Population Growth for OKC

[Plutonic Panda]

In other words, "I refuse to acknowledge your experience because it is not mine." Cool bro...

Oh please I even said it was my opinion. A little reading comprehension goes along way. I swear this forum has some of the most thin skinned posters I’ve seen on any forum online.

Using your logic I could’ve copied and paste exactly what you said to a vast majority of the latest posts here. It is a meaningless response you posted.

Edit: I should not have said the whole forum rather than a select few posters who pull this crap. I should not have to emphasize every time I post my opinion that is an opinion.

[EBAH]

Yeaaaaaaaah I’m usually the first to criticize OKC but as someone who doesn’t want to live there I am still calling bull on many of the claims made agains the city. It’s a matter of opinion of course, but after having been to many art museums and cultural attractions as I get more involved with it in LA, I see OKC has some pretty good museums and amenities. Obviously they compare to what a cosmopolitan city can offer but how many cities of OKC’s size does? Tulsa is incredibly lucky to have something like the Gilcrease Museum. I often here many in LA community complain that our museums are lacking even with having a museum like The Getty.

As far as some of the other criticisms like “the city is geared for old white people,” what a quick way to instantly ruin any credibility you had. Mayor Holt even just came out and said he is making seeking a more diverse voice for the city one of his main objectives. Quit living in the past. OKC is a very diverse city. Almost every time I’m in the core I always here a chatter of about 2-3 foreign languages and I constantly meet foreigners who have settled down there and love it. My entire family is Persian and Brazilian and they love OKC. No issue with “amenities geared towards white old people.”

I mean, man, it's fine if you disagree, and I get you may have different tastes, but really, I've lived here for 38 years, I also travel VERY extensively, I do go to other museums, I do take in a lot of other places and a lot of the available things here. Also, for the thousanth time, dude all I Was commenting on really was that we don't have a diverse enough labor market for me to find a job here doing what I do that pays what I cost. It's as simple as that, we don't have tech, we don't have consumer products companies. We just don't have the jobs, and my original post was that yeah I find a lot of the amenities lacking, but the art I make with friends and the scene I'm in here makes up for that. But, we don't have jobs for me. But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much. I mean dude, I went to a fabulous Jean Arp exhibition at the Nasher a month or so ago in Dallas, across from the retrospective on American Precisionism at DMA, a little while prior to that I went to the Stuart Davis retrospective at Crystal Bridges, and on and on and on, these are all actually super softball, wide audience kind of traveling exhibits and still massively better than the bible exhibits and paper dress exhibits that the OKCMOA get (I mean we have an impressionism exhibit coming up, but godamn man, its not the 60's). I do actually know what I'm talking about and I find your tone pretty condescending. I don't hate this city at all, but it IS geared to middle class families from the suburbs for the most part because that's who pays the bills. Fact is if youre like me and are 38 and dont have kids around here and haven't moved to Moore or Edmond, you're weird and this city isn't really made for you. But really, I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's my home, born and raised and I enjoy it too, I just always wish it could grow out of it's comfy little niche and be a little more edgy, a little more exciting.

[Plutonic Panda]

I mean, man, it's fine if you disagree, and I get you may have different tastes, but really, I've lived here for 38 years, I also travel VERY extensively, I do go to other museums, I do take in a lot of other places and a lot of the available things here. Also, for the thousanth time, dude all I Was commenting on really was that we don't have a diverse enough labor market for me to find a job here doing what I do that pays what I cost. It's as simple as that, we don't have tech, we don't have consumer products companies. We just don't have the jobs, and my original post was that yeah I find a lot of the amenities lacking, but the art I make with friends and the scene I'm in here makes up for that. But, we don't have jobs for me. But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much. I mean dude, I went to a fabulous Jean Arp exhibition at the Nasher a month or so ago in Dallas, across from the retrospective on American Precisionism at DMA, a little while prior to that I went to the Stuart Davis retrospective at Crystal Bridges, and on and on and on, these are all actually super softball, wide audience kind of traveling exhibits and still massively better than the bible exhibits and paper dress exhibits that the OKCMOA get (I mean we have an impressionism exhibit coming up, but godamn man, its not the 60's). I do actually know what I'm talking about and I find your tone pretty condescending. I don't hate this city at all, but it IS geared to middle class families from the suburbs for the most part because that's who pays the bills. Fact is if youre like me and are 38 and dont have kids around here and haven't moved to Moore or Edmond, you're weird and this city isn't really made for you. But really, I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's my home, born and raised and I enjoy it too, I just always wish it could grow out of it's comfy little niche and be a little more edgy, a little more exciting.

Sorry dude but when you use a stupid term like “geared towards old white people” you loose credibility.

Have a seat and join the travelers but because he/she can bond with you over your opinions that my tone is condescending. I really could care less what you think.

[bchris02]

But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much.

Yes, OKC is the buckle of the Bible Belt and is proud of it. As somebody who has experienced a lot of religious trauma in my life, including ex-gay conversion therapy, this specific issue makes it hard for me to live in OKC even though the urban core is more liberal and more secular. In fact, living in the urban core is the only thing that has made this place tolerable for me at all. I'm sure I'll take some heat for saying this.

[David]

In fact, living in the urban core is the only thing that has made this place tolerable for me at all. I'm sure I'll take some heat for saying this.

Even coming from a different perspective (non-gay, none of those experiences), I understand where you are coming from with this and agree to a large degree. I would probably not still be here either without the more liberal and secular urban core growing and doing its thing.

[GoGators]

Even coming from a different perspective (non-gay, none of those experiences), I understand where you are coming from with this and agree to a large degree. I would probably not still be here either without the more liberal and secular urban core growing and doing its thing.

I’ve lived in the urban core for years. I have a fairly large base of friends who live in the core and I maybe know 1 to 2 people who are even remotely religious. But I’ve never really ran into that problem anywhere I’ve been in Oklahoma. I even grew up in rural western Oklahoma and went to school at OSU and in both places the vast majority of the people I knew and interacted with weren’t religious. Of course this could be a unique experience of mine and people of like mind usually find each other. The “Bible Belt” thing about Oklahoma has just never been a problem for me.

[jonny d]

Yes, OKC is the buckle of the Bible Belt and is proud of it. As somebody who has experienced a lot of religious trauma in my life, including ex-gay conversion therapy, this specific issue makes it hard for me to live in OKC even though the urban core is more liberal and more secular. In fact, living in the urban core is the only thing that has made this place tolerable for me at all. I'm sure I'll take some heat for saying this.

While I agree with you that OKC is in the Bible Belt, calling it the buckle is asinine. You are just used to seeing the stuff here. Texas is probably worse, and I am sure there are states east of Texas much worse than Oklahoma.

[hoya]

I mean, man, it's fine if you disagree, and I get you may have different tastes, but really, I've lived here for 38 years, I also travel VERY extensively, I do go to other museums, I do take in a lot of other places and a lot of the available things here. Also, for the thousanth time, dude all I Was commenting on really was that we don't have a diverse enough labor market for me to find a job here doing what I do that pays what I cost. It's as simple as that, we don't have tech, we don't have consumer products companies. We just don't have the jobs, and my original post was that yeah I find a lot of the amenities lacking, but the art I make with friends and the scene I'm in here makes up for that. But, we don't have jobs for me. But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much. I mean dude, I went to a fabulous Jean Arp exhibition at the Nasher a month or so ago in Dallas, across from the retrospective on American Precisionism at DMA, a little while prior to that I went to the Stuart Davis retrospective at Crystal Bridges, and on and on and on, these are all actually super softball, wide audience kind of traveling exhibits and still massively better than the bible exhibits and paper dress exhibits that the OKCMOA get (I mean we have an impressionism exhibit coming up, but godamn man, its not the 60's). I do actually know what I'm talking about and I find your tone pretty condescending. I don't hate this city at all, but it IS geared to middle class families from the suburbs for the most part because that's who pays the bills. Fact is if youre like me and are 38 and dont have kids around here and haven't moved to Moore or Edmond, you're weird and this city isn't really made for you. But really, I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's my home, born and raised and I enjoy it too, I just always wish it could grow out of it's comfy little niche and be a little more edgy, a little more exciting.

I'll tell you the same thing I told bchris02. If you're one of those people whose happiness requires something Oklahoma just doesn't have, then this probably isn't the place for you.

If your dream is to be a deep sea fisherman, then you need to go somewhere next to an ocean. If you want to look out your window and see the Statue of Liberty, well we don't have that here. You're not going to be able to train for the Olympic snowskiing team here in a state with no big mountains and no snow. Oklahoma has a lot of great amenities for a lot of different people, but if you want something super-specialized, we very well may not have it. I don't think most cities our size are going to have the things you desire. If you're only gonna be happy in a city of 10 million people, then by all means follow your dreams.

But I think you may have a hard time finding a city with tons of ultra specialized art galleries, operas, ballets, and is majority non-white and non-Christian and also is within your price range. Every city on Earth is a compromise to some degree.

[EBAH]

Yeaaaaaaaah I’m usually the first to criticize OKC but as someone who doesn’t want to live there I am still calling bull on many of the claims made agains the city. It’s a matter of opinion of course, but after having been to many art museums and cultural attractions as I get more involved with it in LA, I see OKC has some pretty good museums and amenities. Obviously they compare to what a cosmopolitan city can offer but how many cities of OKC’s size does? Tulsa is incredibly lucky to have something like the Gilcrease Museum. I often here many in LA community complain that our museums are lacking even with having a museum like The Getty.

As far as some of the other criticisms like “the city is geared for old white people,” what a quick way to instantly ruin any credibility you had. Mayor Holt even just came out and said he is making seeking a more diverse voice for the city one of his main objectives. Quit living in the past. OKC is a very diverse city. Almost every time I’m in the core I always here a chatter of about 2-3 foreign languages and I constantly meet foreigners who have settled down there and love it. My entire family is Persian and Brazilian and they love OKC. No issue with “amenities geared towards white old people.”

Wait you don't even live here? and dude I live "in the core" hahahaha omg

[Plutonic Panda]

Wait you don't even live here? and dude I live "in the core" hahahaha omg

I am not sure why you find that funny but no, I live in Los Angeles. I was born in OKC and raised in Dallas in my early teen years and OKC my later Years.

[EBAH]

I am not sure why you find that funny but no, I live in Los Angeles. I was born in OKC and raised in Dallas in my early teen years and OKC my later Years.

Well, it's not really funny, I'm just saying you're jumping on me saying my art museums are adequate, there are plenty of things to do, there are plenty of good amenities, it's diverse enough, yadda yadda, and like, man, I LIVE here, and have every year of the last 38, 2-3 miles outside of the very center, I ride my bike through this city every day, I make art here, I spend my money here, I entertain myself here. And yes, the large institutions are mostly targeted at white middle class families and as an actual citizen of this city 24 hours a day, I experience that. It's not funny that you don't live here, it's laughable at your supposed expertise in MY home.

[Mike_M]

Well, it's not really funny, I'm just saying you're jumping on me saying my art museums are adequate, there are plenty of things to do, there are plenty of good amenities, it's diverse enough, yadda yadda, and like, man, I LIVE here, and have every year of the last 38, 2-3 miles outside of the very center, I ride my bike through this city every day, I make art here, I spend my money here, I entertain myself here. And yes, the large institutions are mostly targeted at white middle class families and as an actual citizen of this city 24 hours a day, I experience that. It's not funny that you don't live here, it's laughable at your supposed expertise in MY home.

Exactly. This dude has barely lived here and gets all his information from an online message board. Trying to tell lifelong citizens they don't know their own city.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, it's not really funny, I'm just saying you're jumping on me saying my art museums are adequate, there are plenty of things to do, there are plenty of good amenities, it's diverse enough, yadda yadda, and like, man, I LIVE here, and have every year of the last 38, 2-3 miles outside of the very center, I ride my bike through this city every day, I make art here, I spend my money here, I entertain myself here. And yes, the large institutions are mostly targeted at white middle class families and as an actual citizen of this city 24 hours a day, I experience that. It's not funny that you don't live here, it's laughable at your supposed expertise in MY home.

So as another poster said and I’ll use his/her words against you, your experience invalidates mine and makes it laughable. Okay gotcha.

So the underlying premise here that makes you right and me wrong is a few things: 1) I don’t know OKC 2) I don’t live there and you do which by default means you know more about the city than I do 3) you’re connoisseur who knows anything and everything arts and diversity in OKC and since you’ve traveled the world other be damned should they disagree with your take of OKC’s art scene 4) OKC’s art scene is geared towards white old families. Did I hit the nail on the head with that one?

Either way, you can have the last word. The only comment geared towards you in my original post was calling you out in making it about race which is such a cheap shot. The rest of what I wrote was providing opposing viewpoints as an attempt to counter Catch 22’s among the various other comments criticizing OKC. I’m always down to criticize OKC. I respect your opinion of OKC. I disagree with it and I think you don’t know what you’re talking about, and I am suspect of many of your claims. But whatever. Again, have the last word. Cheers!

[dankrutka]

I live in DFW and so here's a few thoughts.

First, DFW's sprawl mitigates some of its advantages because traffic and distance make the additional amenities unrealistic. For example, DFW has an MLB team. Guess what? Getting to Arlington is a nightmare so we never actually go even though we'd love to. It's worth pointing out that there's no public transportation to Arlington because of greedy billionaires who control city councils and wanted to make huge profits off parking. Many of the same sprawl reasons apply to the MLS team in Frisco. Still, the Mavs and Stars are easier to see as there actually is public transportation that can get you there and the area is more worth visiting. So, DFW should be better than it is. Moreover, since DFW is sprawly, it really doesn't have the urban fabric it should have. Yes, Deep Ellum and Bishop Arts are great (if not gentrifying) districts, but are they that much better than the Plaza District and OKC's other emerging districts? Moreover, I'll point out that OKC's brewery scene, for example, is flat out better than DFWs. The density of breweries in the core and quality of breweries makes it a better place for craft beer drinkers... and breweries are actually great community spaces. Anyway, just pointing out that some areas where DFW should be great are just not the case.

I lost the rest of this post because the site made me re-log in for same reason, but I wrote a long explanation of how DFW does have real advantages too (e.g., LGBTQ, Mexican-American communities) and you can live in walkable areas and avoid the traffic (I do). Sorry, I just can't retype out that part of my post again.

[bchris02]

First, DFW's sprawl mitigates some of its advantages because traffic and distance make the additional amenities unrealistic. For example, DFW has an MLB team. Guess what? Getting to Arlington is a nightmare so we never actually go even though we'd love to. It's worth pointing out that there's no public transportation to Arlington because of greedy billionaires who control city councils and wanted to make huge profits off parking. Many of the same sprawl reasons apply to the MLS team in Frisco. Still, the Mavs and Stars are easier to see as there actually is public transportation that can get you there and the area is more worth visiting. So, DFW should be better than it is. Moreover, since DFW is sprawly, it really doesn't have the urban fabric it should have. Yes, Deep Ellum and Bishop Arts are great (if not gentrifying) districts, but are they that much better than the Plaza District and OKC's other emerging districts? Moreover, I'll point out that OKC's brewery scene, for example, is flat out better than DFWs. The density of breweries in the core and quality of breweries makes it a better place for craft beer drinkers... and breweries are actually great community spaces. Anyway, just pointing out that some areas where DFW should be great are just not the case.

Just a few years ago I would have said DFW and Texas was light years ahead but now I'd say I'm pretty satisfied with the beer scene in OKC. I also think Oklahoma will probably end up with recreational marijuana before Texas even has medical.

I think what may be really needed is a change in marketing approach for OKC. More people need to be made of aware of niche activities OKC does offer. What changes are needed or what they would look like, I'm not sure.

[Plutonic Panda]

Regarding sprawl and traffic making trips to certain amenities not worthwhile, you just described every major in the US.

[mugofbeer]

Yes, to some extent but not to others. DFW is special when it comes to how much land it takes up and how much it has changed in 20 years since I lived there. It is nothing short of colossally huge - then there's the Ft. Worth side.......

[chuck5815]

I can’t think of any reason why I would drive to Dallas because it “has something OKC doesn’t.”

[bchris02]

I can’t think of any reason why I would drive to Dallas because it “has something OKC doesn’t.”

I'm going this weekend to hit up the bars in Oak Lawn. OKC has nothing like it.

But I definitely see your point.

[mugofbeer]

I can’t think of any reason why I would drive to Dallas because it “has something OKC doesn’t.”

Half my fun of going to DFW is to see all the new building, rail and highway construction. There are always new things - gotta see the new baseball stadium next.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Half my fun of going to DFW is to see all the new building, rail and highway construction. There are always new things - gotta see the new baseball stadium next.

It’s quite a city. I’m with you, checking out all that’s new is incredibly fun.
Houston is the same way, just not the quick drive from OKC.

[Mike_M]

Okay this has spun out of control, and I'll admit some fault on that.

I just want to clarify that I don't think that this is a racist place. That is not what I or EBAH are insinuating. I've enjoyed my entire time in Oklahoma as a person of color. Outside of general ignorance, I've never experienced real racism.

What we are saying is that the vast majority of consumers, leaders, and politicians in Oklahoma are caucasian. By no fault of their own or the businesses that serve them, everything here is catered to that majority in a very obvious way. It is likely not a big deal to most people, but it is frustrating that people who do not drink the Kool-Aid that Oklahoma is on the cutting edge are dismissed. There are a lot of us who, while we appreciate the strides OKC has made, based on what we have experienced elsewhere, there are other cities who just do what OKC does better. Some of us don't have 5-10 years to just wait for it to maybe get where we want it to be. Some of us don't have time or resources to "do it ourselves". It's just a fact that there are people in this city/state who have lifestyle preferences that don't line up with what it offers. I don't think it's fair to just assume we haven't Oklahoma'd correctly.

And Dallas doesn't count in my opinion. I feel like I'm driving through a giant mall when I'm there. It feels so inorganically grown because they literally just bring every store, every brand, every restaurant, every amenity and put it on every corner. It's like the Dubai of America.

[bchris02]

There are a lot of us who, while we appreciate the strides OKC has made, based on what we have experienced elsewhere, there are other cities who just do what OKC does better. Some of us don't have 5-10 years to just wait for it to maybe get where we want it to be. Some of us don't have time or resources to "do it ourselves". It's just a fact that there are people in this city/state who have lifestyle preferences that don't line up with what it offers. I don't think it's fair to just assume we haven't Oklahoma'd correctly.

This is me 100%. I'll probably be in OKC one more year, unless something unexpected happens. After that my current plan is to move even if I have to pick a city and just go. I'm currently working on saving enough so that I have a cushion in case it takes me some time to find employment. The last thing I'd want to do is leave and end up back here broke and unemployed. But I've also reached the point in my life where it's getting time to "crap or get off the pot" as they say. I either need to move somewhere that I feel is a better fit or I just need to accept living in OKC long-term and buy a house here.

And Dallas doesn't count in my opinion. I feel like I'm driving through a giant mall when I'm there. It feels so inorganically grown because they literally just bring every store, every brand, every restaurant, every amenity and put it on every corner. It's like the Dubai of America.

As a last resort I may end up moving to Dallas, but it's not my favorite city and there are others I'd rather move to. However, as a single gay mid-30s man, I think I'd be happier in Dallas than in OKC, despite its drawbacks like traffic and sprawl. I can see myself living there and liking it.

I've tried everything I know how to do to force myself to be happy in OKC because after all, it would be so much easier for me to just stay here and put down roots than to move.

[GoGators]

The reason I have chosen to move to, and stay in Oklahoma City is because of the opportunity be a part of building something.

I kind of look at it like a job. Living in NYC or Seattle etc is like working for Google. Well established, stable, you will get all the perks that come with that but (most people) are not going to have any real say in the direction the company goes.

Living in OKC is kind of like joining a startup company. Not nearly as many perks, and the pay isnt as good. The start up may never truly be successful or make it big. But you can jump in and have an actual say in how things get done. There is access to get involved more and maybe become a decision maker. And since you are in on the ground floor, if the start up does make it big you will reap a much larger reward.

That's just how I have come to look at it. I definitely understand the pull of the major city and i have lived in several different ones including Dallas, and Dallas ain't it. Dallas is greatly overrated. You get all of the hassles of a major city with almost zero perks. Besides the job market being hot, Ive never understood the pull Dallas has.

[Jeepnokc]

But you can jump in and have an actual say in how things get done. There is access to get involved more and maybe become a decision maker. And since you are in on the ground floor, if the start up does make it big you will reap a much larger reward.
.

Very true as shown by the recent elections for City Council and Mayor. Lots of young new blood which is great.