The American Heartland Theme Park and Resort

[ManAboutTown]

I mean...finance is definitely a real thing. And we have no idea how many investors they already have. Bicknell (apparently the main investor) just received a documented tax return windfall of $63 million, and that was money that was initially taken from him - wrongly, according to the courts - as part of a transaction wherein he sold 800 Pizza Huts that he owned. Meaning the sale number was surely many multiples of that original tax withholding. The most recent pre-sale era revenue numbers I could find for NPC (his holding company) was half a billion in annual sales. I'm sure when he sold his shares what he ended up clearing was in the multiple hundreds of millions.

He also owns radio stations and other businesses, and Mansion Entertainment looks to be huge and growing in the fields of live entertainment, film and TV production, animation and others. They are the main sponsor for the 2024 Rose Parade. People like this know how to gain project financing.

And THG Creative just announced a partnership with American Heartland. Click on that link and you will find that they are a pretty massive player in the attractions industry.

Last but not least, Cathy O'Connor (former CEO for Oklahoma City's Alliance for Economic Development) just announced on social media that her consulting firm is working on this project, meaning that most likely they will be pursuing a dedicated TIF for the development's footprint and likely also any state incentives that make sense. All of this tells me that this is a pretty serious project, and far from a simple "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" call for investors. I think it's real, and I think these people know what they are doing when it comes to financing a project like this.

I agree. I think they still have a lot of moving parts to put together, but good businesses don't hire people like Cathy O'Connor on a whim. Her consulting firm is pretty pricey.

And if climate change keeps happening and Florida and California end up underwater, Oklahoma might just be the new Florida!

[Pete]

Reminder that the very dubious guy with Block 405 also hired Cathy O'Connor. So did Strawberry Fields some time ago.

Her involvement is by no means a stamp of credibility.

[Bunty]

There are more millionaires and billionaires than ever. So, it shouldn't be too hard to find financing for Heartland. Probably enough of them would think it would be cool with building the next Disney World. Musk was crazy enough to raise and pay $44 billion for Twitter. $250 million would just be pocket change to these billionaires. Or hog credit for the whole thing by throwing in $2 billion. The man behind it is wealthy and well accomplished himself, so would have some credibility with them.

[Urbanized]

Reminder that the very dubious guy with Block 405 also hired Cathy O'Connor. So did Strawberry Fields some time ago.

Her involvement is by no means a stamp of credibility.

Since I’m the one who mentioned Cathy’s announcement I suppose this is directed at me. I didn’t mention it to infer credibility, and not sure why you read it that way. I mentioned her because a previous poster had raised questions regarding funding.

While her involvement may or may not speak to the legitimacy of a client, I think we can agree that she has made a career out of connecting developers with public incentives. Her involvement infers a pursuit of incentive dollars, and also probably gives them an excellent chance of success in that specific regard. In no way speaks to the developer’s legitimacy, though I’ve come to believe they do indeed have more of that than I’d originally expected.

[PhiAlpha]

I mean...finance is definitely a real thing. And we have no idea how many investors they already have. Bicknell (apparently the main investor) just received a documented tax return windfall of $63 million, and that was money that was initially taken from him - wrongly, according to the courts - as part of a transaction wherein he sold 800 Pizza Huts that he owned. Meaning the sale number was surely many multiples of that original tax withholding. The most recent pre-sale era revenue numbers I could find for NPC (his holding company) was half a billion in annual sales. I'm sure when he sold his shares what he ended up clearing was in the multiple hundreds of millions.

He also owns radio stations and other businesses, and Mansion Entertainment looks to be huge and growing in the fields of live entertainment, film and TV production, animation and others. They are the main sponsor for the 2024 Rose Parade. People like this know how to gain project financing.

And THG Creative just announced a partnership with American Heartland. Click on that link and you will find that they are a pretty massive player in the attractions industry.

Last but not least, Cathy O'Connor (former CEO for Oklahoma City's Alliance for Economic Development) just announced on social media that her consulting firm is working on this project, meaning that most likely they will be pursuing a dedicated TIF for the development's footprint and likely also any state incentives that make sense. All of this tells me that this is a pretty serious project, and far from a simple "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" call for investors. I think it's real, and I think these people know what they are doing when it comes to financing a project like this.

I agree that financing would be the route he probably plans to take. But $2 Billion is a ton of money even for a guy worth several hundred million and it would seem odd maybe even foolish not to seek additional investors on it. Maybe the guy is capable of getting a substantial part of that $2 Billion in financing but it’s just seems hard to believe…especially for an amusement park in the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking). $1-2 billion in financing for a residential tower in the middle of an urban area or a resort on the coast? Sure but that would seem like a big ask for an amusement park in general let alone a start up that’s an hour from the closest large city (which is only 1 million people).

[Urbanized]

First off, we don’t know if he’s only worth a few hundred million dollars. I do know I read somewhere that his own son has an estimated net worth of $1 billion, independent of his father. Second, we don’t know if he’s the only investor. Could be that there’s a network of billionaires quietly chipping in because they like the guy’s politics or something. Who knows? We don’t, and that’s my point.

[PhiAlpha]

First off, we don’t know if he’s only worth a few hundred million dollars. I do know I read somewhere that his own son has an estimated net worth of $1 billion, independent of his father. Second, we don’t know if he’s the only investor. Could be that there’s a network of billionaires quietly chipping in because they like the guy’s politics or something. Who knows? We don’t, and that’s my point.

Fair enough. Definitely hope that’s the case

[Bunty]

I agree that financing would be the route he probably plans to take. But $2 Billion is a ton of money even for a guy worth several hundred million and it would seem odd maybe even foolish not to seek additional investors on it. Maybe the guy is capable of getting a substantial part of that $2 Billion in financing but it’s just seems hard to believe…especially for an amusement park in the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking). $1-2 billion in financing for a residential tower in the middle of an urban area or a resort on the coast? Sure but that would seem like a big ask for an amusement park in general let alone a start up that’s an hour from the closest large city (which is only 1 million people).

At least the circumstances you brought up didn't keep Branson from being a long-term success to this day.

[fortpatches]

At least the circumstances you brought up didn't keep Branson from being a long-term success to this day.

What do you mean? Branson wasn't made by one person or one main investor... None of those circumstances are at all pertinent to Branson except maybe being in the middle of nowhere.

[fortpatches]

It seems their marketing is confusing at least some people....

Disney Bringing Enchanting New Theme Park to Oklahoma | stupidDOPE

[warreng88]

It seems their marketing is confusing at least some people....

Disney Bringing Enchanting New Theme Park to Oklahoma | stupidDOPE

Yeah, that's just bad research... I was thinking it was a parody, like a lost ogle type of site, but it is not.

[fortpatches]

Yeah, that's just bad research... I was thinking it was a parody, like a lost ogle type of site, but it is not.

That was my first thought, too. I had to double check to make sure it wasn't some parody / joke site before I commented. People responded to their tweet about it, commenting how they were wrong.

[catch22]

Well that’s Dope. And stupid.

[PhiAlpha]

At least the circumstances you brought up didn't keep Branson from being a long-term success to this day.

Uh…wut? How does your comment make any relative sense in response to mine? How does a situation in which potentially one guy wants to build a $2 billion destination resort and theme park in a 3 year timeframe in the middle of nowhere under today’s economic circumstances in general but especially regarding theme parks…compare in anyway to Branson outside of an off the beaten path location?

[shavethewhales]

I've seen a few people bring up Branson in relation to the location of this development and getting established, and I don't think it compares that well. Branson did not randomly happen out in the sticks. Branson has been a tourist destination for a long time, even before the Table Rock Dam was built. It was a major fishing/camping/outdoor destination with fishing guides/camps all along the white river. When the dam was built, tourism grew, and then when the country stars started the trend of opening their own theatres it really exploded. This all happened decades ago when things were completely different and it has grown and evolved for decades. Obviously opening a hotel or a country music theatre today is a completely different investment/risk calculation than today. SDC, the large theme park people keep trying to compare this to, grew from a cave attraction in 1960 and didn't start adding major roller coasters on a regular basis until the 2000's.

Just completely different growth than trying to kick things off all at once. The only good example of someone building a giant theme park out in the middle of nowhere and making it work is Walt Disney with Disney World, and Disney was already a powerhouse at that point with DW being their second park, and Orlando wasn't THAT far away or THAT small.

I guess the fact that it's partially drawing people from the lake resorts and attractions is a similarity, so they aren't completely out in the middle of nowhere. Still not like they have an established resort town in the vicinity.

[Swake]

I've seen a few people bring up Branson in relation to the location of this development and getting established, and I don't think it compares that well. Branson did not randomly happen out in the sticks. Branson has been a tourist destination for a long time, even before the Table Rock Dam was built. It was a major fishing/camping/outdoor destination with fishing guides/camps all along the white river. When the dam was built, tourism grew, and then when the country stars started the trend of opening their own theatres it really exploded. This all happened decades ago when things were completely different and it has grown and evolved for decades. Obviously opening a hotel or a country music theatre today is a completely different investment/risk calculation than today. SDC, the large theme park people keep trying to compare this to, grew from a cave attraction in 1960 and didn't start adding major roller coasters on a regular basis until the 2000's.

Just completely different growth than trying to kick things off all at once. The only good example of someone building a giant theme park out in the middle of nowhere and making it work is Walt Disney with Disney World, and Disney was already a powerhouse at that point with DW being their second park, and Orlando wasn't THAT far away or THAT small.

I guess the fact that it's partially drawing people from the lake resorts and attractions is a similarity, so they aren't completely out in the middle of nowhere. Still not like they have an established resort town in the vicinity.

Orlando was pretty small back when Disney World was hatched. Disney World opened in 1971, and back in the early 1960s when Disney started planning and buying land Orland was just a large town. The 1960 census had Orlando with just 88,135 people and the Orlando metro area at only 263,540. Just a bit larger than Joplin, Mo today (51,762 city/181,460 metro), just as a comparison. Orlando is only 20 miles from Disney World, but then Joplin is only 40 miles from Vinita. Disney World does have Tampa about 55 miles away, but that’s just like Vinita has Tulsa 55 miles away. Back in 1960 Tampa’s metro population was 820,443. Tulsa’s population today is over a million.

Highways also are a difference. Vinita is on I-44, a major interstate that connects it to Tulsa and Joplin. Orlando did not have that in the early 60s. There was no interstate connecting Orlando to even Tampa yet.

I’m not saying this is going to happen or be the next Disney, but you can’t compare Disney today to this project, you should compare the situation and site for Disney when it started.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think in some aspects of it being a small town it can be compared to Disney but I’d be surprised if it ended up anything like Disney or the quality of Disney. The only reason I mentioned that is them being built out in the sticks.

[Pete]

Florida had been growing massively long before Disney opened in Orlando; in fact as a percentage it grew more in the 60s and 70s than any other time.

That crazy growth, temperate weather, massive tourism and access to the huge population on the East Coast are the exact reasons Disney built there.

There is absolutely no comparison to tiny and shrinking Vinita, Oklahoma and nearly stagnate Joplin, Missouri.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes there is. Orlando was not at all growing and the NWA along with NE Oklahoma is growing in tourism so the comparison in that regard is valid IMO.

[Plutonic Panda]

I could easily see Tulsa becoming the next austin type city a mega region from Tulsa to Osage to SW Missouri and NWA and Springfield along with Tahlequah and Grand Lake.

OKC becomes the mega economic engine for Oklahoma much like Dallas or Houston.

[Jake]

In order to reach their ambitious opening date, won’t they need to break ground immediately?

[Pete]

Yes there is. Orlando was not at all growing and the NWA along with NE Oklahoma is growing in tourism so the comparison in that regard is valid IMO.

This is nonsense.

Orlando quadrupled in size from 1950 to 1970 and Central Florida -- along with the rest of the state -- was growing at an incredibly fast rate.

The Orlando MSA is now twice the size of OKC and growing at a much, much faster rate. It won't be long before the population of the Orlando MSA is larger than the entire state of Oklahoma.


An attempt to compare this to Vinita, OK (population 5,000 and dropping) is absurd.

[Plutonic Panda]

Ok we’ll see

[Pete]

I could easily see Tulsa becoming the next austin type city a mega region from Tulsa to Osage to SW Missouri and NWA and Springfield along with Tahlequah and Grand Lake.

OKC becomes the mega economic engine for Oklahoma much like Dallas or Houston.

Tulsa is growing at a slow rate and has been for decades.

Some pie-in-the-sky theme park in Vinita 60+ miles away is not going to change that.

[Plutonic Panda]

Tulsa is growing at a slow rate and has been for decades.

Some pie-in-the-sky theme park in Vinita 60+ miles away is not going to change that.

Right now it is but the potential for growth is there. We’ll see what happens. I personally don’t care and I’m not expecting much. My opinion of Tulsa is it’s not a very nice town but has potential. I don’t like the place but I could see it building off of NWAs momentum.

Maybe the exact comparisons between current vanita and 1950 Orlando don’t make sense but my point is they are/were very small towns for the size of the theme parks proposed of course Disney was much larger and ambitious.