Convention Center

[bchris02]

I think it just takes a mindset change for a lot of people. It's just different for people who get places via cars their entire lives. This is the first year I've been able to bike to campus everyday, and I absolutely love it.

It's going to take some time to get Oklahomans used to and comfortable with walking and mass transit. This is a state and city that has pretty much only known car culture its entire existence.

[shawnw]

This is a state and city that has pretty much only known car culture its entire existence.

Since streetcars were very prevalent here from 1903-1947 I'm going to disagree with this statement. Now if you say something like "it's entire post-war existence", then okay...

[soonerguru]

It's going to take some time to get Oklahomans used to and comfortable with walking and mass transit. This is a state and city that has pretty much only known car culture its entire existence.

WRONG. This city was founded as a dense urban city with inner-city and inter-city transit options being the norm. It became a sprawling car city after WWII.

[ljbab728]

bchris02 is obviously exhibiting his lack of knowledge about OKC's history to make negative points.

[betts]

I believe that anywhere from Crown Heights south, if there's a boulevard, there was a streetcar line. There are still tracks in the road on 4th St. going under the RR bridge. And then there was the OKC-Norman train. Very sad

[mkjeeves]

Oklahoma City is taking her sweet time and putting feelers out there to see if a convention center hotel with or without the need of public subsidies can be achieved. Unfortunately, any major hotel chain wanting to build a 700-800 room mega hotel know that there are $30 million in a contingency fund just waiting to be tapped.

A smart-aggressive hotel chain is going to 'French kiss' Oklahoma City until a tonsillectomy is performed on that contingency fund and OKC regurgitates some dollars.

They (hotel chains) know that Oklahoma City is 'in heat' for a convention center hotel and that she will do just about anything to get the convention center & convention center hotel constructed concurrently.

Some few may feel that way but not "Oklahoma City".

From upthread:

Support for convention center, not hotel
In a News9/Oklahoma Gazette poll of Oklahoma City residents conducted this year, questions were asked about the public’s support for MAPS 3 and the convention center project.

Fifty-four percent of residents surveyed said they either strongly support or somewhat support using MAPS 3 funding to build a new downtown convention center. Thirty-eight percent were somewhat opposed or strongly opposed. The poll received responses from 980 residents with a margin of error at 3.13 percent.

However, when it came to using public funds to help construct a new convention center hotel, 71 percent were somewhat opposed or strongly opposed.

[bchris02]

bchris02 is obviously exhibiting his lack of knowledge about OKC's history to make negative points.

What is untrue or negative about what I said? It's a fact its going to take some time to get this city used to walking and taking transit. That's not negative spin, that's a fact. Secondly, this city only has a very short history prior to the advent of the automobile. I never said it was a sprawling car city since the beginning. I said that car culture has been here since the beginning which is true. Mass transit did exist though and it wasn't until after WWII that it was dismantled.

[ljbab728]

I said that car culture has been here since the beginning which is true. Mass transit did exist though and it wasn't until after WWII that it was dismantled.

I'm sorry, but that isn't true. There was no car culture in 1889.

[mkjeeves]

here was no car culture in 1889.

or density

[shawnw]

There were more residents within the boundaries of that map then than there are now.

[borchard]

I love what has been going on in OKC since the first MAPS vote. I have voted for all of them, and I have been wonderfully impressed by ALL of the developments that have happened directly, and indirectly, because of MAPS. I happily voted for Mick Cornett in the last election, ESPECIALLY because of what Ed Shadid was spewing about stopping projects.
I remember after the first MAPS vote there were naysaying voices who wanted to de-fund the arena, saying we didn't need it. Is ANYONE saying that now?
IMHO, people who saying things like, "We don't need "X" right now, so why build it?" are idiots with no foresight.
We didn't "need' the Ford Center, but we built it...and then when there was a chance to get an NBA team we already had a paid-for arena.
We don't "need" a streetcar right now, but if we wait until we absolutely need one (like Dallas) it's almost too late. Their roads are so clogged I don't think the light rail has much effect at all.
We may not "need" a Convention Center right now, but why not get ahead of the game?
As a fairly Tea-Party Libertarian I'm gonna use a naughty politic word (for me at least) :-) We need to be "progressive"

[Just the facts]

or density

You need to look closer at the map then because the area adjacent to train station is pretty dense and there sure isn't any sprawl into the countryside.

[mkjeeves]

You need to look closer at the map then because the area adjacent to train station is pretty dense.

I (we) were speaking about OKC as a whole. It was about as dense as a whole in the 1890's as our 1950-60s burbs, if even that dense.

[Urbanized]

Pretty impressive if you ask me. A year (or less) prior, the area shown in that picture was empty prairie in a frontier wilderness. Most of the areas lacking density in that photo hadn't been built on yet. By the turn of century and the teens, the area we now think of as downtown OKC was remarkably dense.

[Teo9969]

You can't look at the empty space in the middle of those and cry out (not dense). If that picture was built out at the average density in OK today, there would be somewhere between 7 and 11 houses on each large block (meaning don't count the narrow streets)

[mkjeeves]

OKC as a whole became somewhat dense two to three decades after it was established, which lasted three to four decades. In other words, for historical perspective, OKC achieved some level of density for about the second fourth of its current lifespan. It wasn't before and it wasn't after.

[traxx]

It's going to take some time to get Oklahomans used to and comfortable with walking and mass transit. This is a state and city that has pretty much only known car culture its entire existence.

I think I get what you're saying. I believe there's been some misunderstanding about your statement by other posters.

Older cities like Philadelphia or Chicago or San Francisco were established well before mass production of the automobile. Whereas OKC was established only about 15 years prior to the mass production of automobiles. So the automobile has always been an option as a mode of transportation during OKC's existence. Not to say that OKC didn't also have mass transit along the way, but we've had the auto through almost our entire history. That's going to spur a different kind of development than a city that was built for walking, horses and carriages because the car did not exist.

[OKCinsomniac]

...

In the cc case. The owner decided after a while that the ed process. Was the best way to go. But not in a contentious way

IMHO that is because of the community standing of the owners. They will go with the decision. Of the panel and not appeal.

I seem to recall an article several months ago, where the owners of the property said instead of having blood on the walls by fighting over a price in public, that they told the city they'd rather go through the eminent domain process. I see no foul here if that's what the city and the property owners agreed to. Who cares?

I think this is the most likely situation - letting a third party decide the value of the land relieves either side from the appearance / possible charges of impropriety in the process. It doesn't seem like there is really an issue here...

[soonerguru]

BREAKING NEWS: Per William Crum of the Oklahoman, Ed's convention center folks missed the signature deadline. (SIMPSON'S KID VOICE) Ha ha!

Per his twitter feed:

Advocates of initiative to call vote on MAPS 3 convention center miss deadline to submit signatures. #OKC #MAPS

[catcherinthewry]

^Like

[Bellaboo]

Great ! Maybe Dred will go away now.

[hoya]

1) I bet losing the mayoral election took the wind out of Shadid's sails. Once that happened he threw up his hands and quit. It shouldn't have been that hard to collect 6,000 signatures.

2) Seeing Ed abandon his goal like that may disillusion some of his followers. It makes it look like a political ploy to draw out MAPS-haters to the polls for Shadid.

[Paseofreak]

Look like my a**!

[soonerguru]

1) I bet losing the mayoral election took the wind out of Shadid's sails. Once that happened he threw up his hands and quit. It shouldn't have been that hard to collect 6,000 signatures.

2) Seeing Ed abandon his goal like that may disillusion some of his followers. It makes it look like a political ploy to draw out MAPS-haters to the polls for Shadid.

All of us here have expressed some reservations about this project at one time or another. But this just shows how ineffectual Shadid is at getting ANYTHING accomplished. If there was any low-hanging fruit to pick from the MAPS 3 ballot, this was it. And he got nothing done. Thank GOD he is not our mayor.

[DoctorTaco]

All of us here have expressed some reservations about this project at one time or another. But this just shows how ineffectual Shadid is at getting ANYTHING accomplished. If there was any low-hanging fruit to pick from the MAPS 3 ballot, this was it. And he got nothing done. Thank GOD he is not our mayor.

This is a good observation.