Strawberry Fields

[catch22]

I hope this doesn't get built too fast. Letting the district mature as you build allows mistakes in planning to be corrected and allows some properties to be built with different styles and themes and prevents the "Disney" feel.

[Anonymous.]

It doesn't matter where the downtown grocery store is, as long as it is close to a streetcar stop. In which, 4th and EKG, is very close to stops #9 and #10 of the route.

[UnFrSaKn]

OKC Central Chat

Steve Lackmeyer replied:
Pat Salame, who is still acquiring property for Strawberry Fields, does not have a completed master plan for the project. Renderings were posted online by GSB that have since been removed and Salame told me they were at best a big dream vision for what was possible for the area that were shown to retailers at the most recent International Shopping Center conference. Strawberry Fields will likely be a phased development and yes, the plan is still a work in progress.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think anything is sketchy about this, just think the reporting on this story didn't answer many questions and begged a bunch more.

This is actually very similar to the 'Triangle' that was first proposed by Anthony McDermid and others for what is now Deep Deuce. They acquired a bunch of key properties, but together similar master plans and went from there.

And that district has turned out pretty great and is getting close to being fully built out. That original group did some small original development then spun off other properties which were in turn developed and then other investors / developers started filling in the surround properties.

And like here, there were a bunch of properties not owned by the group that did all the conceptualization.

One difference is that the city has specific guidelines (such as minimum heights) for any development in this area that hopes to receive incentives / TIF.

I really think this will develop very similarly to Deep Deuce and that is not a bad model to follow.

Good news then! Have you heard anything further on the Walmart?

[Pete]

It's Walmart Neighborhood Market that has been looking around downtown, not a full Walmart Store.

[traxx]

Something like this



or this



isn't so bad. But I'd rather have an Uptown Grocery in the area. I just think it would fit better. Plus, it's local.

[HangryHippo]

But I'd rather have an Uptown Grocery in the area. I just think it would fit better. Plus, it's local.

I'd rather have an Uptown Grocery in Midtown or along Automobile Alley, but a Walmart Neighborhood Market would be a great addition to downtown.

[Pete]

On thing about WMHM is they care a wide assortment of household items other than food, and have a full-blown pharmacy.

Shipt also delivers exclusively from Walmart and is a pretty good service

I actually think it would be a good fit downtown for those reasons and I've heard they have been looking around west downtown (but absolutely not in Strawberry Fields).

[HangryHippo]

On thing about WMHM is they care a wide assortment of household items other than food, and have a full-blown pharmacy.

Shipt also delivers exclusively from Walmart and is a pretty good service

I actually think it would be a good fit downtown for those reasons and I've heard they have been looking around west downtown (but absolutely not in Strawberry Fields).

West downtown is kind of surprising to me. Are grocery stores big enough drivers of traffic (i.e. beneficial for a mixed-use development in Midtown)?

[Pete]

Any decent-sized grocery store needs space for the building and parking.

A typical Neighborhood Market is 38,000 SF, which is almost an acre just for the footprint.

There are very few places in/near downtown where that type of land is available, especially at a reasonable price.

[Urbanized]

Having been in the urban WMNM in Bentonville, I can say without a doubt I'd love it and so would most everyone else, and this is coming from someone who avoids shopping at regular Wal-Marts like the plague. It was closer to a Whole Foods (or maybe Uptown Market) than it was to the WMNM we are familiar with here. Incredible selection, tons of organics, etc. That said, it's in Bentonville. I doubt the commitment would be the same to other cities.

[ChrisHayes]

How about 4th and Shartel for the grocery, or is it too far from the core?

[shawnw]

4th and Shartel is owned by OCURA I think? Not sure they could put a grocery there if they wanted? Well, I guess if they put out an RFP and the only thing that comes back is a grocery that would work? Not sure about the use rules for OCURA land...

[2Lanez]

I'd have to think as soon as one grocery went in downtown, a second would jump in on the other side to compete. Right? If Wal-Mart were to invest, it proves feasibility.

[KayneMo]

Wasn't the lot at 4th and Gaylord/Broadway drawing interest for a grocery?

[Pete]

Wasn't the lot at 4th and Gaylord/Broadway drawing interest for a grocery?

That's not happening any time soon (the entire development).

[traxx]

That's not happening any time soon (the entire development).

Are you saying the Times Square thing isn't going to happen?

[Pete]

Are you saying the Times Square thing isn't going to happen?

No, saying it is not going to happen any time soon.

[traxx]

No, saying it is not going to happen any time soon.

Ah. I see.

[UnFrSaKn]

Is WestPark District another "Bricktown Tower"?

[Plutonic Panda]

So I was just banned for posting on their Facebook page because I posted an opinion that I had of them laying to claim an opinion. I'll post more about this later and the screenshots they asked me not take of our conversation on Facebook(which means nothing) on this website they referred to as a 'rumor mill.'

Here is a response I wrote to post only to find they banned me before I could post it it.

"My criticism of your professionalism, or lack thereof, is based from my "wisdom" preparing to go into to civil engineering and city planning while as a current arts student, I monitor and chat with a lot of developers and I have not yet ever seen one talk the way you talk with people over social media or use words like the way you described certain areas of the suburbs of a big box wasteland. That's a first. On rumor mill sites, sure, but not from someone touting they supposedly have billions of dollars worth of investment going into a development.

Unless of course you are referring to what the city is investing then sure. Anyone could make a Facebook page, come up with a cool name(I do like the name you chose), and with a few years practice even as a hobby come up with beautiful renderings of a fictitious development.

Once again, I'm not against you and believe me, I'd even consider buying a condo or an apartment here when this is built. But you don't seem to be able to take criticism well and that's another one of my worries.

That coupled with the fact you haven't included the big box retail in the renderings except for the site plan, which if I recall right, you filed with the city(again folks, don't excited;it doesn't take anyone special to file a site plan with the city). Those were my initial concerns about the Walmart possibility. I know for a fact Walmart has been interested before and still is looking to build another super center someone around the core. I hate Walmart with a passion.

That all being said, I believe in the free market and their right to build as long as it meets city code and unfortunately Oklahoma City is a less than sophisticated city. A lot of their zoning codes, laws, ways of doing, design review ordinances, etc. are more akin to a backwards society than a forward thinking one like the cities you always hear about(Austin, Portland, Denver, Seattle, etc.).

That is not their fault however and if they meet the zoning requirements, then they should be able to build. My concern and point behind all of this is that developers should care for the community and go above and beyond what is expected of them by the city(Lord knows they used to). So let me find out you "phase one" consists of building the big box retail first.

I should also clarify, I'm not against big box retail. I am pro-sprawl and pro-automobile. But I'm the core, things should be dense. That's my personal taste and belief for a healthy city. Big box can function in their but not with the amount of surface parking you have proposed. Any jackass can go to Dallas and see developments with big box that are stacked with structured parking.

Needless to say, again I'll be watching this closely, and I really hope your development site plans are extremely preliminary."

I also had more posted that I will go back on and provide more context to but this is ridiculous and I am going to go out of my way to express my distrust for these people at every opportunity possible. Unfortunately for me that includes only commenting on articles at this as I'm 1,200 miles away. I will also write the city about this development.

BTW, they claim to be about walkabilty. Fine. I support that in the core. If they were so concerned about it and were experts, they wouldn't have superblocks in their renderings with parking in the middle surrounded by apartment mega developments. They would have similar blocks, pedestrian only streets throughout, smaller individual developments, etc.

I don't trust these people one bit. Night and day difference between this and Wheeler District.

[UnFrSaKn]

They acted weird to me as well, writing them on Facebook. I'm just leaving it all alone. Sort of feel like I'm being trolled.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah I also kind of feel like they're a troll but I don't want to discount them as no threat to the core. If they build the big box with surface parking could take the core in a bad direction.

[Pete]

Which Facebook page are you referencing here?

Strawberry Fields or Westpark District?

That Westpark page is not the Strawberry Fields people.

[Plutonic Panda]

Westpark District.