Penn Square Mall

[David]

Renovations needed or not, I've been to PSM recently a few times for some walking not out in the heat, and I am quite impressed how busy it is these days. Just packed with people.

Edit: that said, I think they could do an absolute home run with structured parking built on some of their lots and apartments on a few more of them. Maybe once OAK is up and running the mall might see some possibilities with the land they have to work with.

[Pete]

That mall stays very busy.

I live nearby and go by it quite often, and there are always tons of cars out front.

[Plutonic Panda]

Don't be ridiculous and so sensitive. Rennovations can mean many different things.

But,. you answered. It sounds more like you want additions on the premises an not necessarily renovation of the mall itself, is that right? Or do you think it starts with re-doing the common area décor? Are you advocating re-facing the outside surfaces?

Selling or leasing sites from the lots for hotels, offices etc. is a whole different issue. I would have to bring in a lot more money to the owners than the cost of building and maintaining structured parking. I don't believe they are in the hotel, apartment business, so I would imagine long term land leases would be the best possibility. Do you know if there is enough demand in the area for that?

Sorry I didn’t mean to come off with a harsh tone. What I mean is I just want to see more investments into the common areas of the mall. There’s some very nice stores coming in and they will only make the mall look more dated in contrast.

I would like a complete renovation(outside cladding included) and expansion with but that would likely be north of a quarter billion and I’m trying to be somewhat realistic lol. If I’m in Simcity builder mode the parking lots fronting NWE and the ones along that creek(the Deep Fork?) are prime candidates for development. It’d be nice to see a Bloomingdale’s or Nieman Marcus included in an addition. Believe it or not but IMO the Dillards at PS competes with those stores as far as furnishings go minus the high end designer names. Sometimes I don’t think we give Dillards enough credit for how nice they made that store in PS.

[David]

Does anyone know if Simon Malls has done any Mall to Mall + Housing/Lifestyle Center conversions like what Panda is talking about?

[Plutonic Panda]

That mall stays very busy.

I live nearby and go by it quite often, and there are always tons of cars out front.

Pete, is that Korean hotdog place still on track? I’ll certainly add to traffic counts in the mall if it ever opens.

[Pete]

Pete, is that Korean hotdog place still on track? I’ll certainly add to traffic counts in the mall if it ever opens.

The space is still boarded up and the mall website says "coming soon".

[onthestrip]

Does anyone know if Simon Malls has done any Mall to Mall + Housing/Lifestyle Center conversions like what Panda is talking about?

No specific example but many mall owners, Im sure Simon included, have added housing to mall parking lots to utilize unused space and reinvigorate the mall. Just like Quail adding Lifetime Fitness, they also have room to add housing if they wanted. Not so sure about examples of overhauling enclosed malls to lifestyle malls but probably is happening at some underperforming malls.

[Rover]

Sorry I didn’t mean to come off with a harsh tone. What I mean is I just want to see more investments into the common areas of the mall. There’s some very nice stores coming in and they will only make the mall look more dated in contrast.

I would like a complete renovation(outside cladding included) and expansion with but that would likely be north of a quarter billion and I’m trying to be somewhat realistic lol. If I’m in Simcity builder mode the parking lots fronting NWE and the ones along that creek(the Deep Fork?) are prime candidates for development. It’d be nice to see a Bloomingdale’s or Nieman Marcus included in an addition. Believe it or not but IMO the Dillards at PS competes with those stores as far as furnishings go minus the high end designer names. Sometimes I don’t think we give Dillards enough credit for how nice they made that store in PS.

Surrounding the mall with parking garages at the street would make it look more like North Park in Dallas, which is pretty ugly from most angles (imho).... all you see are ugly parking garages. In that case, re-facing the exterior would likely be unnecessary except at the few main entrances. I personally think North Park as a mall is very uninviting from the outside but does have office buildings and parking garages surrounding it.

[Rover]

No specific example but many mall owners, Im sure Simon included, have added housing to mall parking lots to utilize unused space and reinvigorate the mall. Just like Quail adding Lifetime Fitness, they also have room to add housing if they wanted. Not so sure about examples of overhauling enclosed malls to lifestyle malls but probably is happening at some underperforming malls.

I doubt Lifetime adds any traffic to QS. It has it's own parking and was done after tearing out part of the mall in the first place. There is no inviting path from one to the other. It didn't reinvigorate the mall, just added density to the parking area.

[PhiAlpha]

Surrounding the mall with parking garages at the street would make it look more like North Park in Dallas, which is pretty ugly from most angles (imho).... all you see are ugly parking garages. In that case, re-facing the exterior would likely be unnecessary except at the few main entrances. I personally think North Park as a mall is very uninviting from the outside but does have office buildings and parking garages surrounding it.

Do you mean the Galleria? North Park isn’t really surrounded by parking garages but the Galleria is.

[Rover]

Do you mean the Galleria? North Park isn’t really surrounded by parking garages but the Galleria is.

You are correct..I misspoke. Galleria.

[bombermwc]

Does anyone here really want anything else in the parking lot of Penn Square causing even more congestion? The place is ridiculous as it is with their tiny parking spaces. If you add residential, I mean which view is better, the cars on NW Xway or the creek behind the mall? To me, i think i'd rather be in the back so its quieter and i have the whole mall to block noise. But that's where the driving space is the least accessible because there's less room. I certainly wouldn't want an apartment that my view ends up being Macy's.

Look at a lot for a Mills mall, say Grapevine, you have PLENTY of room to do this stuff. Crossroads even. But Penn, nope. It was a small lot to begin with and they kept cutting parts out for the bank/Cheesecake/Container/Whiskey/etc. Drives me personally batty. Partly because of this, i do everything possible to never visit PSM for anything. I'd rather sweat/freeze my you know what off at the Outlet mall than deal with the parking lot at Penn.

[David]

I doubt Lifetime adds any traffic to QS. It has it's own parking and was done after tearing out part of the mall in the first place. There is no inviting path from one to the other. It didn't reinvigorate the mall, just added density to the parking area.

The inviting part is subjective, but there absolutely is a path between QS and Lifetime. See: https://goo.gl/maps/shfKJvfKb1Y2qFHBA

[Rover]

The inviting part is subjective, but there absolutely is a path between QS and Lifetime. See: https://goo.gl/maps/shfKJvfKb1Y2qFHBA

Yes it is technically a path there .... maybe even without dodging cars. But I seriously doubt anyone thinks this ties the two together and that there is traffic from one to the other....either way.

[onthestrip]

Yes it is technically a path there .... maybe even without dodging cars. But I seriously doubt anyone thinks this ties the two together and that there is traffic from one to the other....either way.

Maybe, but I seriously doubt the crossover traffic is zero. It is a benefit for the mall for Lifetime to be there. No real reason it isnt.

[Zorba]

Maybe, but I seriously doubt the crossover traffic is zero. It is a benefit for the mall for Lifetime to be there. No real reason it isnt.

Yeah, when we were Life Time members we went to the mall more often. Not daily or anything, but when you are right there 3 or 4 days a week you think up reasons to go over there.

[HangryHippo]

A LifeTime @ Penn would kill it. I’d love that.

[Zorba]

A LifeTime @ Penn would kill it. I’d love that.

Almost 0% chance of that happening.

[Pete]

Korean street food vendor opens in Penn Square

Korean street food vendor Oh!K-dog has opened in Penn Square Mall

[prbreak][/prbreak]

They serve a variety of Korean rice hotdogs, egg toast, mochi donuts, and fruit drinks.

Sbarro has also opened in the mall as has Spunkies Soul Food.

[HOT ROD]

nice offerings,

have to wonder if spunkies will survive, prices seem a bit stiff for soul food. ...

[Jeepnokc]

nice offerings,

have to wonder if spunkies will survive, prices seem a bit stiff for soul food. ...

My wife and I commented on the same thing, No entrees or baskets below $10.50 is steep for walk up mall food court

[citywokchinesefood]

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

[barrettd]

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

If anything, I would expect to overpay for food at the mall, so yeah high food prices at the mall shouldn't be a surprise. But high prices of restaurants, specifically, are sometimes vital to the discussion when deciding whether to try a new place, for instance. General complaining, not so much.

[BoulderSooner]

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

all of this ..

[Jersey Boss]

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

Within a few months the market will be the final arbiter
on pricing and value.