The LFL is coming to OKC

[Kerry]

OKCMallen - I think you need to do a little research on the past expansions plans of the LFL and not just take the word of the guy running the organization. They don't have a good track record of placing any of their expansions teams, and several teams have already folded or moved in a league that is only 2 years old. If you want to look at this as pure sports/business deal (and leave the uniform out of it) then it is bad deal, from a poorly managed league, with a bad track record. I think OKC has passed the point where we need to jump at every opportunity that comes along. We can be a little discerning, can we not?

[TaoMaas]

This thread is not about OSU.

Okay...I laughed even though I like OSU. But it's looking like this joke won't be funny much longer. The Pokes are looking damned good!

[soonerguru]

OKCMallen - I think you need to do a little research on the past expansions plans of the LFL and not just take the word of the guy running the organization. They don't have a good track record of placing any of their expansions teams, and several teams have already folded or moved in a league that is only 2 years old. If you want to look at this as pure sports/business deal (and leave the uniform out of it) then it is bad deal, from a poorly managed league, with a bad track record. I think OKC has passed the point where we need to jump at every opportunity that comes along. We can be a little discerning, can we not?

Can you provide a link or some information to back this up? Just curious. Why would we trust you more than the director of the league?

[Kerry]

Las Vegas, Nashville, San Jose, Houston, Columbus, and New Orleans (among others) were all supposed to be playing this season. Some teams even had tryouts. None of them ever played a down. Nashville couldn't even hire a coach.


Even as recently as November 4th (just 12 days ago) Houston thought their team was a go. Yet, 2 weeks into the season and no Houston team.

Here is one example:
http://www.vegasdeluxe.com/blogs/lux...am-las-vegas-/

The team in New York City moved to Pennsylvania - and then promptly folded. The league is a train wreck.

[soonerguru]

Las Vegas, Nashville, San Jose, Houston, Columbus, and New Orleans (among others) were all supposed to be playing this season. Some teams even had tryouts. None of them ever played a down. Nashville couldn't even hire a coach.


Even as recently as November 4th (just 12 days ago) Houston thought their team was a go. Yet, 2 weeks into the season and no Houston team.

Here is one example:
http://www.vegasdeluxe.com/blogs/lux...am-las-vegas-/

The team in New York City moved to Pennsylvania - and then promptly folded. The league is a train wreck.

Did you read the link? It talks about an "incredibly successful" inaugural season.

[Kerry]

Did you read the link? It talks about an "incredibly successful" inaugural season.

Hello, is thing on? That is what I am saying. Stop listen to the league rhetoric and focus on results, or in this case, lack of results. The team in Las Vegas was supposed to start playing 2 weeks ago. Yet - no team took the field. Incredibly successful my a$$. The dude running the show is a used car salesman.

[OKCMallen]

OKCMallen - I think you need to do a little research on the past expansions plans of the LFL and not just take the word of the guy running the organization. They don't have a good track record of placing any of their expansions teams, and several teams have already folded or moved in a league that is only 2 years old. If you want to look at this as pure sports/business deal (and leave the uniform out of it) then it is bad deal, from a poorly managed league, with a bad track record. I think OKC has passed the point where we need to jump at every opportunity that comes along. We can be a little discerning, can we not?

How on earth can it be a bad deal for an outside entity to rent public/arena space? You're not making a heck of a lot of sense. How is their financial viability as defined by your opinion, an important facotr in whether or not they should be allowed to do business in our city?

The sheer fact that you think you, or anyone else, should deny a business entity to pass through the threshold to do business in OKC is at once both maddening and depressing.

Do we want progressive business standards? Do we want progressive social standards? Do we want to attract/keep young, intelligent talent in the area? Do we want to attract and foster business growth in OKC? You don't do that by acting like Mick did in this instance. "Sorry, we're just too conservative for that. You're not welcome here."

Your opinion on this matter leads me to this statement: You're part of the problem.

[Spartan]

Ljbab--you're right that LFL isn't going to make anyone move to Oklahoma on its own, aside from people that actually work for the LFL franchise or whatever. But every little bit helps. Every little thing, whether it be the Plaza District third Fridays, Paseo art walk weekends, Bricktown, the Flaming Lips, deadCENTER film festival, the LFL, whatever--that puts forth the image we want of OKC being a city with a little of unique, hip things going on.

I wasn't trying to get you to say anything other than the truth. I have often said if there was a 'Pick up Sticks' league I would want a team in OKC. I like the spirit of competition as well. However, I suspect many people that want the LFL could care less about competition. They don't care which team is on the field so long as they are wearing minimal clothing. Even the names suggested by potential season ticket holders were all sexual in nature which tells me I am correct about my assumption. Not one person suggest Wranglers, Twisters, Energy, Calvary, or similar name. It was all innuendo.

Why should the city provide a venue for the carnal satisfaction of a small group of people? The line has to be drawn somewhere and I think on one side of the line is competition and entertainment and on the other side of the line is lust. Make no mistake; most of the people wanting the LFL are in it for the lust. If I am wrong, let's throw full uniforms on those women and see how many people show up.

You're just upset about the possibility of showing some cleavage, Kerry. The point is that they don't have full uniforms on. And isn't appealing to some base human feeling the entire point of sports? If it's not all about carnal hunting and testosterone then what is sports about? (And don't say sportsmanship lol) I wonder how Freud would analyze this dialogue..

[Kerry]

Spartan and OKCMallen - this debate can be waged on two angles (three really).

1. Is the LFL a stable league that will improve the image of OKC?
2. Is the LFL a reputable form of entertainment?
3. Is the City required to make the arena available to anyone that wants it?

I think the answer to all three of those questions is No. What is the big deal? So you like to look at women wearing minimal clothing, big whoop. Where is it written you get to do so in a City building? If the LFL is such a great product there are other suitable venues. They could try State Fair Arena, Lazy E, OCU, UCO, OU, OCCC, or anyone with a 50 yard field (the games in LA are played outside).

[Doug Loudenback]

Personally, whether we males get the perk of watching girls in their skivies play football or not (or the gals who might be similarly inclined), I enjoyed reading the take by Nick in his blog, http://downtownontherange.blogspot.c...s-crusade.html ... but that's just me. Is the mayor posturing himself for greater and bigger things as a "family values" religious right conservative? He wouldn't be the first to exploit that platform. I'd like to think that our mayor is bigger and better than that, though ... and I hope that he is.

[Kerry]

Well it doesn't matter anyhow, the LFL isn't coming to OKC, or anywhere else for that matter. Let's just wait and see how many teams are in this league next year and if any of the other 3 expansion mentioned along with OKC even field a team.

[dmoor82]

Die thread die!!!!!!!

[metro]

Die thread die!!!!!!!

Amen.

[Matt]

If there's a thread you're tired of seeing, by far the very best way to make it go away as quickly as possible is to keep posting in it. 60% of the time, it works every time.

[OKCMallen]

Spartan and OKCMallen - this debate can be waged on two angles (three really).

1. Is the LFL a stable league that will improve the image of OKC?
2. Is the LFL a reputable form of entertainment?
3. Is the City required to make the arena available to anyone that wants it?

I think the answer to all three of those questions is No. What is the big deal? So you like to look at women wearing minimal clothing, big whoop. Where is it written you get to do so in a City building? If the LFL is such a great product there are other suitable venues. They could try State Fair Arena, Lazy E, OCU, UCO, OU, OCCC, or anyone with a 50 yard field (the games in LA are played outside).

You're oversimplifying the issue to such a degree that you're not even speaking the correct language to discuss. It would take an hour at Tapwerks and several beers to get you to the same foundation that some of us share.

[Kerry]

You're oversimplifying the issue to such a degree that you're not even speaking the correct language to discuss. It would take an hour at Tapwerks and several beers to get you to the same foundation that some of us share.

I'll tell you what, I'll got to Tapwerks for beer if you come with me to church.

The funny thing is, I don't even oppose the LFL on moral grounds (although I could). I look at it from a business stand point. The last thing OKC needs right now is to hitch its wagon to a fly by night scheme that produces lots of media attention but little results. Live by the press hype, die by the press hype. If the LFL is still around in 2 years you can call me wrong.

[soonerguru]

I'll tell you what, I'll got to Tapwerks for beer if you come with me to church.

The funny thing is, I don't even oppose the LFL on moral grounds (although I could). I look at it from a business stand point. The last thing OKC needs right now is to hitch its wagon to a fly by night scheme that produces lots of media attention but little results. Live by the press hype, die by the press hype. If the LFL is still around in 2 years you can call me wrong.

Who cares? It makes no diff to OKC if the league fails or not -- or the team. That would be the league/owner's problem, not ours.

Did you really think arena football was going to be huge?

Do you think every event destined for the fairgrounds will be big?

Of course not. If the city doesn't have money on the line, it's no big deal. It's not the job of the mayor or city council to go about picking winners and losers. That will be determined by market dynamics.

The only type of failure that would adversely affect the city's rep would be if the Thunder went under (unintentionally rhyming). That would actually be a disaster for the city's PR.

The failure, however, of a start-up team in a start-up league would have no long term ill effect on the city or its citizens.

Quit dancing around the key issue here: Cornett should have kept his mouth shut.

[Kerry]

Quit dancing around the key issue here: Cornett should have kept his mouth shut.

I'll agree with that. The city should have done what they did with the Satanic worshipers who rented another city building. Let them come, and then let them go quitely into the night. The idea fails all on it own.

[kevinpate]

FWIW, it's always fun when a thread outlasts a business plan.

[Kerry]

Some Business Plan

Step 1 - Announce expansion in OKC
Step 2 - never mind, the Mayor said no. I guess we will do something else.

I'm not sure how much thought, research, and effort the LFL put into their expansion plans. You think Step 1 would have been contacting the city before an public announcement was made. There are more cities who were 'granted' an expansion team and didn't field a team, then there are teams in the league. Not a good track record. BTW - the LFL plays on Fridays nights which are key nights for the NBA, AHL, and concerts so giving up those nights is big deal. The city does have a vested interest in keeping those dates open.

[TaoMaas]

Pffftt...if this is the route we want to go, I think OKC would be better off going back to allowing totally nude lap-dances. IMHO, it appeals to the same mind-set, but puts us in a more specialized crowd.

[BDP]

There was one simple answer to all of this: make them pay in advance. If the checked cleared, bring 'em on.

I don't care one bit about the LFL, but if all entertainment wanting to book city venues has to pass some arbitrary moral code, then we have a problem. It does send the message that if you want to book OKC, you may have to live up to some unwritten code. Should the booking agent of Lady Gaga, Madonna, Britney Spears, etc. have to worry about whether the mayor approves in the future? That's sort of unclear now.

[Kerry]

There was one simple answer to all of this: make them pay in advance. If the checked cleared, bring 'em on.

I don't care one bit about the LFL, but if all entertainment wanting to book city venues has to pass some arbitrary moral code, then we have a problem. It does send the message that if you want to book OKC, you may have to live up to some unwritten code. Should the booking agent of Lady Gaga, Madonna, Britney Spears, etc. have to worry about whether the mayor approves in the future? That's sort of unclear now.

So you are in favor of OKC hosting the American Pedophile and Child Molester National Convention so long as the check clears? What about an OKC team in the World Orgy League? BTW - those tour groups you mentioned don't require a lease agreement with city. Rental agreement maybe, but not a lease. The LFL would require a lease.

[mack1520]

Guess Kerry couldn't save the sermon until Sunday morning...

First, I'm really not getting the comparison of a pedophile and child molester convention to the LFL. The first would be composed of people that perpetrate crimes against children while the other is made up of a group of women that like to play sports in bathing suits. Don't really see the moral equivalency there, but apparently Kerry does.

Second, other than not knowing how the scoring system works in the orgy league, I'm really not seeing a big problem. Why is it anyones business what two (or more) consenting adults do?

I'm sure Kerry and mayor Mick can tell me why I'm going to burn in hell for these beliefs, but oh well...

[Kerry]

Guess Kerry couldn't save the sermon until Sunday morning...

First, I'm really not getting the comparison of a pedophile and child molester convention to the LFL. The first would be composed of people that perpetrate crimes against children while the other is made up of a group of women that like to play sports in bathing suits. Don't really see the moral equivalency there, but apparently Kerry does.

Second, other than not knowing how the scoring system works in the orgy league, I'm really not seeing a big problem. Why is it anyones business what two (or more) consenting adults do?

I'm sure Kerry and mayor Mick can tell me why I'm going to burn in hell for these beliefs, but oh well...

The point I was trying to make with child molesters is to see if BDP was opposed to any line, or if he just felt the LFL wasn't across it. Is there a line the city should not cross or are we haggling about the placement of the line. It is really very simple. If you say No, the city should not field a team in the World Orgy League then we can talk about moral relativism. If you say Yes, the city should have a team in the World Orgy League then the discussion is over, we will never agree.

Alas, my opposition to the LFL is not based on moral grounds. I am opposed to the LFL because it is a 3rd rate, fly by night, poorly run league who is requesting a lease for prime dates at the City’s premier venues.