OKANA Resort & Indoor Waterpark

[Oski]

I've been there many times and I enjoy the city. It has a lot going for it, but I question your criteria for a great city if having a Shake Shack is a major selling point.
And for the record I wasn't denigrating KC, I was referencing a song from the musical Oklahoma!, must've gone over your head.

You're right, who would travel 5 hours just for mediocre burgers? But some on this forum may.

[EBAH]

^^^
I just returned from a trip to KCMO, and as much as it pains me to admit, Kansas City is further ahead of OKC, much more than I thought. There's so much more to do, numerous places to visit, and the city stays lively well into the night. It’s clear that more money is being spent—and made—over there. The projects they have in the pipeline are also more ambitious. On top of it all, the city is blessed with stunning natural terrain, such an elegant city.

to be fair, Kansas City is a MUCH larger city than we are, maybe not by KCMO pop, but the metro area of KC is at least 1 million more people and also has a much longer history of being a larger market city. I mean, I am a big fan and have spent a lot of time there but it is not a comparable sized market, we are far more of an 'Advanced Wichita'

[citywokchinesefood]

to be fair, Kansas City is a MUCH larger city than we are, maybe not by KCMO pop, but the metro area of KC is at least 1 million more people and also has a much longer history of being a larger market city. I mean, I am a big fan and have spent a lot of time there but it is not a comparable sized market, we are far more of an 'Advanced Wichita'

It feels more like the crystal light version of DFW.

[bison34]

It feels more like the crystal light version of DFW.

EBAH hates everything about OKC because we don't have a Gucci, Prada, Fendi and Hermes. Hence why he compared us to Wichita. There are tons of other cities he could have used, but he chose Wichita for a reason.

[Pete]

KC is not only much bigger, there has been an even more substantial size differential for over 100 years.

In 1960, their MSA was 3x the size of OKC, and they were in the Top 20 nationally until the 70s when people became much more mobile and started moving south and west.

They've had a massive head start which also provided some great urban fabric and fantastic advantages, like The Plaza (1923) which is a holdover from when KC was the biggest city west of the Mississippi apart from LA and SF.

KC is very much an old city by American standards while almost all of OKC is still very new. It's not at all fair to compare the cities, especially when it comes to urbanization.

[stlokc]

I have spent a lot of time in KC over the years. The urban fabric for the 40 blocks or so between Downtown and The Plaza is not something we can easily replicate. It's older and far more developed. And the neighborhoods due south of the Plaza, along Ward Parkway and State Line and reaching a few miles (but not more than a few) into Kansas are "graceful" in a way that very little is in OKC, apart from a narrow slice. That's not a knock on OKC; it's just not the way neighborhoods are built anymore, which is a shame because it's an elegant look that extends to the little neighborhood shopping centers as well.

But having said all that, I actually think KC is a good model for OKC. It's bigger but it's not SO MUCH bigger that it can never be reached in our lifetimes. We are MUCH closer to being a KC, for example, than we are to a Dallas. And yet, inexplicably, people just genuflect to Dallas. I say this because the KC metro area is growing, but at a manageable rate. The city is seeing reasonable urban development at a pace that OKC could emulate and isn't that far from, and also, because KC, apart from a few exceptions, is basically a "small and medium sized business" city rather than a place where big Fortune 500's cluster. That is OKC too. It has some deficits in terms of politics and fragmentation that OKC avoids, to our credit.

[Pete]

Imagine if we had something like The Plaza in Midtown.

Instead, as recently as 30 years ago, that area was almost completely abandoned.

[Oski]

I love these conversations, what are the lessons we can learn from those cities, both in what to implement and what to avoid. Being late to the party can have its own advantages. I really don’t enjoy silly jokes. And please, avoid quotes from Einstein’s conversation with Chaplin or something that makes you sound smarter, they aren’t particularly helpful.

[stlokc]

Indeed, Pete. The Plaza can not be replicated. From an architectural and walkability standpoint, the ship sailed long ago.

OKC could compete just in terms of a cluster of higher-end retail if OAK, Penn Square, Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza were integrated more seamlessly with each other. If they were more tightly bound and flowed together and you could easily walk between/among them, the city could just about get there from that standpoint. I find myself wishing OAK could have been built where that Wal-Mart development is.

You still wouldn't have the density of housing that exists around the Plaza.

[pickles]

@PhiAlpha and @catcherinthewry: If you're in the real estate or restaurant industries, I highly recommend paying a visit to Kansas City, MO. You might pick up some valuable ideas. It's no coincidence that Populous and MANICA are headquartered there. Chicken & Pickle, BARK, and Parlor all originated in Kansas City, MO, the last time I checked. I almost never visit a city just to wander around, I wish I had time for that. But knowing where you stand, and continuously learning from others, will take you far. People are always doing something cool somewhere, it isn't a bad idea to keep an open mind. Even if real estate or restaurants aren't your things, I still recommend visiting before making any bets. You’ll find that, unfortunately, some people still have to p**p outside in KC. Anyway, Kansas City has Shake Shack, which is worth the trip. If you're unsure where it is, I'd be happy to mark it on your map.

You can eat at Shake Shack in airports, my dude.

[stlokc]

By the way, if you ever want to lurk on Kansas City projects...the website is www.kcrag.com

I never post on there because I don't really feel qualified to contribute but it's fun to watch development there.

[Pete]

By the way, if you ever want to lurk on Kansas City projects...the website is www.kcrag.com

I never post on there because I don't really feel qualified to contribute but it's fun to watch development there.

Thanks.

One area where we have KC beaten badly: OKCTalk is much bigger and more active!

[stlokc]

OKCTalk is miles ahead of KCRag and is many, many miles ahead of the smaller St. Louis version, which is www.urbanstl.com.

But to be fair, OKCTalk is also a lot more comprehensive. This site is much more than just urban development.

[mattjank]

I have spent a lot of time in KC over the years. The urban fabric for the 40 blocks or so between Downtown and The Plaza is not something we can easily replicate. It's older and far more developed. And the neighborhoods due south of the Plaza, along Ward Parkway and State Line and reaching a few miles (but not more than a few) into Kansas are "graceful" in a way that very little is in OKC, apart from a narrow slice. That's not a knock on OKC; it's just not the way neighborhoods are built anymore, which is a shame because it's an elegant look that extends to the little neighborhood shopping centers as well.

In KC right now, and this is exactly on point. You can see how some of OKC is trending in the right direction, but being able to walk from district to district on well lit sidewalks from the center of downtown has been amazing. Been north toward the market and south to endless bars, breweries and restaurants and it is so nice that there aren't 3 block (or more) gaps. Such a fun city.

[progressiveboy]

In KC right now, and this is exactly on point. You can see how some of OKC is trending in the right direction, but being able to walk from district to district on well lit sidewalks from the center of downtown has been amazing. Been north toward the market and south to endless bars, breweries and restaurants and it is so nice that there aren't 3 block (or more) gaps. Such a fun city.

Love the Plaza district in KC and such beautiful homes on Ward Parkway.