GE may move its HQ after Connecticut passed state corporate tax increases.

[Bellaboo]

No one is upset at the person who lives frugally and invests their money wisely. I don't know how you could read this thread and come away with that idea. That's like adding 2 and 2 together and getting 9.

No one is upset over the person who has "a million dollars". My 85 year old grandma has about that, from her lifetime of cutting coupons and pinching pennies. The concern is that people who have far, far more than that have influenced the system to the point that they pay little to no taxes. Warren Buffet even said that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary did.

Buffett says he's still paying lower tax rate than his secretary - Mar. 4, 2013
Are rich people going to be devastated if you increased capital gains taxes on everything over a million dollars to 40%? Of course not. Should how they make their money cause them to pay less taxes simply because it didn't come from a salary at a job? Of course not. When our government is running a $500 billion deficit every year, does it make sense to tax the wealthiest people less than the middle class? Of course not.

Again, I don't hate the rich at all. If I was in their shoes, I would do the exact same thing. But I have the ability to admit that, and also to recognize that functioning that way is not the healthiest way to run a country.

If Warren feels that bad about it, he can take his checkbook out and send some more $ in to the Feds - they won't refuse it. I also follow Warren, and at one time he quoted that it's not his fault, it's the tax code. He has enough money and power to lobby and have it changed, if he really wanted to.

Warren though unless he's changed lately still lives in the house he bought in the late 1950's IIRC and also drives a 10 year old car. He is frugal himself.

[ou48A]

No one is upset at the person who lives frugally and invests their money wisely. I don't know how you could read this thread and come away with that idea. That's like adding 2 and 2 together and getting 9.

No one is upset over the person who has "a million dollars". My 85 year old grandma has about that, from her lifetime of cutting coupons and pinching pennies. The concern is that people who have far, far more than that have influenced the system to the point that they pay little to no taxes. Warren Buffet even said that he paid a lower tax rate than his secretary did.

Buffett says he's still paying lower tax rate than his secretary - Mar. 4, 2013

Are rich people going to be devastated if you increased capital gains taxes on everything over a million dollars to 40%? Of course not. Should how they make their money cause them to pay less taxes simply because it didn't come from a salary at a job? Of course not. When our government is running a $500 billion deficit every year, does it make sense to tax the wealthiest people less than the middle class? Of course not.

Again, I don't hate the rich at all. If I was in their shoes, I would do the exact same thing. But I have the ability to admit that, and also to recognize that functioning that way is not the healthiest way to run a country.

There are many in this nation who vilifie any person with a million dollars no matter how they came by it… People who engage in class warfare of any type are always out of ideas that have successful outcomes and are not fit to lead anything but a parade of agitation that appeals to no one but the gullible.

[hoya]

If Warren feels that bad about it, he can take his checkbook out and send some more $ in to the Feds - they won't refuse it. I also follow Warren, and at one time he quoted that it's not his fault, it's the tax code. He has enough money and power to lobby and have it changed, if he really wanted to.

Warren though unless he's changed lately still lives in the house he bought in the late 1950's IIRC and also drives a 10 year old car. He is frugal himself.

Oh, yeah he doesn't feel bad enough to do that.

But it sure would be nice if my tax rates depended on what I felt like paying.

There are many in this nation who vilifie any person with a million dollars no matter how they came by it… People who engage in class warfare of any type are always out of ideas that have successful outcomes and are not fit to lead anything but a parade of agitation that appeals to no one but the gullible.

You seem like you are very familiar with agitation. Perhaps you should breathe deeply and count to ten.

I believe that as the divide between the fabulously wealthy and the rest of us grows ever greater, social instability will follow. We're a long way from the French Revolution and putting the rich to the guillotine, but a lot of people are angry about the influence of money in politics. How many more bank bailouts does the public have in them before they decide major change is needed?

[Bellaboo]

Does anyone honestly think that if the super rich lost their money that much would change in the next 20 years ?

That your life would be greatly affected ?

[ou48A]

Does anyone honestly think that if the super rich lost their money that much would change in the next 20 years ?

That your life would be greatly affected ?

New innovation would be seriously impacted…. if the rich lost their money.
It’s the rich most of all who put forth their venture capital on new ideas that can improve the quality of life…. The government and large corporations do important research... but their work was often born from a bright idea by some individual who needed the venture capital to advance the idea at its being. All three branches are important and are dependent on each other to some degree.…..
Venture capital is something Oklahoma needs a huge amount more of. It might be the signal biggest missing ingredient on improving the quality of life of Oklahomans over several decades.
Who knows how not having as many advancements could impact our lives?

[Jersey Boss]

There are many in this nation who vilifie any person with a million dollars no matter how they came by it… People who engage in class warfare of any type are always out of ideas that have successful outcomes and are not fit to lead anything but a parade of agitation that appeals to no one but the gullible.

Your politically charged rhetoric is comical, maybe you ought to throw in a few proletariats' or bourgeoisie. The income inequality gap that has been steadily getting wider since the 1970's is proof enough that the uber wealthy are engaged in and promoting the class warfare that you allege. I don't begrudge anybody their wealth, but I begrudge the system that allows and encourages only those of the monied class from having meaningful input into the political process through unlimited political contributions and junkets.

[ou48A]

Your politically charged rhetoric is comical, maybe you ought to throw in a few proletariats' or bourgeoisie. The income inequality gap that has been steadily getting wider since the 1970's is proof enough that the uber wealthy are engaged in and promoting the class warfare that you allege. I don't begrudge anybody their wealth, but I begrudge the system that allows and encourages only those of the monied class from having meaningful input into the political process through unlimited political contributions and junkets.

That’s just goofy IMHO^
The system still doesn’t “begrudge” the individual from achieving high success and great wealth. It’s still very much up to each individual to achieve it.



What is truly and honesty comical and almost criminal at the same time is an entire group of people have been persuaded that great self-created wealth and success is not possible for the individual and that most of us cannot accumulate wealth at rates far higher than the average person just by having a decent job, by being smart and discipline over a life time.

[hoya]

That’s just goofy IMHO^
The system still doesn’t “begrudge” the individual from achieving high success and great wealth. It’s still very much up to each individual to achieve it.



What is truly and honesty comical and almost criminal at the same time is an entire group of people have been persuaded that great self-created wealth and success is not possible for the individual

Don't be ridiculous.

and that most of us cannot accumulate wealth at rates far higher than the average person just by having a decent job, by being smart and discipline over a life time.

Actually that's 100% impossible. "Most of us" can't achieve far higher wealth than "an average person", by definition. Unless you've got a very exclusive definition of "us".

[Bellaboo]

Your politically charged rhetoric is comical, maybe you ought to throw in a few proletariats' or bourgeoisie. The income inequality gap that has been steadily getting wider since the 1970's is proof enough that the uber wealthy are engaged in and promoting the class warfare that you allege. I don't begrudge anybody their wealth, but I begrudge the system that allows and encourages only those of the monied class from having meaningful input into the political process through unlimited political contributions and junkets.

If this was the total case, you wouldn't have 25 year old Facebook founders becoming instant billionaires. Some of you people (not you Jersey) are acting like we don't have real opportunity anymore..

[ou48A]

Actually that's 100% impossible. "Most of us" can't achieve far higher wealth than "an average person", by definition. Unless you've got a very exclusive definition of "us".

You very wrong about that!
Virtually all of us can easily achieve a million dollars or more of net worth on even a teacher’s like salary... if you’re smart enough and have the necessary disciple that’s required… But we know most don’t have the required financial discipline…. but I have seen to many personal examples to very easily say that you’re just flat out very wrong!

[BoulderSooner]

Does anyone honestly think that if the super rich lost their money that much would change in the next 20 years ?

That your life would be greatly affected ?

So if I make 20 grand. And think those that make 100 grand are "rich". Can we raise the taxes on them also?

[Bellaboo]

So if I make 20 grand. And think those that make 100 grand are "rich". Can we raise the taxes on them also?

Did you know that 'rich' starts somewhere around 50 grand ?

I paid 25 k to the Feds one year and that was painful.....

[hoya]

You very wrong about that!
Virtually all of us can easily achieve a million dollars or more of net worth on even a teacher’s like salary... if you’re smart enough and have the necessary disciple that’s required… But we know most don’t have the required financial discipline…. but I have seen to many personal examples to very easily say that you’re just flat out very wrong!

"Most" people can't be "above average". That's what average means.

"Some" people absolutely have the ability to work and save, and when they are old and gray they can have a lot of money saved up. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about people whose wealth vastly outstrips the ones you are talking about.

[hoya]

If this was the total case, you wouldn't have 25 year old Facebook founders becoming instant billionaires. Some of you people (not you Jersey) are acting like we don't have real opportunity anymore..

I've never said that opportunities don't exist. But you also have to realize that most of the Facebook founders came from families that were already wealthy. So yeah, if you're a 20 year old at Harvard, and your dad is a millionaire, or your buddy's dad is a millionaire, you've got a great opportunity to get ahead in the world.

[trousers]

It's only class warfare when the poor people do it.

[ctchandler]

"Most" people can't be "above average". That's what average means.

Hoyasooner,
Have you not heard of Lake Wobegone, ""Well, that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.".
C. T.

[Jim Kyle]

Or, for that matter, the stated goal of LBJ's Great Society: To bring everyone above the average.

[Stew]

Eh, a million dollars is a long ways from being rich unless you got a great pension plan behind you. A million bucks will buy you a reasonable retirement age and middle class retirement. But, not rich in the least.

[Just the facts]

Why are people who 'make millions' being used as an example by anyone in this debate. That is not the group we are talking about. Also, no one is advocating taking all their money away. If Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and the Koch brothers can't afford to eat while paying the same effective tax rate as me then they must suck, because I eat and make a fraction of what they do.

[mugofbeer]

Hey, i'm pretty conservative but even i agree the truly wealthy should pay at a higher tax rate. I also belive a lot of tax deductions should be eliminated for those making well into 6 figures. Saying someone who makes $20k/yr should pay the same tax rate as someone making $200k is absurd..

[Urbanized]

...Saying someone who makes $20k/yr should pay the same tax rate as someone making $200k is absurd..

Well, they don't in case anyone is wondering. In most cases those making $200K pay more than twice the AGI tax rate of those making $20K. Put another way, they make 10X the money, but pay more than 20X the taxes. From IRS Announces 2015 Tax Brackets, Standard Deduction Amounts And More - Forbes :

Individual taxpayers



Individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses



Individuals filing separate returns

[hoya]

Well, they don't in case anyone is wondering. In most cases those making $200K pay more than twice the AGI tax rate of those making $20K. Put another way, they make 10X the money, but pay more than 20X the taxes. From IRS Announces 2015 Tax Brackets, Standard Deduction Amounts And More - Forbes :

What you ignore, of course, is that the people who are truly wealthy aren't making it in the form of taxable income. They're making it in investments and pay a far lower rate.

[Just the facts]

Urbanized- you need to get a different chart. Find one where the top bracket starts at $100 million per year. You keep lumping in the upper reaches of the middle class with the uber rich. We aren't talking about people who make $500K a year, or even $5 million.

If one's job is "investor" why shouldn't they pay the same tax rate as other people with jobs?

[Rover]

If one's job is "investor" why shouldn't they pay the same tax rate as other people with jobs?

They do pay the same rates. You must not earn much or have investments. You sure do hate the rich. Damn those people for being more successful and having more than you. Trying to figure out whether you are a Tea Partier, a socialist, or just mad at everyone who does better than you.

[zookeeper]

This thread is almost comical. The top 1/10 of 1% who own a hugely disproportionate amount of our wealth, must truly laugh at people like some of these posters that try to throw in a successful person making executive wages with those of the investor class and the hoarders of wealth. They really don't need to be held up as virtues of "success." They are killing our republic! I think more than a few of you made one too many trips to the old Enterprise Square museum and bought all that propaganda.

The simplicity of thinking, that sounds like an 8th grade economics class taught by material provided by WalMart and the United States Chamber of Commerce, is mind boggling. The obscene statistics are everywhere, yet you bring up how we are merely envious, or need to open up a passbook savings account, set a little aside each paycheck, maybe take an extra job (or two) and we can be part of that "successful" oligarchy, too!

You take a million people in this city - and statistically - the one tenth of one percent is 100 people owning more than the 999,900 put together (wealth - not income). Of course, we can't do that in a literal way in our city - but that should bring it home. Though, we could pretty much come up with a list of close to 100 if pressed.