Union Bus Station

[jccouger]

You guys have taken this too far.

The original post was just about the bus station turned diner, and how successful it has become. There is no need to a full blown analysis on OKC Vs. Savannah & ways we should strive to be more like them. Just stick to the micro comparison & leave the politics & broad theory's out of it. Some of you really tend to over complicate stuff.

[BDP]

You guys have taken this too far.

The original post was just about the bus station turned diner, and how successful it has become. There is no need to a full blown analysis on OKC Vs. Savannah & ways we should strive to be more like them. Just stick to the micro comparison & leave the politics & broad theory's out of it. Some of you really tend to over complicate stuff.

I have to respectfully disagree. I actually think most, if not all, of the developmental mistakes in Oklahoma City have been caused when specific developments made no consideration for the macro level affect they have on the surrounding environment, or, even worse, when the politics at play lead to a disregard of the policies in place that were implemented to help facilitate a cohesive and integrated environment.

It's really just a coincidence that Savannah has successfully renovated a bus station into a popular destination in the city. But It is not a coincidence that it happened in a city with a plan that fosters such projects and that it won't be done in a city that doesn't have a plan, and/or is unwilling to to enforce the plan it has. The Union Bus station is a single asset, but it's destruction and the development that will replace it is a direct product of the city's lack of focused planning and the politics that guide it. This idea that every development exists in its own vacuum is the exact "broader theory" that has led to OKC being a city that many are indifferent about preserving and why it still struggles to create a cohesive urban district that effectively diversifies the city's appeal to the different ways many people like to live and work today. IMO, discussions about the fate of every existing structure and the environmental change any development will have on the neighborhood should always contain a macro level component. And, unless it is somehow a violation of this board's rules, I think any poster who wants to discuss any development in that context should be encouraged to do so.

[Just the facts]

lol. I can't think of anything more emblematic of the misguided OKC development strategies than the concept of tearing down the Lunch Box to build a surface parking lot in an urban area named after it.

It seems to be common practice among developers to name their projects after what they destroyed to build it, as if it is a memorial to what they themselves killed. I guess it is their attempt at 'place making' since the development itself can't pull it off.

[Spartan]

I really don't think anyone is suggesting that OKC be savannah. That would actually take a complete do over (and a time machine)

However, there is one important takeaway from Savannah that just about any city can learn from: Planning. Savannah is often referred to as America's first planned city. Whether the "first" part of it is true or not, it was Savannah's structured plan that made that part of the city worth preserving in the first place. We really have no plan, or, at least, we are unwilling to enforce it.

No, we have no plan (your first scenario)...

[Pete]

Crews marked all the utilities today around the bus station (thanks to jeepnokc for the photo):

[hfry]

Just saw on the journal record Twitter that the judge ruled it can be torn down. Be interesting to read his brief if it becomes available.

[Pete]

The judgment just recaps the evidence that was presented, and then summarizes with this:

[bchris02]

Just saw on the journal record Twitter that the judge ruled it can be torn down. Be interesting to read his brief if it becomes available.

Figures.

[baralheia]

Sigh. This is really not the outcome I had hoped for, but it is exactly what I expected. At least we tried.

Next step is to do whatever is necessary to strengthen our historic preservation ordinances in this city so that something like this can't happen again.

[Pete]

Here is the full ruling:

Click here to view or download the file directly.

[bchris02]

Sigh. This is really not the outcome I had hoped for, but it is exactly what I expected. At least we tried.

Next step is to do whatever is necessary to strengthen our historic preservation ordinances in this city so that something like this can't happen again.

Sorry for the negativity here, but Oklahoma City is perceived around the country as being one of the most soulless, characterless cities in the U.S. and we are witnessing exactly why. This is unbelievable. One of the last remaining historic urban blocks in town is getting ready to come down for a sterile glass tower with no street interaction and a massive parking garage. Is this still 1985?

I definitely agree with strengthening historic preservation ordinances, but at this point what is there left to save?

[LakeEffect]

Sorry for the negativity here, but Oklahoma City is perceived around the country as being one of the most soulless, characterless cities in the U.S. and we are witnessing exactly why.

Seriously? We may not be revered, but I've never encountered anyone that thought of us as soulless and characterless. The only recurring theme I've heard is "I don't know much about OKC."

I get the feeling the judge was conflicted while writing this. Strengthening the ordinance is a definite direction to take.

What do we have left? First National, for one.

[PhiAlpha]

Sorry for the negativity here, but Oklahoma City is perceived around the country as being one of the most soulless, characterless cities in the U.S. and we are witnessing exactly why.

BChris with all due respect, shut up. Even though you've lightened up here...you've continued to spew this same crap under another user name on the OKC city-data forum and it's beyond annoying. Just because you hate it here and can't leave because of whatever messed up situation you got yourself into, does not mean the rest of the country perceives OKC as soulless and characterless. Most people I've encountered in cities outside of OKC know little to nothing about OKC. If they do know anything, it's about our indian and western heritage (or the Thunder) and that is in no way soulless or characterless. Even without this block, there is absolutely no reason to view OKC that way. You act as if we are the only city that has ever knocked down a historic block, hint your favorite escape destination (or maybe second to Charlotte), Dallas, knocked down it's historic buildings and built a bunch of glass, soulless towers on a scale greater than anything we could hope to achieve.

The demolition of this block sucks, but it is not the end of the world and certainly doesn't render the city "soulless and characterless"

[dankrutka]

Sorry for the negativity here, but Oklahoma City is perceived around the country as being one of the most soulless, characterless cities in the U.S. and we are witnessing exactly why.

This is a classic case of bchris02 taking his feelings and, without evidence, claiming it somehow represents national views. Can't you just make your point without these silly comments?

[Pete]

I just started with a new triathlon team here in Southern California and I've had three people tell me (upon learning I'm from Oklahoma) that they have been to OKC and thought it was 'cool'.


Having said that, this ruling is expected yet disappointing.

Last week, crews were marking utilities and cutting concrete behind the station. I suspect demolition will start very soon on all the buildings.

[Of Sound Mind]

this is a classic case of bchris02 taking his feelings and, without evidence, claiming it somehow represents national views. Can't you just make your point without these silly comments?

bingo

[jccouger]

Looking forward to following the construction of a new downtown tower. It is a fairly massive scale project that OKC has rarely seen in its history, and will be fun to document from start to finish.

[Pete]

There has been a rumor that the building may end up being slightly taller, but I have not been able to confirm that.

[TU 'cane]

I haven't heard anyone call OKC "soulless," personally. I've heard many other things, both positive and negative, but never soulless.

However, bchris still has a point that here we are, watching a few older buildings be torn down for a mid-sized glass building. Oh, and it's really not even final at that, see what's happening with Stage Center, it was torn down months ago and here we all are, still looking at a dirt lot with no record of scheduled movement on it, whatsoever - only speculation.

This project will be "nice" when it's finished, and we can only take it in stride at this point and hope they hurry up. The sooner this project is completed, the better.

But back to bchris's comment about lacking soul, that's why it's imperative Bricktown keeps it's swag. It needs to be gritty, it needs to be hokie so it has character. So when people remember OKC, they say "yea, Bricktown was really cool and memorable." Where battles may be lost here, win them with the other catalysts of the city.

Looking forward to following the construction of a new downtown tower. It is a fairly massive scale project that OKC has rarely seen in its history, and will be fun to document from start to finish.

I've turned my attitude as harboring over a loss is bad for one's health. All we can do now is learn.
I'm looking forward to watching this progress.

And hey, I'm one of "those people" who likes projects like this to be visible with height, and if Pete's unconfirmed report is true that it may end up being even a floor or two taller, I'll be happier.

[OkieNate]

BChris with all due respect, shut up. Even though you've lightened up here...you've continued to spew this same crap under another user name on the OKC city-data forum and it's beyond annoying. Just because you hate it here and can't leave because of whatever messed up situation you got yourself into, does not mean the rest of the country perceives OKC as soulless and characterless. Most people I've encountered in cities outside of OKC know little to nothing about OKC. If they do know anything, it's about our indian and western heritage (or the Thunder) and that is in no way soulless or characterless. Even without this block, there is absolutely no reason to view OKC that way. You act as if we are the only city that has ever knocked down a historic block, hint your favorite escape destination (or maybe second to Charlotte), Dallas, knocked down it's historic buildings and built a bunch of glass, soulless towers on a scale greater than anything we could hope to achieve.

The demolition of this block sucks, but it is not the end of the world and certainly doesn't render the city "soulless and characterless"

Standing ovation. Ironic he calls OKC "soulless and characterless". That is pretty close to how I'd describe him.

[AP]

This is a classic case of bchris02 taking his feelings and, without evidence, claiming it somehow represents national views. Can't you just make your point without these silly comments?

+1

[PhiAlpha]

Standing ovation. Ironic he calls OKC "soulless and characterless". That is pretty close to how I'd describe him.

I was warming up to him over the last year or so until I randomly looked in at the city-data OKC thread and found that under the new alias bawac34618 (yes they are definitely the same person) he takes nearly every post in every thread as an opportunity to bash OKC, even those outside of the OKC forum. It's like he seeks out any opportunity to throw shade on OKC...and does so. It is almost comical...have a look:

City-Data Forum - Search Results

[bchris02]

Just because you don't like what somebody has to say doesn't warrant harsh personal attacks. Anyways, I think I am done with this site, at least for a while. Peace out everyone.

[AP]

I was warming up to him over the last year or so until I randomly looked in at the city-data OKC thread and found that under the new alias bawac34618 (yes they are definitely the same person) he takes nearly every post in every thread as an opportunity to bash OKC, even those outside of the OKC forum. It's like he seeks out any opportunity to throw shade on OKC...and does so. It is almost comical...have a look:

City-Data Forum - Search Results

That's incredible. I'm somewhat at a loss...

[AP]

I don't want this to turn in to a bash Bchris thing, but come on dude. There is no way that anyone could be as miserable as you claim to be in OKC. Absolutely no way. You called OKC a prison. WOW.