year old jazz club, and they did a beautiful job.



The same thing should be done with Carpenter Square. The shell of the building is beautiful and adds to the character of the neighborhood.

[Spartan]

I once lived in a building in Toronto that blended the old and new. They built a 28 story apartment inside the shell of a 100-year old jazz club, and they did a beautiful job.



The same thing should be done with Carpenter Square. The shell of the building is beautiful and adds to the character of the neighborhood.

These things only happen when you have a government with the cajones to enforce historic preservation. This will NEVER happen in OKC.

[Reno and Walker]

I don't care what happens to Carpenter Square's building, but the facade needs to be preserved. That is all I care about. If you walk up and examine it in person you'll feel that way too. It's extremely ornate, very tactile, great Art Deco. It's one of our last treasures, and it needs to STAY there at Main and Hudson.

Dollar General Store, The building is very very very ugly..

[Reno and Walker]

I cannot remember anything before that. Use to go there all the time back in the early 70's

[Spartan]

Dollar General Store, The building is very very very ugly..

You think it's ugly?

[Rover]

You think it's ugly?

As is, yes it is ugly. Maybe if somebody did some realistic renderings on how it can be rehabbed and how it might fit into an improved block maybe there would be more sentiment to keep it. Of course, I am unaware of any historical significance of the building. Does it have a notable past? Design history or significance other than a sparse amount of deco detail?

[Spartan]

I think the Carpenter Square bldg could make an awesome retail adaptation, it kind of reminds me of the UO on Mass Street in Lawrence. Not at all in style, but in form and uniqueness. It could look really edgy.

[UnFrSaKn]

Somehow I totally missed this thread. Over the past few months I've been studying everything and anything I can about the history of downtown and learning all the names of all the old buildings. I'm planning on doing some historical oriented video when it warms up, but it's just an idea. I've read almost everything on Doug's blog. I'm solidly in the camp of preserving what we have and making it work, rather than demolishing it. I've lived here my whole life, and I take it personally when there's discussion of destroying a part of my city's past. Destroying is the easy route. If everyone involved is open-minded enough, I'm positive there is a middle ground that everyone can agree on. What concerns me are folks who don't share the same sense of preservation of our city, no matter what grand things they envision. You can never buy back the lived-in look of buildings that have history etched on them, with any amount of money. One of the biggest jewels of the city that was lost is the Baum building, all because they wanted to straighten out Robinson Street. How stupid and shortsighted was that? Moving it would have cost too much money. If you keep tearing down old buildings, you will have a city with no character left. Walking through a downtown should be like a time machine to different era's and architectural styles. The greatest cities in the nation, you can visit the latest and greatest skyscraper with a 21st century style, and progress back (in some cities) to grand cathedrals of the 1700s. Shortsightedness over the past 40 years in the name of progress has taken enough already in my opinion.

[Kerry]

I would rather have a vibrant downtown than a living museum of urban decay.

[UnFrSaKn]

Buildings are only what people choose to make of them.

[betts]

Character is part of what makes a downtown vibrant. Variety makes a downtown vibrant. New sameness is what we have in the suburbs. Why do downtowns appeal to people? Older buildings with character co-mingled with new is far more visually appealing, IMO.

[UnFrSaKn]

At 6:06 on the latest construction video, there's a 10th floor garage view of the old Black Hotel and Motor Hotel.
5:09 for the Hightower.

http://vimeo.com/20227538

EDIT: Really, it includes Montgomery Ward and Main Place as well. The whole historical area there.

EDIT: 8:04 has the Carpenter Square Building.