Devon Park (Softball Hall of Fame)

[mugofbeer]

This is a pretty profound misunderstanding of how things work. POTUS can direct his education and justice departments to make certain statements and regulatory interpretations in house, but the actual legal interpretation of the law is up to the Courts, not POTUS. And under Bostock, the Courts have shown that their interpretation "on the basis of sex" is indeed broad, which aligns with their earlier Title IX ruling in North Haven. To go against that in a Title IX case would be hugely ignorant of the existing precedent (and would require Gorsuch and Roberts to suddenly do an about face without a legal leg to stand on).

Well, that's precisely what l've been saying at the end of thelast couple of posts. Of course the courts have the final say.

The administrations still have very different ways of interpreting the rule even still. The longer it goes on, the more lawsuits will consistently define it. Harking to another post where someone criticized me for bringing up hypotheticals, had the original Congress who passed the law anticipated hypotheticals, many of these suits could have been avoided. As it is, the bureaucrats have been setting guidelines that, recently, have gone from one extreme to the other.fy458i9

"Congress kept the core provision of Title IX very brief, only one sentence long. The interpretation and implementation of Title IX was left to the executive, whom Congress expressly "authorized and directed to effectuate the [statute] by issuing rules, regulations, or orders of general applicability which shall be consistent with achievement of [its] objectives ..."[3]"

[jedicurt]

Regardless of a very few, rare cases...

What on earth is our state legislature doing making this a priority?

It's political grandstanding and if you can't see that, their methods are just playing to your political bias and need to constantly construct 'evil forces' instead of dealing with real problems in our state and society in general.

exactly this... regardless how you feel about this... we have way more important things to be trying to solve, why is this even an issue being brought up by our legislature?

[Pete]

exactly this... regardless how you feel about this... we have way more important things to be trying to solve, why is this even an issue being brought up by our legislature?

Because it's a cultural wedge issue that panders to their base.

Like this has any real importance other than that.

[dankrutka]

Where in the bill of rights is this covered? I don't see one saying you have the right to participate in women's athletics even though you are physically a man. Are we inventing a new right to apply?

You might take a look at a U.S. History book sometime. This is exactly how civil rights activism and legislation has worked from the Reconstruction Amendments to the Civil Rights Act to the Oberfell decision among many others. So, yes, this is kind of equivalent to how some White controlled schools and districts decided that Black athletes could play before others. These cases are not just decided for everyone, but in schools, districts, and states in the meantime.

Like this has any real importance other than that.

There is only one group who are truly impacted by this legislation: transgender youth. They are often the most marginalized, bullied, and vulnerable kids in our schools. If you read the articles earlier, the transgender athletes discussed how humanizing it was to have institutional support. I'm glad the NCAA is doing the right thing here. How important is this issue to the bullies at the state capitol? Are they willing to throw away once of OKC's best annual events?

[mugofbeer]

Because it's a cultural wedge issue that panders to their base.

Like this has any real importance other than that.

It does matter to women athletes, otherwise there wouldn't be lawsuits filed by them. If it weren't important to someone, Biden wouldn't have issued an Executive Order on the issue.

[kukblue1]

It does matter to women athletes, otherwise there wouldn't be lawsuits filed by them. If it weren't important to someone, Biden wouldn't have issued an Executive Order on the issue.

I think there are a few lawsuits being filed. https://apnews.com/article/connectic...09d6128687af82 is the one I know of

[Pete]

It does matter to women athletes, otherwise there wouldn't be lawsuits filed by them. If it weren't important to someone, Biden wouldn't have issued an Executive Order on the issue.

A very small number of athletes. Lawsuits are filed all the time.

And the only reason Biden is getting involved is that a bunch of legislators are trying to make this into another cultural war by demonizing people who should be treated with compassion rather than made into an enemy to be exploited for political gain.

[mugofbeer]

There are also a very small number of transgendered women while far more female athletes. As l said earlier, l see the olympics as being the place it really comes out but the CT case will likely try to make it to the Supreme Court. We'll see.

[Pete]

There are also a very small number of transgendered women while far more female athletes. As l said earlier, l see the olympics as being the place it really comes out but the CT case will likely try to make it to the Supreme Court. We'll see.

This is about discriminating against a group of people, just like making a big deal out of gay marriage.

You and everyone knows darn well this is about feeding red meat to a certain base of political supporters who loved the ban of trans people in the military and the "othering" of immigrants and similar theatrics.


The bottom line is, OKC has a very real chance of losing the Women's College World Series and a bunch of other NCAA events that bring a lot of interest and money to the state; not to mention once again making us all look like a bunch of redneck, intolerant rubes as we try to court businesses and their employees to the state. It's nothing about some mock concern over some hypothetical female athletes somewhere, some time.


If this becomes an issue, let the Olympics deal with it then and there. it's absurd for legislators in Oklahoma to be spending time on this absolute foolishness and only bad things can come of it.

[foodiefan]

this. . . ^^^

[unfundedrick]

You might take a look at a U.S. History book sometime. This is exactly how civil rights activism and legislation has worked from the Reconstruction Amendments to the Civil Rights Act to the Oberfell decision among many others. So, yes, this is kind of equivalent to how some White controlled schools and districts decided that Black athletes could play before others. These cases are not just decided for everyone, but in schools, districts, and states in the meantime.



There is only one group who are truly impacted by this legislation: transgender youth. They are often the most marginalized, bullied, and vulnerable kids in our schools. If you read the articles earlier, the transgender athletes discussed how humanizing it was to have institutional support. I'm glad the NCAA is doing the right thing here. How important is this issue to the bullies at the state capitol? Are they willing to throw away once of OKC's best annual events?

According to this quote from bill co-author, Sheila Dills, from Tulsa they most definitely are willing to throw away one of OKC's best annual events.
“We all want to promote business and economic development opportunities in our state and our local communities, and we certainly love athletics. But we cannot sacrifice our Oklahoma values, which include fairness in sport and the protection of opportunities for women and girls in Oklahoma, for the sake of dollars or even the popularity of such events."

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City's opportunity to host a 64 team WCWS bubble.

"We are already the home of the Women’s College World Series, of course. Got an expanded and renovated stadium all ready for it, too. But we’ve got way more than that — we’ve got the ability to do the whole NCAA softball tournament.

Now, this might seem like a pie-in-the-sky idea. But as one person who works in the world of softball reminded me, everyone is thinking outside the box right now. When it comes to ideas about how to give teams an opportunity to play, nothing is too far fetched...

...The NCAA softball tournament is a three-week event that starts with 64 teams. They are seeded into four-team, double-elimination regionals, then the winners of the 16 regionals advance to two-team, best-of-three super regionals. The eight winners of the super regionals advance to the WCWS.

So, how would May Madness in OKC work?

The biggest issue would be where everyone plays and how our available facilities are put to use, but we have enough high-quality fields as long as a couple small tweaks are allowed...

...By the way, I’m told the metro has plenty of hotel rooms to accommodate teams and ancillary tournament personnel. Everyone might not get to stay in downtown OKC, but if the fields at OU and OSU are used, for example, everyone might not want to stay downtown.

Another aside, I wouldn’t allow OU or OSU to play on their home fields. That’s how the men’s basketball tournament is doing business — games will be held at Indiana, Purdue and Butler, but those teams won’t play on their home courts if they make the tournament — so that rule could easily apply to softball.

Listen, I know this plan would require sacrifices. Sacrifices by the teams. Sacrifices by the NCAA. Sacrifices by the facilities.

But the benefits are numerous.

For the NCAA, travel costs would be slashed. That’s the tournament’s biggest expense, and while lodging costs would rise, not having to buy hundreds of plane tickets on short notice for players, coaches and support staff to jet all around the country would make up the difference.

For the metro, we would get a softball-stravaganza that would be a balm for the loss of the WCWS last year. That was a complete and total gut punch, but we could have three full weeks of NCAA games. It would be great for the city and a boost to the economy.--Jenni Carlson, January 7, 2021 Oklahoman.

Oklahoma City has an opportunity to really host an event (64-team WCWS softball tournament) with an economic impact boost to our city's hotels that could be a real shot-in-the-arm with out-of-state money flowing into our local economy.

Oklahoma City Downtown Hotel Summary: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=34292

[shawnw]

Great idea (and it's looking so good post-updates), but if the leg has its way......

[Bowser214]

Need to let the NCAA govern women's college sports!! Not the Ok Legislature!

[mugofbeer]

How about MAYhem?

[d-usa]

The amazing thing for me is that people think that there is a significant number of teenage kids who are willing to undergo life altering medical procedures, spend a huge amount of money on procedures that may not be coveted by insurance, undergo bullying with verbal (and often physical) assault from classmates and their parents, only to gain a slight competitive edge in high school sports...

[Midtowner]

Where in the bill of rights is this covered? I don't see one saying you have the right to participate in women's athletics even though you are physically a man. Are we inventing a new right to apply?

Two potential areas-- equal protection, though I doubt the conservative Justices could be swayed. Probably the most likely issue is that there is no rational basis seeking to accomplish any legitimate governmental goal in banning trans athletes. Especially when groups like the OSSAA have been handling this for years with very few issues.

Sure, some athletes are going to have a bit of a leg up, but I don't think anyone's going to go through a gender transition just to win at sportsball. While we're on those physical advantages, Michael Phelps has an unnatural wingspan. Should he be banned from swimming because it's just not fair to the competition?

[mugofbeer]

Well, of course no one is going to have a sex change solely to win a contest and Michael Phelps having long arms is a fair advantage because 1. There are plenty of other men with long arms and 2. It's physical equals competing against each other. Same with Usain Bolt being 6-5, it's still physical equals. Let's not stoop to absurdities. Protecting women from being forced to compete on the same level as physical men may not be your cup of tea but it's far from an absurdity.

We'll see how the courts see it.

[Bill Robertson]

I have lots of different and differing thoughts on trans-gender athletes in college sports. But since this is a softball thread I'll say this. If this year's OU softball team came up against a team with two or three trans-gender players in the WCWS finals I'd still bet the house on OU. Maybe even to sweep by run rules. So I'm not sure it's that big a deal in some sports. In others maybe it is a bigger deal.

[PoliSciGuy]

Let's not stoop to absurdities.

A weird stance for someone who earlier was clutching their pearls in fear of Trae Young or Steph Curry transitioning to dominate the WNBA.

[BoulderSooner]

I have lots of different and differing thoughts on trans-gender athletes in college sports. But since this is a softball thread I'll say this. If this year's OU softball team came up against a team with two or three trans-gender players in the WCWS finals I'd still bet the house on OU. Maybe even to sweep by run rules. So I'm not sure it's that big a deal in some sports. In others maybe it is a bigger deal.

lol this is funny ..

a team of all guys that have played softball all year would crush this OU womens team

just like the womens us national soccer team lost to 8th grade boys .. and a good high schools boys team would beat the team usa womens bball team ..

[Bill Robertson]

lol this is funny ..

a team of all guys that have played softball all year would crush this OU womens team

just like the womens us national soccer team lost to 8th grade boys .. and a good high schools boys team would beat the team usa womens bball team ..

A all men's team yes. That's not what I said.

[BoulderSooner]

A all men's team yes. That's not what I said.

i guess it depends on if one of the is a pitcher .... elite women throw around 70 .... men 85-90

[PoliSciGuy]

Your words, not mine:

If Trae Young or Buddy Heild or Stephan Curry became trans, would it be fair to let them compete in the WNBA? What if it were Kevin Durant or James Hardin? Their skills wouldn't change much if they transitioned.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow, https://twitter.com/carmenmforman/st...779478530?s=21