to be fair, Kansas City is a MUCH larger city than we are, maybe not by KCMO pop, but the metro area of KC is at least 1 million more people and also has a much longer history of being a larger market city. I mean, I am a big fan and have spent a lot of time there but it is not a comparable sized market, we are far more of an 'Advanced Wichita'
KC is not only much bigger, there has been an even more substantial size differential for over 100 years.
In 1960, their MSA was 3x the size of OKC, and they were in the Top 20 nationally until the 70s when people became much more mobile and started moving south and west.
They've had a massive head start which also provided some great urban fabric and fantastic advantages, like The Plaza (1923) which is a holdover from when KC was the biggest city west of the Mississippi apart from LA and SF.
KC is very much an old city by American standards while almost all of OKC is still very new. It's not at all fair to compare the cities, especially when it comes to urbanization.
I have spent a lot of time in KC over the years. The urban fabric for the 40 blocks or so between Downtown and The Plaza is not something we can easily replicate. It's older and far more developed. And the neighborhoods due south of the Plaza, along Ward Parkway and State Line and reaching a few miles (but not more than a few) into Kansas are "graceful" in a way that very little is in OKC, apart from a narrow slice. That's not a knock on OKC; it's just not the way neighborhoods are built anymore, which is a shame because it's an elegant look that extends to the little neighborhood shopping centers as well.
But having said all that, I actually think KC is a good model for OKC. It's bigger but it's not SO MUCH bigger that it can never be reached in our lifetimes. We are MUCH closer to being a KC, for example, than we are to a Dallas. And yet, inexplicably, people just genuflect to Dallas. I say this because the KC metro area is growing, but at a manageable rate. The city is seeing reasonable urban development at a pace that OKC could emulate and isn't that far from, and also, because KC, apart from a few exceptions, is basically a "small and medium sized business" city rather than a place where big Fortune 500's cluster. That is OKC too. It has some deficits in terms of politics and fragmentation that OKC avoids, to our credit.
Imagine if we had something like The Plaza in Midtown.
Instead, as recently as 30 years ago, that area was almost completely abandoned.
I love these conversations, what are the lessons we can learn from those cities, both in what to implement and what to avoid. Being late to the party can have its own advantages. I really don’t enjoy silly jokes. And please, avoid quotes from Einstein’s conversation with Chaplin or something that makes you sound smarter, they aren’t particularly helpful.
Indeed, Pete. The Plaza can not be replicated. From an architectural and walkability standpoint, the ship sailed long ago.
OKC could compete just in terms of a cluster of higher-end retail if OAK, Penn Square, Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza were integrated more seamlessly with each other. If they were more tightly bound and flowed together and you could easily walk between/among them, the city could just about get there from that standpoint. I find myself wishing OAK could have been built where that Wal-Mart development is.
You still wouldn't have the density of housing that exists around the Plaza.
By the way, if you ever want to lurk on Kansas City projects...the website is www.kcrag.com
I never post on there because I don't really feel qualified to contribute but it's fun to watch development there.
OKCTalk is miles ahead of KCRag and is many, many miles ahead of the smaller St. Louis version, which is www.urbanstl.com.
But to be fair, OKCTalk is also a lot more comprehensive. This site is much more than just urban development.
In KC right now, and this is exactly on point. You can see how some of OKC is trending in the right direction, but being able to walk from district to district on well lit sidewalks from the center of downtown has been amazing. Been north toward the market and south to endless bars, breweries and restaurants and it is so nice that there aren't 3 block (or more) gaps. Such a fun city.
With the new arena and soccer stadium projects in the pipeline in OKC, why don’t we pitch to The Cordish Company to build a sports-anchored district around these, similar to what they’ve done with the Power and Light District in Kansas City, Ballpark Village in St. Louis, or their other sports & entertainment district projects?
https://www.cordish.com/businesses/s...ored-districts
I believe that’s the plan around the soccer stadium. Hotel, Residences and Retail Restaurants
Sorry if I missed this, but doesnt anyone know the pricing to go for just the water park? Or do you have to book a room to use it?
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