General Urban Development

[betts]

The building I loved the most in Denver, when I used to walk downtown for school, was the Art Museum. I'd post a picture, but I'm not sure what my photobucket password is. So here's a link. I don't think the photo does it justice.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CCIQ9QEwAA

[UnFrSaKn]

I was going to mention this, but next week I'll be in Denver again. Other than 1999 Broadway and the Brown Hotel, anyone got suggestions on what to stop by downtown? I only went down there once and it was around midnight. I won't be in town long.

[Spartan]

Anyone else wish there were more traditional architecture designs in new buildings?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...176535&page=16

I had to click off of that thread when I saw a picture of a real fire station that was recently built...

But definitely check out 16th Street! For an idea of what C2S could possibly be, check out the Central Platte Valley.

[ljbab728]

The building I loved the most in Denver, when I used to walk downtown for school, was the Art Museum. I'd post a picture, but I'm not sure what my photobucket password is. So here's a link. I don't think the photo does it justice.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CCIQ9QEwAA

Betts, I hope that photo doesn't do it justice. It looks like a jail. LOL

[ljbab728]

I had to click off of that thread when I saw a picture of a real fire station that was recently built...

But definitely check out 16th Street! For an idea of what C2S could possibly be, check out the Central Platte Valley.

Spartan, I'm not disagreeing but don't forget this recent quote:

"I'm growing weary of posts that follow the mold of...

THIS is what OKC needs to do!
[insert out of state development here] "

[CaseyCornett]

I think this is the first time I've agreed with ljbab728...

[UnFrSaKn]

We've still got a long ways to go.



I only had an hour to walk ten blocks up Broadway, then back down. I parked on a meter that actually took cards! How is it, the home of the parking meter, and we don't have these?
I also kept looking for the button on the lights to get a cross signal, then realized they're all automated... totally felt like a country bumpkin.
As I mentioned, I got the Brown Palace Hotel and 1999 Broadway and the church next to it. There's a much more beautiful church off Pennsylvania and Colfax but didn't have time.

The "Sports Authority" building blew my mind when I walked down the street and saw it for the first time.

[Doug Loudenback]

The "stop" frame makes me cry out, "Baum Building ... where art thou?" It's a beautiful video but one full of sadness of Oklahoma Citians when we see so vividly what COULD have been done here instead of what was. Very very sad. I'm glad that Denver got it right.

Did you attend a Thunder game during your trip? Was it great?

[UnFrSaKn]

No, I was only in town for a few days. Will be back in August for a wedding.

[SkyWestOKC]

I've seen a few parking meters that take cards in downtown.

[UnFrSaKn]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dplwesternhistory/page18/

[metro]

I think this is the first time I've agreed with ljbab728...

LOL, me too...

[Kerry]

You are right Larry, height has nothing to do with urban/suburban. It has to do with how the space around the building. Urban buildings define the empty space and suburban building are in the middle of empty space. Sandridge has made all the space around them empty - ergo - suburban. 99% of London is under 5 stories and nearly every square inch of it is urban.

[Rover]

Rover, what I meant in saying it was more appropriate in a suburban setting had nothing to do with the height of the building but the plazas, surface parking lots etc surrounding it (much like the other tower office buildings along NW Expressway. Sandridge is tearing down the urban buildings around it. All I am saying, if that is the look they want, build it where it is more appropriate rather than destroying what little urban fabric we have left.

They are putting surface parking there? I guess I missed that.

I think height is more associated with urban core and less with suburban. It adds to the density, of course. Urban is not just one criteria. A downtown of one story buildings built to the sidewalk wouldn't necessarily be a hallmark of "urban".

[Larry OKC]

Rover: you missed the "plazas" I mentioned right before the surface parking part...

[Kerry]

Urban is not just one criteria. A downtown of one story buildings built to the sidewalk wouldn't necessarily be a hallmark of "urban".

It just about would yes. For some reason you keep trying to associate 'urban' with 'height'. The two have nothing to do with each other. Burj Khalifa is the tallest building world (in a city with dozens of building exceeding 1,000 feet in height) but it isn't urban. You aren't going to walk from Burj Khalifa to anywhere else, it is too far. Downtown Norman is more urban than Dubai.

This is not urban - it is suburban. None of those building define the empty space between them. The buildings are all sitting in open space. In fact, people think Dubai is urban for the very reason it is actully suburban - because the buildings look out of place.



If the picture on the left was all one story building, and the one on the right were all 500' buildings, which would be more urban?

[Rover]

It just about would yes. For some reason you keep trying to associate 'urban' with 'height'. The two have nothing to do with each other. Burj Khalifa is the tallest building world (in a city with dozens of building exceeding 1,000 feet in height) but it isn't urban. You aren't going to walk from Burj Khalifa to anywhere else, it is too far. Downtown Norman is more urban than Dubai.

I doubt you've spent time in Dubai then, as I have. To say Norman is more urban is inane and injures credibility. Dubai is much more urban than OKC and many cities in the US. In fact, I worked on that project a little with SOM (the designer) in Chicago. You probably don't know the master plan for it. There are almost 200 mid and high-rises planned for the immediate surrounding area with density that rivals Chicago or NYC. You can't look at a still and think you've seen the movie.




As for the Medieval illustration, it is a over simplistic representation of more complex issues. I doubt we want to hold up Medieval cities as the ideal for modern urban requirements. They also had horrible transportation systems for today's use, overcrowding led to quickly spreading epidemics, etc., etc. Today's urban areas have much different requirements and expectations from its citizens.

[Kerry]

When you look at that picture you just posted, which part is more urban, the houses or the tall buildings?

This is what the tall buildings look like when you view it from above. Does all that open space around the buildings define the buildings, or do the buildings define the open space? Both pcitures are taken from the same place, just at different altitudes.

[Rover]

Honestly, I don't know why you aren't understanding. When you look at that picture you just posted, which part is more urban, the houses or the tall buildings? (Both pcitures are taken from the same place, just at different altitudes)

This is what the tall buildings look like when you view it from above. Does all that open space around the buildings define the buildings, or do the buildings define the open space?

You should actually go see and experience it. By your definition of urban even, most Middle Eastern cities are way more urban than OKC anyway. Anyone can take a micro view and anyone can be a Google expert. But that is like reading Wine Spectator and thinking yourself a wine expert vs actually drinking and finding the fine wines you enjoy. Sometimes to appreciate what you are reading about you have to actually TASTE to put it in context and to give it reality.

[Kerry]

When you were in Dubai did you drive from place to place or walk?

[Architect2010]

It is true, yes, most middle-eastern cities are more urban than OKC, and have an abundance of history and culture to top it off. But I don't need to visit when I have access to a plethora of opinion, fact, reference material, and everything else I need to know about Dubai. You do not walk in that city, even aside from summers that are much more intense than ours. Their streets are boulevards, their boulevards are highways, and their highways are some double-digit lane nightmares. Dubai, outside from its historic core, is incredibly auto-centric and unless a particular super development has been planned to embrace urban design, is also very unsustainable. The city that the world knows today as Dubai was [mostly] designed for the automobile and not pedestrian.

There's a clear disconnect from Dubai's flashy architecture and its short-sighted planning practices.

[Rover]

When you were in Dubai did you drive from place to place or walk?

Within the last few years. In many neighborhoods we walk, and I usually have a driver. But, sometimes I'm lazy or don't know where I am going. LOL.

[Rover]

It is true, yes, most middle-eastern cities are more urban than OKC, and have an abundance of history and culture to top it off. But I don't need to visit when I have access to a plethora of opinion, fact, reference material, and everything else I need to know about Dubai. You do not walk in that city, even aside from summers that are much more intense than ours. Their streets are boulevards, their boulevards are highways, and their highways are some double-digit lane nightmares. Dubai, outside from its historic core, is incredibly auto-centric and unless a particular super development has been planned to embrace urban design, is also very unsustainable. The city that the world knows today as Dubai was [mostly] designed for the automobile and not pedestrian.

There's a clear disconnect from Dubai's flashy architecture and its short-sighted planning practices.

Actually, there is a lot of opportunity to walk. Most of the year is not oppressively hot and I don't suggest going about 3 months of the year. However, your point is well taken about the modern streets, boulevards and highways. Much money is spent on the signature buildings and they like for them to be shown off. I do disagree about the "short sighted"ness. If fact, I think it is the fact they are planning WAY too far out and much more grandiose that makes it hard for them to achieve the real potential for world class urbanization. In China they often think too near in and create transportation systems, etc. that are overtaxed by the time they open. The Khalifa's have great vision, but sometimes lack reality in how quickly or how much will happen. Therefore, like OKC, they wind up with undeveloped gaps...ours from tearing down for ambitious plans and they for making space for big plans that take a long time to fill.

And, as for visiting vs. research, I do not condemn research. But to truly know about something I think you must ultimately experience it and observe for yourself. Archaeologists go on digs. Wine connoisseurs visit wineries and go on tasting tours.

[Kerry]

Wasn't walking so much better than having to drive?

[Rover]

Wasn't walking so much better than having to drive?

Not necessarily. I like having a driver. LOL