Convention Center

[warreng88]

Now the big question comes what can be done with the ES petition to get a revote after we are already set to finalize the design and secure the property? Is the council just moving over it knowing it has no legs to stand on? I would think if there was a real threat, this process would be postponed a little.

[Pete]

I like this plan, especially preserving the connection between the Myriad Gardens and Central Park.

Really, the only thing that will be above ground other than the hotel is the ballroom.

The entire exhibit hall will be subterranean, and that will include future expansion. Loading docks will be underground as well.

[catch22]

Now the big question comes what can be done with the ES petition to get a revote after we are already set to finalize the design and secure the property? Is the council just moving over it knowing it has no legs to stand on? I would think if there was a real threat, this process would be postponed a little.

Why? Until the voters tell the city otherwise, this should continue to move forward as planned. There is no reason to stop/slow a project based on the future outcome of a petition which may or may not even come to pass.

[shawnw]

I have to say, I mostly like it. Probably the best we could do with this site without it being a monolithic superblock... and we get boulevard street interaction!

[Just the facts]

50 feet below ground? That may not be the best idea in Oklahoma. Just a thought.

They better make a cistern at the bottom.

[soonerguru]

It seems like good land use, though one wonders how long the "expansion lots" will be there.

[warreng88]

Didn't ES plan on getting 6,000 signatures to make the city hold a special election to have a revote for the convention center since "we weren't given all the information about the hotel and phase 2" before it went to a vote of the people? I am not saying I agree, in fact, I am on the complete opposite end that I disagree and think we need this CC more than any other MAPS3 project, I am just curious about how they are going to move forward if they authorize the plans and the land is purchased, then the city goes to a revote on the CC a year from now. If it passes again, nothing has changed. If it fails, then we have a super block and a half sitting empty in city hands with no funding to build anything on them.

[shawnw]

I know people hate the underground, but it might not be a bad idea to run a tunnel (leave it sealed off and unfinished, but pour the concrete) down the west side of hudson from Main street, and then to the convention center site, while that site, the preftakes block, and the stage center block are being demoed. That way we don't have to tear too many things up in the future if we want to eventually dig a tunnel across from Devon (to connect with their skybridge) and finish out the tunnels to give access from the conv center to the rest of the system. The side benefit of this is that you could also connect the city offices on Main to this while you were at it so that they could eventually enjoy the underground connectivity. An alternative would be to build a connecting tunnel on the cox site whenever it's razed, but then you don't get that side benefit for the city offices.

[Pete]

^

The one really good thing the Underground does for downtown is to directly connect parking and office buildings.

It makes it easier to provide parking further away, which is important because we don't have any room to add garages in the middle of the CBD.

And as someone who worked downtown for eight years, there were many, many days where I was happy to be able to take the Underground between my offices and my parking space.

[hoya]

The MAPS 3 Board will meet 3/27/14 to consider approval for the final conceptual design.

Some highlights:

For some reason, your images don't like to show up on my office computer.

[Just the facts]

^

The one really good thing the Underground does for downtown is to directly connect parking and office buildings.

That is not a good thing. It robs street front retailers of foot traffic that they 100% depend on.

[David]

Yeah, I like these renderings. I think I posted a page or two ago about the park connection, and it looks like that idea is still nicely in play.

The 160k/200k/300k/330k numbers, are those indicating the sq. ft. size of the exhibit hall if they build it out to those various sizes?

[Plutonic Panda]

I know people hate the underground, but it might not be a bad idea to run a tunnel (leave it sealed off and unfinished, but pour the concrete) down the west side of hudson from Main street, and then to the convention center site, while that site, the preftakes block, and the stage center block are being demoed. That way we don't have to tear too many things up in the future if we want to eventually dig a tunnel across from Devon (to connect with their skybridge) and finish out the tunnels to give access from the conv center to the rest of the system. The side benefit of this is that you could also connect the city offices on Main to this while you were at it so that they could eventually enjoy the underground connectivity. An alternative would be to build a connecting tunnel on the cox site whenever it's razed, but then you don't get that side benefit for the city offices.

I agree with you.

[Urban Pioneer]

The Underground needs to be done with. We need more street activity and obviously the streetcar needs riders. Ridership directly correlates to diversified economic activity for shops along the route and for Bricktown.

If there is any one big failure in Oklahoma City regarding land use and pedestrian activity, it is that we throw every tool in the box at connectivity. IE- excessively wide roads, high speed limits, parking garages everywhere, parking lots near front doors, the Underground, and generally just spreading things too far apart. Blair Humphreys and I were talking about this some months ago. If there is anyone thing that we both lament, it is the lack of a "great street" with true 24 hour urban pedestrian activity. Arguably, Broadway/Auto Alley might get that way with the parking changes, Metropolitan, and so forth, but why can't we do that on more streets?

Enough with wide roads. Enough with excessive parking. Enough with spreading everything apart... Embrace the streetcar, sidewalks, and develop meaningful, expressive, and energetic corridors full of activity that will make our city truly vibrant.

[Pete]

Yeah, I like these renderings. I think I posted a page or two ago about the park connection, and it looks like that idea is still nicely in play.

The 160k/200k/300k/330k numbers, are those indicating the sq. ft. size of the exhibit hall if they build it out to those various sizes?

Yes, those would be the future expansion options.

[catch22]

The Underground needs to be done with. We need more street activity and obviously the streetcar needs riders. Ridership directly correlates to diversified economic activity for shops along the route and for Bricktown.

If there is any one big failure in Oklahoma City regarding land use and pedestrian activity, it is that we throw every tool in the box at connectivity. IE- excessively wide roads, high speed limits, parking garages everywhere, parking lots near front doors, the Underground, and generally just spreading things too far apart. Blair Humphreys and I were talking about this some months ago. If there is anyone thing that we both lament, it is the lack of a "great street" with true 24 hour urban pedestrian activity. Arguably, Broadway/Auto Alley might get that way with the parking changes, Metropolitan, and so forth, but why can't we do that on more streets?

Enough with wide roads. Enough with excessive parking. Enough with spreading everything apart... Embrace the streetcar, sidewalks, and develop meaningful, expressive, and energetic corridors full of activity that will make our city truly vibrant.

Knocked it out of the ballpark. Excellent post.

[OKCRT]

Knocked it out of the ballpark. Excellent post.

Yes yes...Yay for everything except underground. Underground is not a good idea in Okc. Build it up to the sky I say! Seriously,being underground in Ok. is only good when a tornado is coming at you.

Why would they want to take people off the streets and have them underground? Make no sense to me.

[Spartan]

I know people hate the underground, but it might not be a bad idea to run a tunnel (leave it sealed off and unfinished, but pour the concrete) down the west side of hudson from Main street, and then to the convention center site, while that site, the preftakes block, and the stage center block are being demoed. That way we don't have to tear too many things up in the future if we want to eventually dig a tunnel across from Devon (to connect with their skybridge) and finish out the tunnels to give access from the conv center to the rest of the system. The side benefit of this is that you could also connect the city offices on Main to this while you were at it so that they could eventually enjoy the underground connectivity. An alternative would be to build a connecting tunnel on the cox site whenever it's razed, but then you don't get that side benefit for the city offices.

All of these sites are already connected in the best possible way: streets, which we've invested in.

[Plutonic Panda]

The Underground needs to be done with. We need more street activity and obviously the streetcar needs riders. Ridership directly correlates to diversified economic activity for shops along the route and for Bricktown.

If there is any one big failure in Oklahoma City regarding land use and pedestrian activity, it is that we throw every tool in the box at connectivity. IE- excessively wide roads, high speed limits, parking garages everywhere, parking lots near front doors, the Underground, and generally just spreading things too far apart. Blair Humphreys and I were talking about this some months ago. If there is anyone thing that we both lament, it is the lack of a "great street" with true 24 hour urban pedestrian activity. Arguably, Broadway/Auto Alley might get that way with the parking changes, Metropolitan, and so forth, but why can't we do that on more streets?

Enough with wide roads. Enough with excessive parking. Enough with spreading everything apart... Embrace the streetcar, sidewalks, and develop meaningful, expressive, and energetic corridors full of activity that will make our city truly vibrant.

I disagree man.

[Mississippi Blues]

I disagree man.

Why?

[soonerguru]

I disagree man.

I disagree with you, man.

[CaptDave]

I disagree with you, man.

I agree with your disagreement. Man.

[shawnw]

The Underground needs to be done with. We need more street activity and obviously the streetcar needs riders. Ridership directly correlates to diversified economic activity for shops along the route and for Bricktown.

If there is any one big failure in Oklahoma City regarding land use and pedestrian activity, it is that we throw every tool in the box at connectivity. IE- excessively wide roads, high speed limits, parking garages everywhere, parking lots near front doors, the Underground, and generally just spreading things too far apart. Blair Humphreys and I were talking about this some months ago. If there is anyone thing that we both lament, it is the lack of a "great street" with true 24 hour urban pedestrian activity. Arguably, Broadway/Auto Alley might get that way with the parking changes, Metropolitan, and so forth, but why can't we do that on more streets?

Enough with wide roads. Enough with excessive parking. Enough with spreading everything apart... Embrace the streetcar, sidewalks, and develop meaningful, expressive, and energetic corridors full of activity that will make our city truly vibrant.

Just to be clear, I'm in agreement with you 98% of the time. I'm a huge transit and walking advocate and can't wait until we have a system that gets me everywhere I need to go so I don't have to care about owning a car. I walk many miles a day downtown (yesterday I walked from home [5th/Hudson] to 9th/Broadway to Deep Deuce to Bricktown to the CBD to home. However, I do think there is a place for cars and even a (very limited) place for the underground. I didn't used to feel that way until experiencing a winter downtown while walking everywhere. I will always default to the street. But it's proven nice to not have to walk outside in subzero windchills (though I did walk home in -10 from a Thunder game as it was after hours for the Underground [the nearest access point is two blocks from where I live]). All of that said, if we didn't have an Underground, I wouldn't advocate for creating one. I was simply saying since we have one, and since it is convenient and useful, that IF we were ever going to expand it, the best time would be while all those blocks were being razed, for efficiency and cost savings and such.

Sorry to throw the thread off topic so much! Yay more walkable Convention Center plan with good street interaction!

[jccouger]

Oklahoma's weather is too extreme to not appreciate the underground. It also helps with companies leasing space in multiple buildings downtown. Like ShawnW said before me, if we didn't already have one I don't think anybody would want to make the case to build it, but since we have it its nothing but a positive in my opinion.

[Plutonic Panda]

I disagree with you, man.

you don't even know why or what exactly I disagree with, but alright. I'll expand a little later. Not going to get too into it because I know most here are anti-large highway, anti six-lane roads, and pretty much anti-anything that doesn't doesn't give people walking around the first priority.