Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)

[BoulderSooner]

on friday of this week we will pass 15 million unemployment claims in the last 3 weeks alone that takes unemployment to almost 15%

16.8 million people have now filed for unemployment benefits in the last 3 weeks

and JPMorgan sees it getting worse

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/jpmo...20percent.html

[Bill Robertson]

It may turn out that an immunosuppressant and an antibiotic somehow help with some of the symptoms of this virus (google "cytokine storm") but it's very unlikely that it's a magical cure that will make up for the disaster that's been created.

Following your argument we should staff hospitals with naturopaths, faith healers, and voodoo priestesses. While that's happening, people think they'll just be cured so they don't need to take precautions against being infected anymore, and time and money are pulled away from the development of treatments that might actually help.

I'm all for grasping at straws but sometimes false hope is worse than no hope at all...

I haven’t heard anyone call hydroxychloroquine /antibiotic/zink treatment either magical or a cure. Simply a treatment to alleviate symptoms.
And I wouldn’t want to be the guy telling a dying person “We can’t give you this therapy because it might just be false hope that won’t work anyway”. It might not work but what if it does.

[chuck5815]

So weird that overall deaths in the country are falling. But I'm told that 9,681 Americans definitely died on April the 8th.

Looks like the real number would end up closer to: 8,047.50

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm
Table 1. Deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), pneumonia, and influenza reported to NCHS by week ending date, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 4/4/2020.*

Data as of April 9, 2020

Week ending date in which the death occurred	All COVID-19 Deaths (U07.1)1	Deaths from All Causes	Percent of Expected Deaths2	All Pneumonia Deaths (J12.0–J18.9)3	Deaths with Pneumonia and COVID-19 (J12.0–J18.9 and U07.1)3	All Influenza Deaths (J09–J11)4
Total Deaths	4,065	501,444	88	35,230	1,879	4,467
2/1/2020	0	56,381	95	3,617	0	452
2/8/2020	0	56,713	95	3,599	0	482
2/15/2020	0	55,237	94	3,577	0	487
2/22/2020	0	54,810	94	3,418	0	501
2/29/2020	5	54,401	111	3,453	3	569
3/7/2020	18	53,626	93	3,538	11	553
3/14/2020	45	50,942	89	3,450	22	529
3/21/2020	415	48,612	85	3,706	192	435
3/28/2020	1,764	44,532	80	4,146	809	301
4/4/2020	1,818	26,190	47	2,726	842	158

[mkjeeves]

^As of a week ago.

We’re approaching 17,000 deaths in the US and 100,000 worldwide.

[OKC Talker]

I haven’t heard anyone call hydroxychloroquine /antibiotic/zink treatment either magical or a cure. Simply a treatment to alleviate symptoms.
And I wouldn’t want to be the guy telling a dying person “We can’t give you this therapy because it might just be false hope that won’t work anyway”. It might not work but what if it does.

How would you feel telling a dying person "Sorry you can't get this treatment that might actually work because we're trying something that we know doesn't, just in case it's different this time!"

[Rover]

How would you feel telling a dying person "Sorry you can't get this treatment that might actually work because we're trying something that we know doesn't, just in case it's different this time!"

Or how about "we're giving you this even though we really haven't tested it and have no real evidence it works, and it may actually make you worse or kill you in your situation, but what the heck, Dr. Trump likes it. If you die, you die. You are sick anyway so let's just roll the dice. I'm not the one dying, so I'm gonna promote it. Who needs facts, science, proof, testing anyway... it's just swamp creature stuff. "

[OKC Guy]

We have to open the economy within 2-3 weeks.

One silver lining is a lot of the new unemployment numbers are basically temporary furloughs. As part of stimulus the Feds will pay $600 per week for unemployment. OK pays around $350. So combined per week its $950 which comes to $23.75/hr. A lot of workers will make money to not work. Companies will preserve cash flow. Companies are taking advantage of this by offering workers to take off for 3 or 4 weeks and instead of permanent layoffs these are temporary. The key is getting businesses opened up quickly. But the Fed package is helping preserve business cash flow. Not in all cases but quite a few

[Bill Robertson]

How would you feel telling a dying person "Sorry you can't get this treatment that might actually work because we're trying something that we know doesn't, just in case it's different this time!"

So, you know of something currently available that does absolutely work?

[OKC Guy]

That the models used to justify our response were off by more than an order of magnitude means that we over responded by more than an order of magnitude.

Time to move to the kind of response merited by a 50k death pandemic, not a 2.5M death pandemic.

[Pete]

Numbers just updated for Friday:

[OKC Talker]

So, you know of something currently available that does absolutely work?

You know what absolutely works? How about spending the hundreds of millions of dollars that have padded the pockets of pharmaceutical companies on widespread testing to find asymptomatic carriers of covid-19 and prevent further spread. If you really want a magical solution, get those people to donate blood plasma that could save the lives of patients that were more severely affected. Publicity and resources could and should have been redirected into better planning and using the Defense Production Act to fix supply chain issues with medical devices and speed up the production of more promising treatments. Instead we get the "bread and circuses" of cloth face masks and hydroxychloroquine to appease the people and gaslight them into thinking everything is under control...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-1-study-says

https://www.wsj.com/articles/health-...ad-11586511004

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-b...lescent-plasma

[Bill Robertson]

You know what absolutely works? How about spending the hundreds of millions of dollars that have padded the pockets of pharmaceutical companies on widespread testing to find asymptomatic carriers of covid-19 and prevent further spread. If you really want a magical solution, get those people to donate blood plasma that could save the lives of patients that were more severely affected. Publicity and resources could and should have been redirected into better planning and using the Defense Production Act to fix supply chain issues with medical devices and speed up the production of more promising treatments. Instead we get the "bread and circuses" of cloth face masks and hydroxychloroquine to appease the people and gaslight them into thinking everything is under control...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-1-study-says

https://www.wsj.com/articles/health-...ad-11586511004

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-b...lescent-plasma

I’m not talking about what should have been done. Or what should be done now and in the future for a permanent solution. And I’m not interested in pointing fingers at any person or entity. I’m just saying that if I’m in ICU and I’m likely to die in the next few days that I don’t have time to wait for even the fastest tried and true solution. I would want to try anything with any possibility of working.

[dankrutka]

For those that keep discussing "opening up the economy," what does that mean? It's not something you just do. It requires a massive re-mobilization and re-organization of society. Unfortunately, like everything else, the federal government seems to have no actual plan for what this will look like. Other countries that are more organized than us have plans and are implementing them. What does ours look like? That's the point I've been trying to make about masks + tests + social distancing + (add other things here - temperature testing or GPS COVID-19 tracking), etc. Without a good plan, we could be back to quarantining within a month of opening things up as cases explode again.

Here is a rather depressing article on the challenge of "opening the economy"*: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/10/212154...n-unemployment

*Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I'm saying there has to be an incredibly detailed plan for doing it.

[Pete]

^

It's really up to governors and mayors to lift restrictions.

But even then, it's up to individual businesses and schools to decide.


So, when we are ready, it's going to be a very gradual thing, no matter what the federal gov may say.

[PhiAlpha]

We have to open the economy within 2-3 weeks.

One silver lining is a lot of the new unemployment numbers are basically temporary furloughs. As part of stimulus the Feds will pay $600 per week for unemployment. OK pays around $350. So combined per week its $950 which comes to $23.75/hr. A lot of workers will make money to not work. Companies will preserve cash flow. Companies are taking advantage of this by offering workers to take off for 3 or 4 weeks and instead of permanent layoffs these are temporary. The key is getting businesses opened up quickly. But the Fed package is helping preserve business cash flow. Not in all cases but quite a few

That's the hope, though they won't be temporary if the businesses cease to exist or revenue is too low over the next year for those business to bring them back.

[PhiAlpha]

Or how about "we're giving you this even though we really haven't tested it and have no real evidence it works, and it may actually make you worse or kill you in your situation, but what the heck, Dr. Trump likes it. If you die, you die. You are sick anyway so let's just roll the dice. I'm not the one dying, so I'm gonna promote it. Who needs facts, science, proof, testing anyway... it's just swamp creature stuff. "

It obviously isn't just Trump saying it works...several doctors and medical professionals have tried it and generally have said it helps as well. Just keep going acting like he's the only one saying it may help Covid patients though...because its convenient for you.

[PhiAlpha]

I’m not talking about what should have been done. Or what should be done now and in the future for a permanent solution. And I’m not interested in pointing fingers at any person or entity. I’m just saying that if I’m in ICU and I’m likely to die in the next few days that I don’t have time to wait for even the fastest tried and true solution. I would want to try anything with any possibility of working.

Yes, exactly.

[OKC Talker]

I’m not talking about what should have been done. Or what should be done now and in the future for a permanent solution. And I’m not interested in pointing fingers at any person or entity. I’m just saying that if I’m in ICU and I’m likely to die in the next few days that I don’t have time to wait for even the fastest tried and true solution. I would want to try anything with any possibility of working.

Got it, I'll direct the naturopaths, faith healers, and voodoo priestesses to your room.

You may still want to read those links, I'm betting you'll agree with them more than you think.

[Rover]

Yes, exactly.

That's great until you die and the family sues you for using a drug not approved for treating that condition. May as well try lysol or anything else a non doctor suggests.

[David]

I just saw some stats from Twitter (so grain of salt, etc) that based on data from OpenTable they can tell that lots of people started social distancing from before the official orders came down. Just telling everyone "shows over, go back to work" may not do much if a large portion of the population is still trying to not die from this.

My immediate boss is 70, he's going to keep working from home regardless of when the rest of us are allowed back, and I suspect there's going to be many, many more people like him.

[Rover]

That's great until you die and the family sues you for using a drug not approved for treating that condition. May as well try lysol or anything else a non doctor suggests.

By the way, one nutso online has people drinking silver. LOL. FDA has sent a cease and desist.

[AP]

I just saw some stats from Twitter (so grain of salt, etc) that based on data from OpenTable they can tell that lots of people started social distancing from before the official orders came down. Just telling everyone "shows over, go back to work" may not do much if a large portion of the population is still trying to not die from this.

My immediate boss is 70, he's going to keep working from home regardless of when the rest of us are allowed back, and I suspect there's going to be many, many more people like him.

I've suspected that was the case. I know my company had us working from home long before it was mandated. Not a chance I'm sitting down in a restaurant dining room for a while regardless of what the current orders are.

[AP]

By the way, one nutso online has people drinking silver. LOL. FDA has sent a cease and desist.

Might as well try it! It just may work!

[BoulderSooner]

How would you feel telling a dying person "Sorry you can't get this treatment that might actually work because we're trying something that we know doesn't, just in case it's different this time!"

this didn't age well

https://www.mediterranee-infection.c...ACT-v-2-GB.pdf

[OKC Talker]

this didn't age well

https://www.mediterranee-infection.c...ACT-v-2-GB.pdf

You may want to keep reading:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/...g-coronavirus/

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...ovid-19-2020-4

https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-hydroxy...ithout-1496736