Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[dankrutka]

The only reason a city needs to replace an arena that is in good shape is if there are new innovations to arenas that put older ones at a disadvantage. The last such major innovation were the addition of more suites. Key Arena in Seattle lacked them. As of now, there is no reason to think the Peake couldn't last another 30, 40, 50 years as long as it is kept up and there are no new major innovations that require a new building. Anyway, just pushing back on the idea that a new arenas is inevitably needed in the next 15-20 years.

[Pete]

^

Right, the big recent wave of new arenas and stadiums was to accommodate suites which generate tons of income.

Until some new revolution comes along -- if it ever does -- the only real changes would be cosmetic.

[BoulderSooner]

^

Right, the big recent wave of new arenas and stadiums was to accommodate suites which generate tons of income.

Until some new revolution comes along -- if it ever does -- the only real changes would be cosmetic.

OKC could maybe support more suites then they currently have (but really we have about the correct amount)


this upgrade would adress really the only other issues the peake has when compared to other arenas more bar /restaurant spaces for both the lower level and for loud city ..

[Pete]

I would bet that more suites could be added without a ton of pain if that was really deemed to be important.

But if it was, you'd think this would be the time for them to ask.

[HOT ROD]

double post

[HOT ROD]

I'd much rather MAPs 4 fund these improvements to the Chesapeake Arena and let the state fair board fund their coliseum with their existing revenue stream. Seems to be a best use of public funds since 1) more than just the Thunder use the Peake and 2) most of the improvements are capital and not Thunder specific (If they were, then I'd ask the Thunder to invest in those items as well).

Im a little surprised the original ideas that were cut (children's area, arena practice floors, rooftop bars (northern end)) were not resurrected here. These would definitely add to the arena experience (although the practice floor is Thunder specific, and therefore should be Thunder funded) and realise the original vision of the arena.

Nevertheless, Easy vote on this one but Maps 4 needs to exclude the Fairgrounds arena!!!

[BoulderSooner]

I'd much rather MAPs 4 fund these improvements to the Chesapeake Arena and let the state fair board fund their coliseum with their existing revenue stream. Seems to be a best use of public funds since 1) more than just the Thunder use the Peake and 2) most of the improvements are capital and not Thunder specific (If they were, then I'd ask the Thunder to invest in those items as well).

Im a little surprised the original ideas that were cut (children's area, arena practice floors, rooftop bars (northern end)) were not resurrected here. These would definitely add to the arena experience (although the practice floor is Thunder specific, and therefore should be Thunder funded) and realise the original vision of the arena.

Nevertheless, Easy vote on this one but Maps 4 needs to exclude the Fairgrounds arena!!!

the fair grounds arena is a no brainer yes

[onthestrip]

Id say we get them to commit to a longer guaranteed lease term if we do this.

These upgrades look good and I'd be for them. The practice facility, not so much. Not used by the public, we've already paid for what they have and why would they need $15 million more for a practice gym? I dont think we gave them that much the first time.

As for sports stadiums in MAPS imo:
CHK Arena, yes
State fair arena, sure, I guess so. The big house does need a replacement.
Soccer stadium, just dont see the need right now and could be pushed out til next MAPS go around.

[gopokes88]

I would bet that more suites could be added without a ton of pain if that was really deemed to be important.

But if it was, you'd think this would be the time for them to ask.

Suites have kinda fallen out of style in the nba. Companies like them but the real prized tickets are floor seats.

[Pete]

And I can tell you that there is a tipping point where too many suites suck the life out of an arena.

Staples Center is a very good example. There is a smallish lower bowl, a huge bank of suites, then the upper seating that feels like its in a separate building. It completely kills the atmosphere IMO, even at a rowdy hockey match.

[PhiAlpha]

The only reason a city needs to replace an arena that is in good shape is if there are new innovations to arenas that put older ones at a disadvantage. The last such major innovation were the addition of more suites. Key Arena in Seattle lacked them. As of now, there is no reason to think the Peake couldn't last another 30, 40, 50 years as long as it is kept up and there are no new major innovations that require a new building. Anyway, just pushing back on the idea that a new arenas is inevitably needed in the next 15-20 years.

EXACTLY. I know we’ve both posted some variation of this 100 times over the years but I wish more people understood it.

[Laramie]

The enhancements for the arena are worth the investment to keep our facility current. An NBA franchise in our community offers a statement of how much improved our quality of life has elevated since 1990.

NBA is global; its positive impact bodes well for our city in ways that are immeasurable.

It's not a matter to pick and choose; hope MAPS 4 can address & finance the needs of as many projects as possible.

[BDP]

Nevertheless, Easy vote on this one but Maps 4 needs to exclude the Fairgrounds arena!!!

Well, the horse shows do have a similar economic impact (or greater, if you go by the studies). That doesn't really speak to the way it's funded, but from a ROI stand point, the fairgrounds arena may actually make more sense.

Also, does the Thunder pay the city taxes as mentioned above? Maybe it expired or there are other tax angles, but didn't we exempt them from sales tax... at least on ticket sales?

[BDP]

The only reason a city needs to replace an arena that is in good shape is if there are new innovations to arenas that put older ones at a disadvantage. The last such major innovation were the addition of more suites. Key Arena in Seattle lacked them. As of now, there is no reason to think the Peake couldn't last another 30, 40, 50 years as long as it is kept up and there are no new major innovations that require a new building. Anyway, just pushing back on the idea that a new arenas is inevitably needed in the next 15-20 years.

True. Madison Square Garden has been where it is for 60 years or so (with major renovations) and I'd consider it still relevant.

I like where the arena is, too. Hopefully, in 20 years or so, there won't be a site left downtown that's big enough to build a new arena on. (crosses fingers)

[gopokes88]

And I can tell you that there is a tipping point where too many suites suck the life out of an arena.

Staples Center is a very good example. There is a smallish lower bowl, a huge bank of suites, then the upper seating that feels like its in a separate building. It completely kills the atmosphere IMO, even at a rowdy hockey match.

this times a million

[The Shadow]

Question is....if they were to add more suites, would they be able to sell them. They're not exactly cheap.

[BDP]

Question is....if they were to add more suites, would they be able to sell them. They're not exactly cheap.

Not if it was this year. Ha.

[CCOKC]

I saw new seats and I am sold. I have sat in the same seat now for 10+ years for Thunder games and it could definitely use an upgrade. I was pleasantly surprised by how many of the uprades are fan facing which are used for more than NBA games.

[BoulderSooner]

True. Madison Square Garden has been where it is for 60 years or so (with major renovations) and I'd consider it still relevant.

I like where the arena is, too. Hopefully, in 20 years or so, there won't be a site left downtown that's big enough to build a new arena on. (crosses fingers)

the last Garden (which is a far bigger structure) renovation was in 2011-2013 and was over 1 Billion dollars ..

[RedDollar]

The only reason a city needs to replace an arena that is in good shape is if there are new innovations to arenas that put older ones at a disadvantage. The last such major innovation were the addition of more suites. Key Arena in Seattle lacked them. As of now, there is no reason to think the Peake couldn't last another 30, 40, 50 years as long as it is kept up and there are no new major innovations that require a new building. Anyway, just pushing back on the idea that a new arenas is inevitably needed in the next 15-20 years.

KeyArena did not have a large enough " footprint" according to David Stern's statements, that he made several times. It wasn't large enough to add restaurants and other fan amenities that the team could use to boost revenue. Last count I heard, the CHK arena has seven restaurants.

But the real problem in Seattle was the financing method of the 1995 remodel of KeyArena. They paid for it with bonds. And then dedicated part of ticket sales , parking, and concessions to pay off the bonds. That worked OK as long as the team was winning and attendance was high. But the team went into the doldrums, as the Thunder are headed to now, and there was not enough revenue to meet the bond payments.

The City was behind on the bond payments and the political atmosphere in Seattle was very adverse to raising taxes for sports facilities. This left the City between a rock and a hard place. The key to Bennett getting the team out of Seattle, was an offer to pay the $40 million remaining debt on the arena which was coming due in 2010.

Other NBA teams with new arenas were generating larger revenues and able to pay higher NBA salaries. Sonics could not do that and that contributed to the death spiral. The team got worse and attendance continued to suffer.

I don't recall suites having anything at all to do with the problems of KeyArena.

[BoulderSooner]

KeyArena did not have a large enough " footprint" according to David Stern's statements, that he made several times. It wasn't large enough to add restaurants and other fan amenities that the team could use to boost revenue. Last count I heard, the CHK arena has seven restaurants.

But the real problem in Seattle was the financing method of the 1995 remodel of KeyArena. They paid for it with bonds. And then dedicated part of ticket sales , parking, and concessions to pay off the bonds. That worked OK as long as the team was winning and attendance was high. But the team went into the doldrums, as the Thunder are headed to now, and there was not enough revenue to meet the bond payments.

The City was behind on the bond payments and the political atmosphere in Seattle was very adverse to raising taxes for sports facilities. This left the City between a rock and a hard place. The key to Bennett getting the team out of Seattle, was an offer to pay the $40 million remaining debt on the arena which was coming due in 2010.

Other NBA teams with new arenas were generating larger revenues and able to pay higher NBA salaries. Sonics could not do that and that contributed to the death spiral. The team got worse and attendance continued to suffer.

I don't recall suites having anything at all to do with the problems of KeyArena.

key areana has no club level and limited suites for that size of a market . .. .and has limited seating in general

united center chicago has 3 levels of suites ..

[bchris02]

Id say we get them to commit to a longer guaranteed lease term if we do this.

These upgrades look good and I'd be for them. The practice facility, not so much. Not used by the public, we've already paid for what they have and why would they need $15 million more for a practice gym? I dont think we gave them that much the first time.

As for sports stadiums in MAPS imo:
CHK Arena, yes
State fair arena, sure, I guess so. The big house does need a replacement.
Soccer stadium, just dont see the need right now and could be pushed out til next MAPS go around.

I agree with this. I think that the CHK arena upgrades should be a part of MAPS 4 instead of the soccer stadium. The arena does NOT need to be replaced however.

The soccer stadium seems like a waste in my opinion. OKC is a one major-league team town and will be for the foreseeable future. I'd say the same thing if the discussion was about trying to lure MLB.

[BoulderSooner]

I agree with this. I think that the CHK arena upgrades should be a part of MAPS 4 instead of the soccer stadium. The arena does NOT need to be replaced however.

The soccer stadium seems like a waste in my opinion. OKC is a one major-league team town and will be for the foreseeable future. I'd say the same thing if the discussion was about trying to lure MLB.

the thing is a soccer stadium in fine ... but there is no need to spend more than about 20 mil on it ... what is proposed is like buying a lambo or ferri for a 16 year old instead of a new f150 or accord

[Easy180]

I saw new seats and I am sold. I have sat in the same seat now for 10+ years for Thunder games and it could definitely use an upgrade. I was pleasantly surprised by how many of the uprades are fan facing which are used for more than NBA games.

Sums it all up pretty well. Almost everything benefits us average Joe’s that attend events at the arena.

[BDP]

the last Garden (which is a far bigger structure) renovation was in 2011-2013 and was over 1 Billion dollars ..

Thanks, Boulder. That's one of the major renovations to which I referred.