Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[Snowman]

1) Building more lakes is not the answer - in fact, that is the problem. Only so much water passes through Oklahoma and building more lakes is just chasing dimensioning returns. The idea of a lake in general is that it catches and holds runoff at above normal times for use later during below normal time. The problem is when you past the half-way point and demand is higher than what can be produced in an average year. You can have all the storage capacity you want but if there isn't rainwater to fill it then big deal. The more capacity we build the more rainfall it takes to fill it and we can't make it rain any more than it already is. If our capacity can only be filled by extreme wet years then we are just setting ourselves up for even bigger future problems. I can open all the checking accounts I want but it doesn't change the fact my income doesn't change, I just have more place to keep it.

They are not building a lake in there current plan, the lake they are planing on building a pipeline to was built thirty years ago and it is still near it's full capacity now.

The two lakes OKC currently has access to are in dynamically opposite conditions; Canton is in trouble, Atoka even in the worst of this drought was at least near capacity the entire time, it has been in the flood stages at times. Partly due to Atoka's and Sardis's catchment areas generally receives more than three to four times as much rain per square inch as Canton's catchment area.

[law]

OKC residents must be made aware of the problem. Local news recently did some stories, and OETA did a longer story, but no one, not the mayor, not the newspeople, none actually made the story sound as serious as it is. Granted, there may be some rains upstream, but it is quite possible you will not. The "if not" is so serious, I don't know how any responsible government official in any dependent water district can ignore or make light of the circumstances facing them. Image 200,000 plus without drinking water? No water to fight fires? Remember the wildfires? If this drought continues, OKC will change their ways. They will have no other choice. These are physical facts, and Canton cannot change them.

[Just the facts]

Image 200,000 plus without drinking water? No water to fight fires? Remember the wildfires? If this drought continues, OKC will change their ways. They will have no other choice. These are physical facts, and Canton cannot change them.

That pretty much sums it up law. We can either find a way to live on less or a way will be found for us, and most people aren't going to like living in an environment where we learn our lessons the hard way. We have several foreclosures in our subdivision and it is easy to spot them. They are the ones with dead grass and bushes because nature simply can't provide the necessary water on its own at the place it is needed. Fortunately, we have found a way to live on less and it has proven to have many other benefits as well. We just need more people to adopt a higher density way of living.

[bombermwc]

#1 way not to have your grass not turn brown and dead? - NEVER PUT IN A SPRINKLER SYSTEM!!!!

Talk to any master gardener (I've two aunts that are), and they'll tell you that relying on the sprinkler simply causes the roots of your grass to shrink because they don't have to grow deeper to reach the water. That makes them more susceptible to drought conditions because the roots are so close to the surface.

If you have a sprinkler system, then you can prevent that from happening IF you don't have it just run on a schedule. Get up and go turn it on...start the cycle. Get a moisture sensor so it doesn't run when it doesn't need to...ie in the middle of a thunderstorm.

Another thing you can do is get native plants. This isn't Florida, so don't put in tropical plants or those that require tons of water.

This last summer, i didn't run my sprinkler but maybe 3 times total ALL SUMMER. My grass was just as green and growing as well as (if not better) than my sprinkler system buddies next door. It's that early spring prep you do with the right fertilizers (which for me meant two treatments, 2 weeks apart, with a total of 30 minutes of walking behind a fertilizer). It's really super easy folks and can take far less effort than all the crazy maintenance people try to do. If you just plant the right things and don't go crazy, your lawn and plants will still be happy and you will be to because you won't be outside doing things every day.

Indoors, it's more difficult to conserve. Make sure your toilets or facuets aren't leaking. That eats up a TON of water really fast.
Use a cup for your toothbrushing swish water instead of running the tap the whole time.
For the guys, if you use a manual razor, fill the sink some to rinse the razor, don't run the tap.
If your dishwasher and washing machine are old, you might consider a newer one. They're more energy efficient and use water more conservatively.
Forget that jacuzzi tub...ours collects dust more than anything.
Low flow toilets can use a lot less, but especially if you get those things that help shoot your stuff down the drain with "power".

[OKCTalker]

Say what you will about Californians, but they know how to endure a water shortage. Inside: Brief showers, not flushing every time, brushing teeth without water. Outside: No washing cars or watering lawns. No-one grumbles and it becomes the "new normal" until the next rain cycle begins and the reservoirs refill. We'd be wise to follow their example.

[Matt]

If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.

[Anonymous.]

So I may be missing something...

But the best way to get people to notice something and change - is to make them pay more.

Why is water in OKC so cheap??? Raise the prices, people will stop dumping water on lawns, filling pools for summer, etc.


This seems like a no brainer to me.

[Just the facts]

#1 way not to have your grass not turn brown and dead? - NEVER PUT IN A SPRINKLER SYSTEM!!!!

Pretty close bombermwc but the #1 way to not have you grass turn brown and die is to not have a yard to begin with. It works every time and is fool proof. Once again I qoute the W.O.P.R. computer. The only winning move is not to play.

[kevinpate]

Pretty close bombermwc but the #1 way to not have you grass turn brown and die is to not have a yard to begin with. It works every time and is fool proof. Once again I qoute the W.O.P.R. computer. The only winning move is not to play.

A family down the road on my former residence converted about 85% of their front yard to an attractive rock garden, with just a couple of small plants. Fair part of the back was taken over by an out-building. I think what was left could be mowed in about 10 minutes, w/o hurrying. Now that all my mowers are grown and gone, I'm thinking about the idea more than I did in the past.

[mkjeeves]

A family down the road on my former residence converted about 85% of their front yard to an attractive rock garden, with just a couple of small plants. Fair part of the back was taken over by an out-building. I think what was left could be mowed in about 10 minutes, w/o hurrying. Now that all my mowers are grown and gone, I'm thinking about the idea more than I did in the past.

That's pretty much how I remember suburban yards in Albuquerque back when.

Typical aerial view:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=6101+...gl=us&t=h&z=20

[Just the facts]

I would kill myself before I lived in a subdivision like that. What about that living arrangement could possibly inspire someone to get up and go to work everyday?

[Anonymous.]

I would kill myself before I lived in a subdivision like that. What about that living arrangement could possibly inspire someone to get up and go to work everyday?

Really? That's a shallow opinion. That neighborhood looks much nicer than most that I would consider "killing myself" before living in. Not everyone needs materialistic things to "get up and go to work everyday".

[Just the facts]

Really? That's a shallow opinion. That neighborhood looks much nicer than most that I would consider "killing myself" before living in. Not everyone needs materialistic things to "get up and go to work everyday".

Of all the problems with sprawl, it does have one large universal appeal and that is that it is pretty to look at. The subdivision in that picture has none of that.

Anyhow, I was mostly just joking.

[mkjeeves]

Of all the problems with sprawl, it does have one large universal appeal and that is that it is pretty to look at. The subdivision in that picture has none of that.

Anyhow, I was mostly just joking.

The same type yards are all over the city (and in Arizona) at homes with a range of price points and with varying degrees of aesthetics. That neighborhood is less than a decade old. Mountain views! The one that's pinpointed is $120,000 and it's nicer than my first home purchase in OKC. When I lived in ABQ in a similar neighborhood, I could safely ride my bike to the base of the mountain, to school and just about anywhere I needed to go.

Get rid of the yard, stack four to fifty more stories on top if it, triple or quadruple the cost and you have yourself urban living.

6101 Stargazer Ave NW, Albuquerque, NM 87114 - Zillow

[onthestrip]

Of all the problems with sprawl, it does have one large universal appeal and that is that it is pretty to look at. The subdivision in that picture has none of that.

Anyhow, I was mostly just joking.

Says you maybe. I dont see anything pretty to look at in regards to rows of similar looking houses with no mature landscaping located out in far NW OKC. Id much rather drive through and look at an old neighborhood that has a charming mix of homes on 50x140ft lots rather than the repetitive cookie cutter neighborhoods.

[Just the facts]

If people in Albuquerque want to live in a dust patch more power to them, but there are nice places in Albuquerque that use very little water and still look inviting. Anyhow, this is a perfect illustration of what happens when the water runs out. Now if only they had back the money spent building those million miles of roads to the north and south (they are so barren even the Google Streeview guys didn't drive down them and they get paid by the mile).

[mkjeeves]

If people in Albuquerque want to live in a dust patch more power to them, but there are nice places in Albuquerque that use very little water and still look inviting. Anyhow, this is a perfect illustration of what happens when the water runs out. Now if only they had back the money spent building those million miles of roads to the north and south (they are so barren even the Google Streeview guys didn't drive down them and they get paid by the mile).

You missed the point. There are alternatives to green watered lawns or urban concrete. When people live in arid climes sometimes they don't try to force what's not natural. As far as ABQ goes, I lived there 40 + years ago. The gravel rock yard adaptation had been there quite a while before I arrived and the choice isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It's a desert.

In addition to having yards that are a natural response to the environmental conditions in which they live, some people like it and some people love it. Others live in Florida.

[Just the facts]

Yep - I get that 100%. Ironically, here in Florida we live with sever water restrictions every year. We needed 2 tropical storms last year just to end the drought.

[ljbab728]

For the guys, if you use a manual razor, fill the sink some to rinse the razor, don't run the tap.

Nice, Idea but I've tried many times and it just doesn't work for me.

[1972ford]

Nice, Idea but I've tried many times and it just doesn't work for me.

Use two cups pour one into the other if you need flowing water

[BoulderSooner]

I wonder how many on this thread actually watched the OKC Water trust meeting ...

or know that OKC went to the water restrictions out of a moral choice (because of some of our neighboring cities) not an OKC water shortage choice ... or know that the pipe line from atoka is full open and has been for several months and that draper is slowly refilling ... or that OKC is going to start limiting the water taken from hefner and start taking more from draper on non peak usage days ... or that OKC has a policy of not filling hefner for rec activities only for water needs ..

[BoulderSooner]

Some of you still aren't seeing the big picture. While this is a basic supply and demand problem, far too many are focusing on supply as the problem when the real problem is on the demand side. The bottom line is most of us are living a lifestyle (me included) that is beyond the means of mother nature to supply the resources for. Across the annual rainfall spectrum we are increasingly only having enough rain in years at the top end of the scale. Normal rainfall is no longer enough and when below annual rainfall years occur the dust hits the fan quickly. We have the same problem here in Florida - almost every year. At least we have one advantage in Florida - desalination.

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from? Conservation alone isn't going to get us there. You can put all the low-flow shower heads on, flush on every 3rd trip to the bathroom, turn the water off while you brush your teeth, etc..., but none of that means crap vs. pouring 15,000 gallons of water on your yard every month. The next 250,000 people moving to OKC have to live on the same water supply we are struggling with today, in fact, to solve this problem we have to be using LESS water in 20 years than we are today.

And of course, having enough water to drink is only a small part of the problem. There are serious downstream environmental problems that occur when too much water is siphoned off upstream. Just to give you an example, the mighty Colorado River that created the Grand Canyon and fills huge lakes - goes dry 20 miles from the ocean. Billions of gallons of water that used to drain into the Gulf of California no longer make it there. The same thing is occurring with many rivers west of the Appalachian Mountains.

OKC has plenty of water for all of those new people for way more than the next 20 years

[Just the facts]

OKC has plenty of water for all of those new people for way more than the next 20 years

So there you have it - crisis averted. Back to DefCon 5.

[Of Sound Mind]

As long as our lakes look the way they do, we have a water problem. It's embarrassing to see Hefner and other lakes look so pitiful. It's more than just about drinking water. It's about the beautification of our city and about quality of life. It's hard to convince out-of-towners how wonderful it is to live here when major recreation areas have turned into giant dust bowls. It's not quite as fun to spend outdoor time at places like Lake Hefner—whether it's walking, running or biking around the lake, or on-the-water activities—when you're looking at a large dirt field with an ever-shrinking puddle in the middle of it.

Are we out of drinking water? No. Should we wait until we are until we do something? Absolutely not. The lake levels should be a serious wake-up call for water conservation. If this drought persists much longer, we will move into a major crisis mode. Are you wanting to wait until we reach that point?

[BrettM2]

Tried attaching this on Sunday, but this is what the portion of the lake by Children's Park looked like.