Homeless Population

[Just the facts]

Well, all the programs are only funded for 1 year so not sure what 2 years will be like.

Food for thought.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...policies-fail/

[Plutonic Panda]

Is there a possibility this will attract homeless people from other cities that won’t build housing and just send them to cities that will?

[Bunty]

Oklahoma should raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $12.00 so the homeless can see that working for a living is worth it. For the homeless that disagree with that, then they should be offered free mental health care, including drug addiction treatment.

[Bunty]

Is there a possibility this will attract homeless people from other cities that won’t build housing and just send them to cities that will?

Yes, it will so only people who have been locally homeless for a year or two should be eligible.

[Plutonic Panda]

A city program to pay them to clean up trash and litter would be cool.

[BoulderSooner]

Oklahoma should raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $12.00 so the homeless can see that working for a living is worth it. For the homeless that disagree with that, then they should be offered free mental health care, including drug addiction treatment.

the effective min wage is really over 10 an hour ..

[Rover]

Oklahoma should raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $12.00 so the homeless can see that working for a living is worth it. For the homeless that disagree with that, then they should be offered free mental health care, including drug addiction treatment.

Wage is just a part. Many can't get and keep a job. For instance, you can't get a job in food service dealing with customers or food hygiene if you have no place to bathe and you come to work in dirty or ragged clothing because you have no place to wash or keep your clothing, or you have no decent clothing. And, if you have been out of the work force for some time, or you have even moderate mental health problems you may not be able to work modern electronic devices or follow moderately precise procedures. Employers want employees ready to go to work, who have the personal behavior and hygiene to be amongst other employees and/or customers, and who can be trained starting from a reasonable skill level. In many jobs, communications skills is essential to not alienate, or to help customers.

With basic menial labor jobs, employees need to come to work having had a reasonably decent ability to sleep and recuperate from the previous day's work and with enough nourishment to have energy and focus to do a job. Even working basic labor jobs can be dangerous to themselves, their co-workers and the public if they haven't had enough sleep and food to keep them mentally sharp enough to do the job.

The idea that raising min wage can just get them back to work is very idealistic. This problem takes a wholistic approach to be solved.

[Pete]

Jobs and pay levels have almost zero to do with the homeless situation.

There are tons of available jobs right now but almost none of this population is employable due to mental health and addiction issues.

[Celebrator]

What's our timeline to implement the Houston-inspired plan here?

[Pete]

What's our timeline to implement the Houston-inspired plan here?

2 years.

[Just the facts]

Jobs and pay levels have almost zero to do with the homeless situation.

There are tons of available jobs right now but almost none of this population is employable due to mental health and addiction issues.

Exactly! Getting a job isn't even the problem because there are many businesses that get tax credits for hiring the homeless. The problem is they can't keep the job.

My son worked at a car wash while in high school and his homeless coworkers came to work drunk, high, or otherwise impaired if they showed up at all. Then they wouldn't follow directions or operating procedures, and then would eventually get caught stealing items from people's cars.

If you can't work at a car wash you are 100% incapable of working anywhere.

[aegisdodd]

Jobs and pay levels have almost zero to do with the homeless situation.

There are tons of available jobs right now but almost none of this population is employable due to mental health and addiction issues.

This is a pretty confident assertion. Any data or citations to back this up?

[Pete]

This is a pretty confident assertion. Any data or citations to back this up?

It's based on 7 years of running a homeless outreach program.

Did you read the OKC plan or about the one in Houston? Jobs are barely mentioned.

[aegisdodd]

It's based on 7 years of running a homeless outreach program.

Did you read the OKC plan or about the one in Houston? Jobs are barely mentioned.

Respectfully, I am not referring to the plan or whether jobs are part of it. I'm just asking if there are any data or citations to backup your assertion that "jobs and pay levels have almost zero to do with the homeless situation." I've seen your other assertion that "studies show that almost everyone on the street is there due to mental health and/or addiction problems." Anecdotes such as your experience running an outreach program are fine for illustrating a point, but, without concrete data to back it up, I have a hard time accepting when I see that we have an affordable housing crisis. In my opinion, pay levels play a more than "almost zero" part of this very complex issue that includes access to mental health care and lack of affordable housing. I've heard about other studies that show that a fairly significant portion of homeless that have jobs but cannot afford their own housing. Not everyone who is homeless lives on the streets, shelter, or in a homeless camp. I'm trying to understand the bigger picture.

[Canoe]

Yes, it will so only people who have been locally homeless for a year or two should be eligible.

Some sort of homeless registry with ID checks?

[Pete]

^

We have been discussing the people living on the streets and the impact on our community. The Houston and OKC plans are about resolving that issue, i.e. getting people off the street and into housing as the first priority.

That's what I was addressing in regard to jobs.

[king183]

Here's a good, in-depth story about Houston's success reducing the homeless population.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/h...ss-people.html

In addition to the things others have mentioned, it appears the key to Houston's success was getting all the community organizations that work on or touch on homeless services to work together and reduce unnecessary, inefficient overlap and align with a singular goal. In my experience, that's extremely difficult to do, but Houston shows it can be done. I have experience working with some of OKC's community organizations and, in general, I would say the willingness to cooperate with each other is there, though there are some "turf wars" attitude, which is inevitable in this space and with people who really care about the work they are doing.

[TheTravellers]

Here's a good, in-depth story about Houston's success reducing the homeless population.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/h...ss-people.html

In addition to the things others have mentioned, it appears the key to Houston's success was getting all the community organizations that work on or touch on homeless services to work together and reduce unnecessary, inefficient overlap and align with a singular goal. In my experience, that's extremely difficult to do, but Houston shows it can be done. I have experience working with some of OKC's community organizations and, in general, I would say the willingness to cooperate with each other is there, though there are some "turf wars" attitude, which is inevitable in this space and with people who really care about the work they are doing.

Didn't MAPS4 have a part of it that was intended to do this exact thing - bring groups together to coordinate and work on a holistic approach?

[soonerguru]

I'm very excited to see OKC launch the new homeless initiative announced this week. Getting the person who helped Houston involved was a masterstroke.

I know we often complain about Oklahoma government -- and for good reason; it is atrocious -- but I'm proud of our city leadership. We have a lot to be thankful for: great mayor, some great councilmembers, and a population that supports things like MAPS, bond issues, and the like and values working together to solve problems.

If we are able to reduce the city's unhoused population by 75% that would be transformational and alleviate many of the issues raised in this thread. It's not a panacea, but it's a start, and it has legs. Just coordinating the various nonprofits involved will lead to better results.

Again, proud of our city for taking this on and using a great example of success as its north star.

[Pete]

^

Hats off to James Cooper who has been one of the driving forces.

Also Aubrey McDermid (Planning Director / Asst. City Manager) has been fantastic. Very responsive and deeply committed.

[soonerguru]

^

Hats off to James Cooper who has been one of the driving forces.

Also Aubrey McDermid (Planning Director / Asst. City Manager) has been fantastic. Very responsive and deeply committed.

I am really impressed by her! And obviously, James. This city has changed so much for the better at City Hall. I remember in the 90s when the development community chased off Garner Stoll because he wanted to actually have an attractive city with sidewalks and good zoning. His successor lasted longer but was constantly being attacked.

It's worth mentioning that so much of the change I'm seeing began when Jim Couch retired. Craig Freeman may not be anyone's hero but he is extremely competent and appears to have high ethical standards. He's also much less dictatorial than his predecessors. It's worth saying that a lot of the things OKC is trying to do with affordable housing and the initiatives like police reform would never have happened here with Freeman's predecessors.

So, doling out a bit of praise in his direction. Yes, he's pretty conservative but he is fair minded and willing to try new things to make this city better.

[Pete]

^

Couch's retirement meant finally a shift away from the black & white engineer's mindset of not only the City Manager but his main lieutenants.

And Mayor Holt has been much more involved in planning and social initiatives.

[LocoAko]

Relevant to the discussion, Mayor Holt shared a few statistics about OKC's homeless population a few days ago on Twitter. Of course this is only from the "point in time" count which is imperfect (as it is every year) but it is the best we have. Despite the obvious issues and Nextdoor freakouts, we have a lower homelessness rate per capita than most otehr Top 50 cities, between Charlotte and Louisville. And, our total homeless numbers have not risen overall since 2005 despite the population growth, but he did note that the number of unsheltered homeless has risen, which probably contributes most to people's perceptions.

[soonerguru]

^

Couch's retirement meant finally a shift away from the black & white engineer's mindset of not only the City Manager but his main lieutenants.

And Mayor Holt has been much more involved in planning and social initiatives.

Correct on all points.

[soonerguru]

Relevant to the discussion, Mayor Holt shared a few statistics about OKC's homeless population a few days ago on Twitter. Of course this is only from the "point in time" count which is imperfect (as it is every year) but it is the best we have. Despite the obvious issues and Nextdoor freakouts, we have a lower homelessness rate per capita than most otehr Top 50 cities, between Charlotte and Louisville. And, our total homeless numbers have not risen overall since 2005 despite the population growth, but he did note that the number of unsheltered homeless has risen, which probably contributes most to people's perceptions.

One of the other points I saw raised, not sure if it was from Mayor Holt, is that a number of large warehouse-type buildings and other empty structures are now gone. Either demolished or renovated into something else. So, it's possible that we had more people living in such edifices before, and now are more visibly outside, which would lead people to be more aware of unhoused people in general.