Embassy Suites

[HangryHippo]

And what might that be? We haven't heard a thing about possibilities beyond the hotel...

[onthestrip]

I just guessed based on how much of the site was covered by a revenue producing building. Feel free to pick whatever percentage you think it looks like. Previous to this development it didn't produce much revenue to the owner, but it did produce property taxes with little to no expense to the city. Now the streets around it will see more traffic, it will need additional resources for police and fire, the sewer pipes in the area will see increased flow, etc... How much did it cost the city to improve the two blocks of N Phillips Ave and how long will it take the City to recoup that money in additional taxes. If the city loses money on every transaction it can't make up for it volume -it can only be made for in higher taxes.

The building looks to take up much more than 10%. Also, this will have little impact on city services costs. It is surrounded by existing infill, how would this require so much more from the city in expenses? Sewer pipes will see increased flow...how does that cost the city more? I think you are reaching.

While I would love every new development to be more urban in desing, its just not feasible. Im sure if OCURA required structured parking, this project would simply not happen.

[Just the facts]

How about just eliminate the parking requirements and let them build how many parking spaces they think they need.

[catch22]

Or build the parking in the back. Same building just arrange the pieces different.

[heyerdahl]

Given the location, I doubt that area was a significant property tax generator that will be greatly missed. .

It's not about what is currently there vs. what is proposed. It is about the opportunity cost of a significant development missing a chance to start building for walkability in this part of downtown. This site is just blocks away from Deep Deuce where walkable urbanism is the new standard.

In a lot of cases, it would make sense for visitors at this hotel to walk to the clinics or patient rooms they are visiting. Parking at the medical district is not the easiest thing in the world and you still have to walk after finding parking. But if the design of this hotel communicates that the guests are in a driving environment (it does) then they will try to drive.

It really is as simple as building a better sidewalk with street trees, anchoring the corner of the intersection with the structure, and putting the surface parking behind the structure. Sends an entirely different message to would-be pedestrians.

[BoulderSooner]

It's not about what is currently there vs. what is proposed. It is about the opportunity cost of a significant development missing a chance to start building for walkability in this part of downtown. This site is just blocks away from Deep Deuce where walkable urbanism is the new standard.

In a lot of cases, it would make sense for visitors at this hotel to walk to the clinics or patient rooms they are visiting. Parking at the medical district is not the easiest thing in the world and you still have to walk after finding parking. But if the design of this hotel communicates that the guests are in a driving environment (it does) then they will try to drive.

It really is as simple as building a better sidewalk with street trees, anchoring the corner of the intersection with the structure, and putting the surface parking behind the structure. Sends an entirely different message to would-be pedestrians.

it is across an interstate highway .. from deep deuce .. lets not act like it is next door

[Plutonic Panda]

Or build the parking in the back. Same building just arrange the pieces different.

Why couldn't they build an attached parking garage, move the building much MUCH closer to the road and allow for 2-4 more developments on the property? They could all use the parking garage. One section is dedicated to the hotel and the rest for the "other" people....

[Plutonic Panda]

it is across an interstate highway .. from deep deuce .. lets not act like it is next door

Wouldn't a pedestrian bridge fix that?

[HangryHippo]

Why is the hotel so long? Can't they make it shorter, push it to the corner and make it about 10 stories?

[Mississippi Blues]

And what might that be? We haven't heard a thing about possibilities beyond the hotel...

I wouldn't really question it much. Steve doesn't hint at things unless he solidly believes something will happen.

[heyerdahl]

it is across an interstate highway .. from deep deuce .. lets not act like it is next door

6 blocks from Block 42, or a 10 minute walk, using the 4th Street underpass.

But then again the new OIPA building already set this auto-oriented site design precedent at 4th and Lincoln even though their employees could comfortably walk to Deep Deuce Grill or the Wedge for lunch within 10 minutes.

[catch22]

it is across an interstate highway .. from deep deuce .. lets not act like it is next door

If you build walkable areas on both sides, eventually you will have crossover traffic and the highway won't be that huge of barrier especially with some basic improvements on the underpass...signage, lighting, etc.

[betts]

I agree that you can walk to HSC from Deep Deuce, as I've done it. Also, there is a shuttle that stops at the parking garage on 7th-8th and Lincoln and I suspect it will stop at the Embassy Suites as well. But there is a sidewalk too.

[Just the facts]

You can walk to Oregon. The trick is making the walk a pleasant and inviting trip by scaling the street to the human. The more unpleasant the walk the great the destination has to be. Don't provide enough of either and people will drive.

[BoulderSooner]

You can walk to Oregon. The trick is making the walk a pleasant and inviting trip by scaling the street to the human. The more unpleasant the walk the great the destination has to be. Don't provide enough of either and people will drive.

or if it is 100+ people will drive or if it is below 40 people will drive or if it is raining people will drive .. ...ect

[Just the facts]

or if it is 100+ people will drive or if it is below 40 people will drive or if it is raining people will drive .. ...ect

I have walked in +100 and the rain, but I have never walked in -40. I think the coldest I ever walked in was probably around 0. I guess people today just aren't made of the same 'stuff' people used to be made with. I don't know how they did it for the first 5,000 years of permanent settlements. I actually enjoy walking in the rain.

[catch22]

or if it is 100+ people will drive or if it is below 40 people will drive or if it is raining people will drive .. ...ect

How on earth do people walk in Miami during the summer, Chicago in the winter, or Seattle anytime of year?

[HangryHippo]

Probably not, Sid. OU seems to hate parking garages. More lots!

[jedicurt]

Probably not, Sid. OU seems to hate parking garages. More lots!

+ this.... when i was working for OU on the Research Campus in Norman, there were several attempts during different planning meetings to look at a parking garage solution for the research campus rather than building 50 car lots for every new building that goes up... and every time, the ideas were immediately shot down because the cost was so much more, blah blah blah... Sure the cost is more, but if that research campus has perhaps two large parking garages rather than all of the lots, they could do so much more with the land...

[HangryHippo]

+ this.... when i was working for OU on the Research Campus in Norman, there were several attempts during different planning meetings to look at a parking garage solution for the research campus rather than building 50 car lots for every new building that goes up... and every time, the ideas were immediately shot down because the cost was so much more, blah blah blah... Sure the cost is more, but if that research campus has perhaps two large parking garages rather than all of the lots, they could do so much more with the land...

Exactly. That is one area OU could really, really stand to improve. Or when I was a student at the dorms and they were always having trouble with the parking, why couldn't they build a garage to the west of the cafeteria and staff a booth so that it was only used appropriately? I know the construction costs can be higher, but damn, sometimes it's just worth it.

[BoulderSooner]

+ this.... when i was working for OU on the Research Campus in Norman, there were several attempts during different planning meetings to look at a parking garage solution for the research campus rather than building 50 car lots for every new building that goes up... and every time, the ideas were immediately shot down because the cost was so much more, blah blah blah... Sure the cost is more, but if that research campus has perhaps two large parking garages rather than all of the lots, they could do so much more with the land...

when they even get close to running out of the land they can then build parking garages ... currently there is plenty of land (at low cost) one of the great things about Oklahoma

[kevinpate]

... Sure the cost is more, but if that research campus has perhaps two large parking garages rather than all of the lots, they could do so much more with the land...

But if they do more with the land, then they need more parking, and since they used the land, that means bigger parking garages. It's a vicious, never ending cycle, especially for folk who do seem near scared silly about such critters, lol. It's a wonder to me still they manage to build the one at the stadium.

[BoulderSooner]

How on earth do people walk in Miami during the summer, Chicago in the winter, or Seattle anytime of year?

lots of people don't ... but either way parking is a much bigger issue in chicago and to a lesser extent miami .. it is not an issue in OKC

[catch22]

lots of people don't ... but either way parking is a much bigger issue in chicago and to a lesser extent miami .. it is not an issue in OKC

Parking is an issue in those places because they put pedestrians first in their downtowns and limit parking and auto-centric designs. Make walking easy and people will walk, make driving easy and people will drive. This development belongs on memorial road.

[Just the facts]

Although I was a city planner for only a short time (and not in OKC), every project I worked on except one always tried to get a variance to reduce the number of parking spaces required. That one excepion was WalMart who built 2X the amount of parking required (although they did get a variance for the size of the parking space). They were required to be 10’X20’ but they were allowed 10’X18’ if they put landscaping in the parking lot. The theory was the car pulled forward until the front tires touched the curb which caused the car to hang over the landscaping by 2 feet.