Ideas 4 MAPS

[jonny d]

Steve's chat at NewsOK had people from the State Fair Board on. They mentioned that financial information is available in multiple places (I saw their Form 990, feel free to Google it). They have audits, as well (available through open records) I know people on here always bash them for those things. Just spreading some info.

[Goon]

I haven’t seen a comment on this here, so excuse me if it has been discussed, but in Bill Crum’s article he wrote that the Energy ownership said they would move the team out of OKC if the taxpayers don’t give money for a new stadium. Personally I find this disgusting and distasteful, and I can’t imagine voters being thrilled to pony up after such a naked threat. Not cool at all, certainly not gracious, and even perhaps disqualifying. It’s as if they are saying this is “their” money, not ours. This also belies the description of this as a city development and not one for the benefit of the soccer team.

Would certainly make for a more palatable offer to voters.

In the meantime, I'll be interested to see how well Funk's statements today that he would consider moving the Energy if their bid for a stadium is rejected for MAPS 4 inclusion will play...

for reference, Soonerguru... I literally said this on the page before this one.

It is disgusting, and very indicative of who we're dealing with if they pitch a "multi-use stadium" out of one side of their mouth, but talk about moving the team out of the other.

As for the "sports tourism complex" someone else mentioned...you are right in that was the part of the CB Cameron remodeling. What's disappointing about the idea is the $$ they are asking to invest there can almost certainly have a MUCH better ROI if they would venture just a few miles south.

OKC Parks has over 20 regulation soccer fields a few miles from the CBD, but rather than distributing the 15-30 million earmarked for Cameron in places that already have infrastructure issues settled and would greatly benefit from the investment, they seek to create a new park. This dilutes the overall parks system and only really serves one purpose: to give FC Energy a ready-made complex to go with their new stadium.

I for one hope the council sees through this and spread any investment earmarked for parks evenly throughout the city. Anyone who would tell you we need a Cameron remodel because we can't draw a regional tournament by adding fields to South Lakes Park or marketing the fact that SL, Wisenhunt and Lightening Creek together have over 25 regulation fields is lying.

[Laramie]

I'm sorry. Your statement just seemed out of context in the thread line up.

Just to clarify, the argument is that parents with means travel around with their kids in these elite sports leagues and they compete in higher-grade facilities. The argument is that it creates sport tourism revenues for the city.

What statement???

Challenge you, Urban Pioneer, GO BACK, pull up the QUOTE: you said I made a statement that just seemed out context in the thread line up. You won't find a statement or comment, because I didn't make one.

[shawnw]

Steve's chat at NewsOK had people from the State Fair Board on. They mentioned that financial information is available in multiple places (I saw their Form 990, feel free to Google it). They have audits, as well (available through open records) I know people on here always bash them for those things. Just spreading some info.

Thank you for passing along

[Laramie]

Recap: OKC Central Live Chat with Steve Lackmeyer: https://oklahoman.com/article/563824...teve-lackmeyer

by Steve Lackmeyer
Published: Fri, August 9, 2019 5:32 AM Updated: Fri, August 9, 2019 11:31 AM

Guest said:
How do we know there is a financial need if the Fair Board does not open their books to the public? If they get public money and tax dollars shouldn't we know? Could they use their bonding capacity to borrow the money and pay it back using the hotel/motel tax money they get?

Web User replied:

TIM: Oklahoma State Fair Inc's financial records have been public with the City of Oklahoma for over 20 years. They are filed with the city annually when the audit is presented and accepted by the Oklahoma State Fair Inc. board.

It's a certified financial audit. It's required in our lease agreement with the City of Oklahoma City.

We do not receive any public money. The hotel/motel money is directly deposited into the City of Oklahoma City's accounts. Every expenditure of that money goes through the City of Oklahoma City purchasing process and is ultimately approved by the city council. So all of those expenditures are public record.

State Fair Inc. does not have that type of bonding capacity. I assume the bonding capacity you are referring to is through the hotel/motel tax.

The last bond indenture statement filed with the city in February said the hotel/motel tax indebtedness was about $77.5 million as of June, 2017. In a course of the year, the indebtedness was reduced by $2.7 million to $74.8 million.

It has been discussed that when there is capacity available to supplement the MAPS 4 allocation to build the colosseum. Keep in mind, architectural fees have already been paid from the hotel/motel tax - about $3.4 million to date.

STEVE: During the presentation to the council, Mayor David Holt discussed the future bonding capacity which he estimated would be available in a few years. What are we looking at?

TIM: We don't know. The City of Oklahoma City manages all of that through their financial advisors and timing of bond issues.

[gopokes88]

I think the soccer stadium is going to be odd one out. State fair board has enough political power to get on. The thunder will be taken care of, they are too important to the city and state to risk it.

[baralheia]

for reference, Soonerguru... I literally said this on the page before this one.

It is disgusting, and very indicative of who we're dealing with if they pitch a "multi-use stadium" out of one side of their mouth, but talk about moving the team out of the other.

It's important to note, once again, that USL will NOT allow the Energy to continue playing at Taft. All USL teams must either play in - or have a transition plan in place to move to - a stadium capable of supporting regulation professional soccer when the 2020 season begins. If there is no stadium, the Energy can't play in OKC anymore. Simple as that.

[d-usa]

Isn’t any funding for the Peake attached to an unspoken “so the Thunder won’t leave in the future”?

[Urban Pioneer]

All previous MAPS initiatives have benefited pubic & private endeavors in many ways:

Chesapeake Energy Arena, Civic Center Music Hall, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark & State Fair Arena to name several... ...yet we don't have a regulation soccer-American football stadium.

If you want to make a case of wealthy ownership; then our Thunder ownership consists of one billionaire & six multimillionaires, much greater funding source than the ownership group of the Energy FC. Oklahoma City is fortune to be the home to one of 30 NBA franchises.

In all fairness, are Thunder ownership being asked to pay one penny toward the improvements to our city-owned arena?

This seemed out of context. The previous the 14 posts were about the sports tourism complex.

[PoliSciGuy]

Giving money to millionaires to keep their sports teams around is a sucker bet, minor league or professional. OKC has tremendous potential, MAPS has done some great stuff, but there are still significant needs in infrastructure, quality of life, education and other things. I'm saddened by the amount of people on here willing to fork over more public money for a losing investment.

[Laramie]

This seemed out of context. The previous the 14 posts were about the sports tourism complex.

The thread: Ideas for MAPS is where I posted the above. Again, I didn't know anything about the Sports Tourism to address that matter. All I pointed out was public as well as private endeavors have benefited from previous MAPS initiatives in response to those who claim the Energy FC owners should pay for the stadium.

Appreciate your response, the work you have done and what you are currently doing on the city's MAPS projects. You've investment much of your personal time to help our city, thanks again; continue to keep us informed.

[Goon]

It's important to note, once again, that USL will NOT allow the Energy to continue playing at Taft. All USL teams must either play in - or have a transition plan in place to move to - a stadium capable of supporting regulation professional soccer when the 2020 season begins. If there is no stadium, the Energy can't play in OKC anymore. Simple as that.

Fair enough.

[soonerguru]

It's important to note, once again, that USL will NOT allow the Energy to continue playing at Taft. All USL teams must either play in - or have a transition plan in place to move to - a stadium capable of supporting regulation professional soccer when the 2020 season begins. If there is no stadium, the Energy can't play in OKC anymore. Simple as that.

Fine. Again, why do the taxpayers have to foot the bill for this guy’s stadium? And making it city owned only means the city will be on the hook for maintaining yet another facility. Hard pass on that.

I believe Goon’s point was that the ownership is pitching this as multiuse but its really just a clever nomenclature for “my new soccer stadium.”

Why does the ownership have no financial plan to finance their own stadium? Why does 100% of the ask fall on the public’s shoulder, benefiting this privately owned organization? This is the knd of “free market” crony capitalism we have come to expect. And no, the Energy will never be transformative like the Thunder were for this city.

[Pete]

BTW, how many live music events are at Bricktown Ballpark? Also owned by the city and in the middle of an entertainment district and yet there in never much there other than baseball.

Sports stadiums are not well-suited for that purpose and we have way more venues for music than we have shows.


This stadium will be used for the Energy and not much else. People need to be realistic about this.

[jonny d]

BTW, how many live music events are at Bricktown Ballpark? Also owned by the city and in the middle of an entertainment district and yet there in never much there other than baseball.

Sports stadiums are not well-suited for that purpose and we have way more venues for music than we have shows.


This stadium will be used for the Energy and not much else. People need to be realistic about this.

Well yeah. But if the city got a competent promoter for it, then there would be probably 2 or 3 festivals that annually bypass OKC that would be more apt to come here (think rock/metal summer shows that never come here). A quality outdoor venue for concerts would do wonders for this city, since OKC may be the only large city without one (the Zoo is not good, lets be honest).

[Pete]

Well yeah. But if the city got a competent promoter for it, then there would be probably 2 or 3 festivals that annually bypass OKC that would be more apt to come here (think rock/metal summer shows that never come here). A quality outdoor venue for concerts would do wonders for this city, since OKC may be the only large city without one (the Zoo is not good, lets be honest).

If it was that easy it would have already been done.

[Laramie]

Well yeah. But if the city got a competent promoter for it, then there would be probably 2 or 3 festivals that annually bypass OKC that would be more apt to come here (think rock/metal summer shows that never come here). A quality outdoor venue for concerts would do wonders for this city, since OKC may be the only large city without one (the Zoo is not good, lets be honest).

OKC has provided an arena to lure NHL-NBA when we didn't have a franchise, built a ballpark downtown to keep from losing AAA baseball; now its time for a multipurpose stadium to retain USL with expansion potential to lure MLS.

We'll never have a chance to find out because if we don't pass MAPS 4 with a quality multipurpose stadium, this may be the last chance. By the time we push MAPS 5 in 2028, you're talking about a 10,000 seat stadium that will swell to a whooping $200 million minimum without an anchor tenant in waiting.

No private owner will risk building a facility of this magnitude entirely with private funds. Funk-McLaughlin & Clark are not among Oklahoma's 7 riches, nor do the 3 combined = the wealth of 1 of Oklahoma's 7 riches.

If the Thunder ownership were pushing the stadium thru MAPS and owned the Energy FC--we wouldn't be having this conversation...

Oklahoma doesn't possess the multimillionaires & billionaires who can build a private stadium or arena, very few of these MLB, NFL. MLS stadiums & NBA, NHL arenas are privately owned.

[Laramie]

...and another thing, not knocking the Thunder ownership, just saying.

We have an opportunity to maintain a variety of sports (NBA, PCL, USL, Rodeo & possibly return of ice hockey) in our city's sports entertainment portfolio, improve our quality of life thru MAPS 4 addressing the needs of--those abused, those with mental health & those rehabilitating.

OKC can craft a MAPS initiative to address 70% toward community based programs/projects and 30% toward capital improvements on arenas-stadium infrastructure. All of these programs & projects amount to about $950 million will much improve our city. We can do them all...

[d-usa]

If the beef is with a private team being the primary tenant, MAPS 4 is already dead with the Peake being the same ask.

We build the Peake and the Ballpark under the same basic deal: the city builds something and a team will be the main beneficiary by having a place to rent and play. The Peake didn’t even have a main team to benefit when it was build. And now people are saying that paying for the Peake is a good thing because it will prevent the Thunder from leaving while at the same time complaining that if the lack of city money makes a team leave them good riddance.

The issue is not with building a city facility with a private team paying rent, lets at least be honest with that. We were fine, and continue to be fine, with a city owned facility for the Thunder and the Dodgers. The issue isn’t with funding a city facility for a minor league team, because we build and maintain the Ballpark. Attendance may be more plausible, but the Dodgers have only 2,000 more butts on average.

We don’t have a city owned stadium and the Zoo seems to have plans to get rid of the Amp. People are willing to throw more money at the Thunder and the Fairgrounds to get better facilities and keep teams and events from leaving town. I know there are plenty of reasons to be against a stadium, questions about economic impacts and impact on neighborhoods as well as the unknown costs of land. But it just irks me a bit to be against private teams renting it and being mad at talks about teams leaving when it appears to be a double standard.

Unrelated: I looked at the plans again for the fairgrounds and noticed that the arena is going to take up a good chunk of parking lot. If I recall that was part of the parking lot that was supposed to have landscaping and other things to make it look more pleasant. That just makes me think that they knew the long term plan was to tear up the parking lot anyway so why bother. And it also makes me think that they knew that when they presented the plans for the parking lot in the first place.

[OkiePoke]

What do we charge the Thunder for using the Peake? Does OKC get the money for the naming rights?

[d-usa]

I was thinking this weekend, and I really think that the nature of MAPS really makes a difference for me. As much as I am for the Stadium, I would be completely opposed to it if the city would go into debt to pay for it. The “pay as you go” nature of MAPS really made/makes a lot of the projects much more palpable.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^absolutely. When I talk about MAPS to out of towners, especially those in the civic/urban/downtown world they are all beyond impressed by that fact.

[Geographer]

Has there ever been a proposed MAPS project that has been backed and talked about by City leadership and other powerful orgs (Chamber) that didn't make it into the final listing of projects that went to the vote?

[gopokes88]

Steve doing a chat with bob funk. He’s getting lit up with tough questions.

[jonny d]

Bob Funk Jr. is on Steve's OKC Central chat today, and I never realized how hateful people can be. Take aim at the project, sure. Criticize it however you like, but there are a lot of personal shots being taken at him and Express. Bugs the heck out of me how people feel the need to bash him personally for the project, and doing what any sound businessman would do. But that's just me, and I am not a very radical or hateful person.